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Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150

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Comments

  • triattriat Posts: 121
    but most didn't believe 27 years ago that new little Honda Accord & later a Toyota Camry would even sell. Let alone Japanese companies do so well in the U.S., on the big 3's own turf.

    I think Nissan will sell as many Titans as they can make. Right now this is a drop in the bucket to Ford, but I don't think Ford's millions mean success & quality. I admire quality over numbers. Nissan already expanding their production confirms I am not the only one.

    Nissan listened to potential customers and got so much right in just a matter of months! The big 3 should feel lucky Toyota didn't go after them head on at first, & that Nissan waited this long. Nissan has become innovative the last few years.

    I don't think it's Nissan's fault the big 3 left the market wanting when the big 3 had a monopoly on the market for decades? No matter whether Nissan sells only a 100,000 or 150,000 - the Titan is a success.

    Judging by all the adjustments Nissan has made with Titan, I'm pretty confident they'll work out some of the options snafu's later. Unfortunately higher manufacturing costs are directly proportionate to more options availability.
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    the initial estimates were 100k PER YEAR...not for '04. since the '04 model year is short, they will target 60k. the goal for 2005 is 100k, and 150k for 2006. the long term goal is to be the #3 light pickup manufacturer. overtaking ford and GM is not possible.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    >>>...Nissan will sell as many Titans as they can make. Right now this is a drop in the bucket to Ford...<<<

    Not really. Most Asian nameplates make a lot more off of each sale compared to Dodge, Ford, and GM. And that's from the time of manufacture to the time of sale. Chrysler, Ford and GM are constantly discounting product because of competition and to keep moving units. They have much larger manufacturing facilities and have a much higher break even point.

    Toyota and Nissan won't have this problem with trucks. They have intelligently geared production to a realistic projected market share. Their business success is not based on the assumption of market share, but on margins.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • I may not be a businessman, but it would seem to me that Nissan with less volume and two brand new factories (one for new v8 engine and one for titan/armada production) to pay for, as well as the expense of training all those new to the auto manufacturing industry Mississippians and Tennesseens would DECREASE Nissans Margins, especially when you take into account that Nissan is undercutting Ford on MSRP. Ford has the economies of scale on their side for controlling unit prices thanks to their volume.

    What is dragging Ford down is trying to keep up with GM, whose apparent new corporate goal is to sell as many vehicles as it takes to pay their pension fund. Ford will lose any incentive battle w/ GM especially since the new f150 is more expensive. Without the artificial demand GM is placing on the market with their heavy incentives, I think that the new f150 would be a runaway financial success for Ford. With the market as it is however I think Ford would be doing good just to match 2003's net profit.

    In my opintion the Titan is an excellent truck, but it won't hurt Ford like GM can.
  • As a buyer who was 105% sure that I was going to buy a Ram 1500 Hemi.. I met this Nissan Salesperson who said, "just come drive the Titan"..

    I now have a Radiant Silver CC LE in my driveway. This is not a truck in like an F-150 or Ram or Silverado. If you just drive this thing with an open mind you will discover a truly great cruising vessel. This is a vessel that will attract the non-typical truck crowd. I think that there are plenty of geeks like me who want a truck but don't really want a 'truck'..
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Sidenote:

    " since the new f150 is more expensive. "

    Actually, Ford has already stated they have balanced out the higher cost of the new F-150 and it's yielding the same profits as the previous versions. Mainly because of some cost restruction, supplier cost reductions, as well as 60% of the new F-150 being sold are the higher (more expensive) trim versions.
  • I hadn't heard that. That statement was based on early articles I read about the new f150 that said it was $500-$800 more expensive per model. do you think that ford will be able to maintain that 60% higher trim versions when the heritage model is discontinued? and did they go back and get better prices from their suppliers after getting the numbers back from their initial sales?
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    >>>...but it would seem to me that Nissan with less volume and two brand new factories (one for new v8 engine and one for titan/armada production) to pay for, as well as the expense of training all those new to the auto manufacturing industry Mississippians and Tennesseens would DECREASE Nissans Margins, especially when you take into account that Nissan is undercutting Ford on MSRP.<<<

    You're right, Ford does have the economy of scale on their side, but at predictably far less margin. It could very well be that Nissan makes as much profit on one Titan as Ford does on four F150s.

    As to the capital investment of Nissan, its a good point IF Nissan floated for capital the way Chrysler, Ford and GM usually do it. But expansion of Asian nameplates in North America has so far been done with non-financed capital expenditures, meaning Toyota, Nissan, Honda have paid (mostly) cash for any expansion. So they start new production by applying their margins -- ergo profits -- directly to the bottom line.

    You are also correct about squeezing suppliers, something that Chrysler, Ford and GM have become very good at. They also expect a higher defect rate when they do that. History of the Asian nameplates in the US indicates that they are far more careful in this respect than the native nameplates since they have also been far more intelligent in realizing it costs far more to fix a problem than to design reliability in to the product in the first place.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • Dusty,

    I just wanted to say thanks for the thoughtful reply. Where do you get your information about auto industry business practices? I am assuming you work/worked in the field for a while.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I'm aware of the topic of this thread, but I wonder if nobody thinks the Titan is going to make a hit on the Silverado, and why that doesn't seem to come up? How many Tundra sales will be disintermediated with the Titan introduction? And what about Dodge? Personally, I think their exterior appearance is tops, but hate the rubbermaid (typical Dodge) interior look and materials, and that would be a deal breaker. Are they going to suffer sales to the Titan? Or are there only 2 trucks on the market now, the F-150 & the Titan? Why would Ford take all the damage from this new competitor?
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    I worked for GM in the '60s. I was a field representative for Buick, then went to Rochester Products Div. working for a fuel systems design team. I did automotive repair for private companies and I later worked in fleet management.

    Best regards,
    Dusty
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    I'm not sure anyone actually suggested that Ford would take "all the damage" from Titan competition, at least that I can remember. Now being that the title of this thread is "Titan vs. F150," please don't be surprized if some over-zealous Nissan type wouldn't be attracted to it, or for that matter, some over-zealous Ford person here to protect "the name."

    The entry of the Titan will serve more to put Chrysler, Ford and GM on notice that resting on brand name laurels and loyal name-loving customers will not secure market share.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I'm never surprised, Dusty!
  • bmwdougbmwdoug Posts: 248
    Well, hmmm, do we have Zealots? Hey, if the Titan is a better truck, it is a better truck, no matter the number of Titans on the road. Is is a better truck, I don't know. I have not learned enough about it or the competition to make that decision. But, again, if it turns out to be better then the competition, then the sales numbers are irrelevant!

    BMW has about 1 to 3 % of the total automotive market, yet their cars are considered to be the best by most publications. Same with Mercedez, Lexus, etc... And, look at the computer world. Apple's Macintosh has about 5 % of the market, but is considered by many publications and users to be the best, most elegant computer system on the market. So, numbers mean nothing, it is what the Truck can do.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    I absolutely agree that sales has nothing to do with what defines a good product. But the issue here has been cluttered with the talk of brand loyalsts, some who are the prisoners of their own mind.

    If the Titan is a good product, it is because of intelligent engineering, attention to detail and careful execution. Not just because its a Nissan.

    I would hate to see the promise of the Titan be sadly overwhelmed by the Chevrolet-like attitude of owner superiority. And if the Titan fulfills the initial promise, I think the good folks who designed and built the Titan will proudly feel the same way.

    Dusty
  • triattriat Posts: 121
    is because for years Ford F150 "is the best selling truck"(how many hundreds of times have we seen this advertised?). The entire FoMoCo is depending on this new F150 to stop the bleeding. Both the F150 & Titan came out at the same time(same design & model year cycle). The Ram has been out 2 years, the C1500 longer..

    And finally there's the Goliath on home turf vs. David who is not only little, he's just an upstart. As pointed out several times, while in this story David will not bring Goliath down, he is giving old Goliath a lesson in his own game. It's nice to see underdogs succeed....

    Now I'm heading downtown for the raising of the Star! Happy New Years!!
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    One of the things working against Ford, in terms of costs, is the fact that the full-size pickups share so little between the various models.

    It used to be that a Ford Bronco, F-150, F-250 & F-350 shared many of the same body parts,; such as fenders, doors, hoods, grilles, dashboards, etc. Not so anymore: The new F-150 shares very little with the Super Duty models, the Expedition, or the Excursion. All those "different" parts costs in terms of engineering, manufacture and inventory. GM, Dodge, Toyota and Nissan do not have this problem.

    I thought Ford was stupid to take this approach several years ago. Today I'm convinced of it. If the new F-150 and Super Duty shared the same body parts, as does the Dodge Ram et al, the F-150's MSRP could be much lower.

    Bob
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    the super duty (f250 and up) fords have made more money for ford since the redesign than they have spent in products. its their actual cash cow. ford sells more super duty pickups now than they do f150s. and there is a HUGE profit margin in each one.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    Then make the F-150s look exactly like the Super Duty models, and save all the extra costs associated with two completely different cabs&#151;double engineering and design costs&#151;double parts inventory&#151;and double everything else that's associated with having two completely different cabs.

    I'm convinced that if the F-150 shared the same cab and front end styling as the Super Duties, the F-150's MSRP would be lower because it would be cheaper to produce. I also bet the profit-laden Super Duties would be even more profitable because of they too would be less expensive to manufacture.

    Bob
This discussion has been closed.