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Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150

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Comments

  • dave989dave989 Posts: 21
    All the Big 6 are all under cost pressures right now in order to retain(or gain) marketshare.
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    Don't sell very well outside North America. Go to Europe or Asia and see if you can find any F-150 or for that matter any other full size trucks. What is strange is Ford + Lincoln + Volvo + Mercury + Jaguar + Aston Martin + Range Rover < Toyota. I wouldn't brag too much if I tripled my sale in Russia. Very few people in Russia actually own private automobile let along foreign ones. Ford's holier than thou attitude has gotten them in the mess they are in today. They should be ashamed that a foreign car company is sticking it to them
  • jrc346jrc346 Posts: 337
    Before you start chiseling out Fords head stone, it has been America's top selling brand for the past 17 years! Hardly supporting your claim of Ford's last breaths.
    The Ford Escape was last years best selling small SUV, while the Explorer was last years best selling mid-size SUV.
    The Ford Econoline was last years best selling Full-size van, the Ranger was best selling small pickup, and the F-150 was the best selling truck and vehicle.
    Woe are these days at Ford.
  • Has anyone thought about how the soft dollar relative to international currency's has affected the full size pickup wars?

    Between that and cash rebates how does Nissan respond?

    thanks
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    I am not chiseling out Ford's headstone, they have been doing that themselves for a long time now . I hope the executives at Ford are not in a delusional state of denial like you, jrc346. Did you read that NY Times article I linked up? Obviously you haven't.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Adding to the list...The Mustang was the best selling sports coupe. Ford has the highest sales of station wagons (Focus/Taurus/Sable). Ford is the #1 seller of RWD vehicles. The F-150 was not only the best selling vehicle in the U.S., but in the world actually. The Ford Focus was the #1 selling passenger car in the world.

    Now, pertaining to corporate arrogance from an automaker, Nissan was mentioned by a statement Carlos Ghosn made.

    Titled: Will success breed arrogance at Toyota? Only time will tell

    http://www.detnews.com/2004/insiders/0401/10/c01-31225.htm

    "So, I asked Nissan Motor Co. CEO Carlos Ghosn, what do you think of all these cars coming from Detroit?

    &#147;It&#146;s a good start,&#148; he replied simply. Then he extolled the virtues of his full-size Titan pickup truck as the best on the market and made pretty clear that Detroit&#146;s ballyhooed &#147;year of the car&#148; doesn&#146;t look as impressive as the local automakers think. "

    AGG,

    "Has anyone thought about how the soft dollar relative to international currency's has affected the full size pickup wars?"

    Japan purposely undervalues their yen to increase it's profits on exports. Japan sold a record 20 trillion yen in 2003, a strategy that slowed the yen's rise against the dollar to around 10% for the year, and they have spent around 3 trillion Yen on interventions a week ago, to prevent the yen from sinking below 106 yen.

    Japanese manufacturer's were profiting around $2000-3000 per vehicle because their government was braking WTO rules and kept yen low. Because this issue came up in the last WTO meeting, the world community is keeping a closer eye on Japan, while they are trying their hardest to keep the yen low, BUT it's going up....
  • What I'm saying is Ford isn't just treading water, it's actually on a rebound. Just take a look at it's financials, and at all the great vehicles out and on the way. I know we are Americans, and the USA is a big market, but you have to think and look bigger. As a whole Ford is doing pretty darn good, and is definitely on the rise, not fall you claim.

    Also you NYTimes link required me to create a membership to view your article. Sorry, but I don't care to sign up for that. Why don't you paraphrase what was so important for us?

    BTW, you're right, the full size may not sell as well outside of the states, but you can bet the compact trucks do. Asia, south america, africa, they all love the Ranger. Anyway, you're most entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't make you right... :P
  • You can't post copywrited material.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,871
    And posting something multiple times doesn't get you anywhere either...If you want people to see an article that was in the NY Times, post a link to the article. Please do not cut and paste copyrighted materials into Town Hall. Thanks!

    PF Flyer
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  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    I didn't intend to post it multiple times. I clicked "post my message" twice by mistake.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,871
    Just be careful in the future!

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    Need help navigating? pf_flyer@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
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  • jrc346jrc346 Posts: 337
    Well thanks for the good laugh. Funny how you can say such things to someone you have never met before, isn't it? I had a feeling that you would fall to a level of desperacy and put downs, but by saying that I am delusionsal and in denial none the less. I guess that's all you have to hold on to keep your phantasm true for you. I am by no means an expert on the automotive industry, but what goes on in it is a personal hobby, and I know enough to know that Ford is not by any means dying.

    BTW, I read the NYT article. In fact I get a copy of the New York Times free at work every morning ;-)
    What I don't understand is what in there makes you think that Ford is doing so bad? Them turning a profit for the first time in two years? Bill Ford himself saying that the size of the company doesn't matter as long as they put out quality products? Or is it what is said at the end of the article saying how this (Toyota becoming #2 in world sales) most defiantly is NOT the end of the big three?
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    GM is still the largest car company in the world and probably stay so for the forseeable future. But you are kidding yourself if you think the financial situation of the big three is huny dorey. If you really read the article you should have read the fact that GM and Ford is not making any profits from selling cars. Their pitiful profits mostly comes from financing cars. Although when you are giving 0% financing over five years I don't see how that is possible.
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    Wow - a lot of crap flying all over the place.

    Just a couple of comments about all the above posts.

    Ford is not dying! They have had some quality problems and Bill Ford is aware of it and is/has fixed it. At some point we might start seeing more mergers/aquisitions like Daimler-Chrysler only because there is a huge over supply of capacity in the world. Any of the Big six could be involved.

    The F-150 is not the sales leader, IMO, as it is semantics to say the Silverado/Sierra isn't the same vehicle. The GM twins outsold the F-150 last year. So, from my perspective, GM is the full sized truck leader - Sorry all you F-150 people who keep on claiming it as #1. If you don't agree, fine, it is MY opinion and sales fact that GM sold more full sized trucks than Ford.

    As to the F-150 being a good truck - I am sure it is. But, how much competition has it had? If you wanted a full-sized truck you bought A Ford, a GMC, or a Dodge, PERIOD. That changed in December when Nissan started selling the Titan and Toyota started selling a very limited Full size (Tundra DC). There just hasn't been anywhere near enough competition in this segment to say the F-150 is the most awesome vehicle because it sold so many. Look at the competition in Mid-sized cars - how many different kinds do you have to choose from?

    I was a huge Ford fan until the mid 90's when they started having huge quality problems with the Windstars, Taurus's etc... I have been watching what Bill Ford is doing closely and I think he is going in the right direction, but only time will tell.

    The last thing is Ford/GM/Chrysler is not in any danger from Nissan/Toyota in the near term of losing their sales leads. The total of all the f-series trucks sold last year was over 800,000. Many of those were 250s and 350s and configurations that Toyota and Nissan don't offer. Nissan and Toyota also don't have the capacity to put much of a dent in a market that had over 2.3 mil in sales last year. Down the road, who knows? If any of us do, we could make a fortune on the stocks!! :-)
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "Although when you are giving 0% financing over five years I don't see how that is possible."

    Not everyone qualifies for 0%, in fact, a small percentage actually qualify for that amount... The profits are made on those who get a higher percentage based on other issues/credit report.

    "Sorry all you F-150 people who keep on claiming it as #1. If you don't agree, fine, it is MY opinion and sales fact that GM sold more full sized trucks than Ford."

    Yes if you count the Sierra and Silverado together, they did sell more than the F-150, BUT if you wish to tally it that way.. Then... The Taurus and Sable together, made the #1 seller, not the Accord or Camry. The Navi and Expedition is then #1 for fullsize SUV sales. The GrandMarquis/CrownVic/TownCar are then the best seller's for Fullsize cars. See the issue?
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    "Yes if you count the Sierra and Silverado together, they did sell more than the F-150, BUT if you wish to tally it that way.. Then... The Taurus and Sable together, made the #1 seller, not the Accord or Camry. The Navi and Expedition is then #1 for fullsize SUV sales. The GrandMarquis/CrownVic/TownCar are then the best seller's for Fullsize cars. See the issue?"

    Yup I see the issue and I always have, but I still believe that any twins should be counted together. In that vein, the Taurus/Sable would qualify, but the Crown Vic/Town car wouldn't. The price points/options have to be close to be considered a twin. eg. the Armada and the new QX wouldn't be considered twins.

    by the way, even counting the sable/taurus as one I don't think they sold as many as the Camry
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "The price points/options have to be close to be considered a twin. eg. the Armada and the new QX wouldn't be considered twins."

    According to who? That's why the industry doesn't count them if they share platforms. Just imagine if we were to count details such as those. For example, the Freestar uses a modified version of the Taurus, so could that be counted to? As in... what ARE the limits to where a platform strays from it's original.

    Then if we do similar price points, then why stop at just price points when a Camry can flunctuate from $18K-30K ? Or even the Avalon, since it's built on a Camry platform, but has a few other modifications. Would the AudiA4 be counted onto Passat's platform tallies since it's almost in the same neighborhood in pricing, but JUST not quite since some Audi A4's can tally up to $40K, or maybe the much more expensive S4 version?

    Would Ford's new Freestyle sales, be counted onto the 500/Montego totals since they share the same platform, but 2 are sedans, while another is a crossover? Could they be counted into the totals of the Volvo S60/S80/V70/XC70/XC90 since they all use Volvo's P2 platform?

    Toyota's Matrix sales are tallied into the Corolla sales since they share platform, even though the Matrix serves a different purpose altogether. Yet the Honda Elements sales are not tallied onto the Civic's sales, even though they share the same platform, and the concept is also different.

    So that raises numerous other issues and questions regarding individual sales, which is why the industry measures them by nameplate, and not platform sales.
  • biggie2biggie2 Posts: 45
    And what happened last year with the Sierra and Silverado will most likely not happen this year... Not putting any money down, but a lot of common sense
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    tempos and focuses (foci?)...

    ive owned 3 tempos, and had good luck with all 3. i own a 2003 focus, and so far its bulletproof. all the recalls were right after the initial launch. none for the last 3 model years.

    anyway...about the chevy/gmc...yes, they are the same truck...but a GMC buyer wont buy a chevy and vice-versa. so if you stopped making one or the other, the sales #'s wouldnt exactly merge. the explorer/mountaineer/aviator are the same, but ford doesnt count them together.
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    Like I said before - it is my opinion! - Ant - your arguments about the price points misses the point. I am talking about twins - not shared platforms or price. Price out each version of the Chevy/GMC and they are vitually the same with all options - Like the old Plymouth/ Dodge minivans. That is what I was saying. I also understand the industry wants to count your way and to each their own. I just choose to look at it as bogus. You don't have to - you can look at it the way you want.

    Bowke - yes they might lose some sales, but it is more dealer related than GMC people hating Chevys. Up here people buy GMC/Chevy based on which dealer they like/ don't like. Period. It could be different where you are from but if it is, it shows buyer ignorance as they are the same vehicle. If GM removed all GMC dealers they would probably remove a large part of GMC sales. Convert the GMC dealers to Chevy (or vice versa), like Chrysler did with plymouth, and they would lose some sales, but not a large part.

    Hey guys, these are just my feelings so take take a pill over them. I just don't think Ford should be touting so much about the F-150 being the best seller when there is a lot of other stuff they can strut about the F-150 :-)
  • biggie2biggie2 Posts: 45
    "Hey guys, these are just my feelings so take take a pill over them"

    And it is out job to knock some sense into you :)

    If you did not want us to argue over your statement then you shouldnt have posted it on a very public message board lol
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    " Ant - your arguments about the price points misses the point. I am talking about twins "

    My point was, what exactly signifies as "twins"... Is it a price point, is it a change of a grill, is it having 2 doors less? There's alot of descrepencies when it's measured as twins. The F-150 is the best selling vehicle in the world, even if your twins are measured together.

    But whichever method you use to classify them as twins and if such results come up with anything being higher selling than the F-150 and that is the result that makes you happy, then keep going with it.
  • biggie2biggie2 Posts: 45
    And it just doesnt make sense the way you want it to be. That means that all of the brand engineering going on over at GM should be counted as one vehicle. So that means the Century, Old Malibu, Alero, and Grand Am should all be counted as one vehicle? You can not just say that since the Sierra and Silverado are basically the same vehicle they should be counted together, but the Century, Alero, Malibu, and Grand Am shouldnt.

    If GM and Chevy really thought the Silverado could hold its own and get a #1 sales figure over te F-150, i am sure they would do so. They want that #1 sales figure, and if they can get it, they will...
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    It's not just Ford touting the F-150 sales status, it's an undisputed standard in the media too. They all say it, quote it, use it. I have always wondered about the Sierra/Silverado thing, but those who are in the business to count - think they're two separate trucks. Ford is happy to go along with it, and I don't blame them.
  • dave989dave989 Posts: 21
    If anything I think Toyota and Nissan are being the cocky ones with statements like "The Year of the car is a non-event" - Nissan CEO of americann branch. Thats the kind of attitude that winds you up in trouble and if Nissan keeps on having that kind of attitude theyll end up in the same water as the Big 3 were in during the 70's. They should learn from the past obviously the Big 3 are.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Yes - they're learning......slowly...
  • dave989dave989 Posts: 21
    Motown you should be thinking about the long term not just the short term when speaking about Ford. You might lose marketshare in the short-term as The [non-permissible content removed] Big 3 use there good name to sell cars ,but Fords plan is for in the long term you start taking small parts of marketshare back. As the customers start coming back people start paying more for a quality car. Fords simply engineering there new fleet of cars to embody 3 things Quality(from Mazda), Safety(from Volvo), and Styling(from all ford brands)
  • The main problem with Ford is that it doesn't make cars that people want to own. And I hate to say this but the "only" people who buy Ford are people who don't know any better. I have no doubt that Ford cars/trucks are getting better, but once you have driven a Accord/Camry why would you want to buy a Taurus. As for the Titan, it is far superior to the F150. When I first test drove a Titan, I took it to a Ford dealership to compare it against the F150. As soon as I got there, jaws dropped and people were staring at the Titan thinking, "What is this thing." As a matter of fact, a customer at the dealership who was shopping for a truck asked me how to get to the Nissan dealership because he would buy it "if it ran as good as it looked."
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    It is the American big three who is thinking about short term not the Japanese. You must be smoking something illegal or completely detached from the real world if you think otherwise. FORD IS HISTORY. THEY ALWAYS HAD AND ALWAYS WILL MAKE BAD CARS. Some of the most legendary lemons were made by Fords. No need go into details, the list is too long. Volvo used to be an outstanding car in the 1980s before the geniuses at Ford decided to acquire it. As for Mazda, it is ironic they have to learn from a Japanese car company out to put together a decent car. Mazda is only one third owned by Ford, so your claim that Ford "owns" Mazda is a bit of an exaggerations.

    Toyota is already thinking about long term. One result is the Toyota Prius. Lexus is coming out with the Lexus RX400H this, which will pair a V6 engine with the hybrid synergy drive. The combined drivetrain will produce 270 Hp, will get over 30 mpg, and go 0-60 in less than 8 seconds. If Ford ever can produce an SUV like that then they can legitimately claim they are trying hard. Ford cannot even play catchup let along recapture market share. What exactly do they have to offer? The Taurus oops I mean the Five Hundred? Freestar ( a rebadged Windstar with the same horrible engine)? FOUND ON THE ROAD DEAD sounds like a very good acronym for Ford. And one more thing; Ford Ranger is not the most popular pickup truck in the world. It is the Toyota Hilux (Tacoma). I have been all over Asia and I have yet to see a Ford Ranger. Halo cars like the GT or the new Mustang isn't going to improve Ford's bottom line.
This discussion has been closed.