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Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150

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  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    "As I said, it's a good first effort, better than Toyota did twice. I just don't see many around these parts, and I see tons of new F-150s everywhere I look. I see tons of new Rams around. That's all I'm saying."

    Cool - didn't mean to jump on you. I also think the F-150 is a very good truck. I just think Nissan one-upped them with a more advanced product. There are things better about the Ford and there are things better about the Titan. My only thing is Ford should have been able to outdo Nissan and they didn't. A friend who test drove the Ford said although it is better than the old Ford, it just didn't seem to be a big jump ahead like he thought it would.

    As to sales, it doesn't matter if Nissan built the best vehicle ever, it would take many years to start substantially hurting the sales of Ford or GM (maybe Dodge). The big three trucks are just to "apple pie" for two many Americans.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "And you also prove my point of double standard with your give Ford more time as they haven't got up to full production yet. My point was that Nissan hasn't got up to full production either."

    My mention of them not yet ramping up the other 3 factories wasn't a "Oh the sales are slow because they still have 2 more to go", it was with the intentions of just sharing. No "hidden agenda there".

    The double standard doesn't play when it's ONE factory going full speed (Titan's) which is easier to ramp up, over 4 different factories, in different states, ONE in another country having to change everything over, onto the new series.

    Ok, from the records I'm seeing, you want Jan-March sales?.... For 2001, 204,488 and 197,770
    for 2002. Compare it with these years Jan-Mar 209,021. This year's number's are still ahead than the year's you have mentioned.

    Now, I'm guessing your point is, going with the number's of 941K units sold, which were accomplished after 9-11. Which those rebates helped boost that years sales to 941K units.

    Now, I can tell you this much personally, Ford has made mention they wish to sell 1MIL units, for this year, but later re-assessed the situation and saw that might be a bit hard to reach because the factories have not yet gone full capacity. And they will have to run 3 shifts (overtime) to do so (the current one's are already on overtime). If it does happen, expect it for next year's number since not all factories are on-line.

    "Unfortunately for the old F-150 and the new F-150, Ford is losing market share, even this year when compared to 2001 and 2002!!! "

    Yes, that part is correct, If Johnny made and sold 3 kites, and Cindy made just 1, Johnny had 75% of the market. But if now Timmy is joining the market, and is making Kites and he has made/sold 1, now Johnny has just 60% of the market, because Timmy just joined in and the market has more products to sell. That doesn't take much common sense to see.

    But the truck segment is still growing, Johnny can produce 4-5 kites, and he still might not have the 75% market share he enjoyed, BUT it's 1-2 more units and PROFITS that he is enjoying.

    Class dismissed, cause I must retire and have dinner soon.
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    You must be looking at different #s. As to ramping up - Nissan has been increasing production each month - their sales are not below expectations but are right where they wanted them.

    "But the truck segment is still growing, Johnny can produce 4-5 kites, and he still might not have the 75% market share he enjoyed, BUT it's 1-2 more units and PROFITS that he is enjoying."

    Man you guys are die-hards - In order to sell that 1-2 more units, Johnny has cut his price (can you say rebates - I thought so!) so his profits end up being less and he isn't enjoying them as much as his investment has increased (business 101) so his return is less.

    Go eat supper and enjoy! I will contiue class on my terms as Ford cries the blues :-)
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    Sorry - I didn't go back far enough. silly me!
    2000 - 221,770 1999 - 213,910

    Then again, the increases of of 2004 over 2002, 2001 are sure not the same as over 2003 - which was my point in the first place. 2% and 6% in a growing market isn't something to write home about.

    Time for a beer. Ant have a good one! Cheers!
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "You must be looking at different #s. As to ramping up - Nissan has been increasing production each month - their sales are not below expectations but are right where they wanted them."

    I have at no time, questioned Nissan's sale. Nor am I going to hunt for them, since I don't CARE NOR, at any time have mentioned their number's since my point HAS NEVER BEEN, about number's, since ALL I posted recently, dealt with the awards the F-150 has received. The number's situation was something someone else had mentioned.

    Yes, for 2000-2001, the Jan-March number's were higher than for this Jan-March of 2004. The factories were running overtime those years, this year with only 2 fully ramped going overtime on 3 shifts, they can't make as much. But for those years, what's the point when the rest of the year's, the number's weren't as strong throughout.

    "Johnny has cut his price (can you say rebates - I thought so!) so his profits end up being less and he isn't enjoying them as much as his investment has increased (business 101) so his return is less."

    Johnny's kites are looking much better overall and he's offering more decorations with them....So the higher end (more profittable) kites are selling more so than the lower end kites. Johnny has special sales on the cheaper kites, but since the high end kites are making 70-80% of it's new sales, Johnny is enjoying a much better bottom line, than the previous year, where the higher end kites made only 43-50% of overall sales.

    Since Johnny's new kites have been phased in, he has been able to work with supplier to lower the cost of producing his kites. So he's now enjoying even more of a profit, to offset any rebates he might be placing on his kites. :-)
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Then why has Toyota tried twice to copy it almost exactly, with the Tundra, and why has Nissan used it as the "truck to beat" when designing the Titan? Now, maybe the Titan has eclipsed it in some ways, maybe not. Certainly, they have come closer than anybody else. No question it will have an impact. No question, people will buy it. The Dr. across the street bought one, traded in his F-250 on it. He's not sure he made the right move though.....it has a few design quirks he's not thrilled with - other things he likes a lot. Time will tell.
  • haironghairong Posts: 153
    (This site needs registration.)

    http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=47903

    Nissan's truck sales stumble

    By Kathy Jackson
    Automotive News / April 12, 2004

    Nissan is struggling with disappointing sales for three models built at its 1-year-old plant in Canton, Miss.

    Dealers are having trouble meeting sales projections for the full-sized Titan pickup and Armada SUV. And Nissan already has backed down from aggressive sales projections for its restyled Quest minivan launched last summer.

    Nissan committed $1.4 billion to construct a multivehicle assembly plant in Canton to produce the Titan pickup, Quest minivan, Armada SUV and its QX56 Infiniti version, as well as the Altima sedan.

    "More marketing is needed," says Jed Connelly, senior vice president for sales and marketing at Nissan North America Inc.

    He says Nissan will begin a round of regional advertising for the Titan beginning this month and for the Armada in June.

    Up - selectively

    Overall, Nissan sales rose 32.8 percent through the first three months of the year compared with 2003. But its Altima sedan - in one of the United States' most competitive and low-margin segments - is carrying the weight.

    Nissan launched its first full-sized pickup in December. It predicted sales of 100,000 Titans during its first full year on the market. The Armada went on sale in October with expectations of 40,000 sales in 2004.

    In the first quarter, Nissan sold just 14,207 Titans and 7,633 Armadas. When Nissan introduced the Quest in July, executives predicted sales of 80,000 to 85,000 in 2004. But volume has been between 3,000 and 4,000 a month.

    The Armada "has the right hardware and pricing, but the name Armada is new to the industry," Connelly says. "You can't overestimate the time it takes to seed a new name in the marketplace."

    Swollen inventories

    Meanwhile, inventory is piling up for the three Nissan trucks. The company had a 110-day supply of Armadas on April 1, a 97-day supply of Quests and a 95-day supply of Titans.

    "We're ramping up on Titan," Connelly says. "Trucks are unlike cars. We like to run a 50-day supply of cars. But we found out days' supply of trucks need to be higher - about 75 days. That's because truck buyers like to see a lot more models."

    Nissan says the lower-than-expected factory volumes are not a problem. Canton's total capacity of 400,000 vehicles a year is divided among five products and two brands. Workers there can move from one product to another.

    Production of the Quest and Altima are expected to total 250,000 units a year. That leaves 150,000 units of annual production for the three big body-on-frame trucks.

    After the launch, Nissan heavily advertised both the Titan and Armada for several weeks, then pulled back.

    But the Titan faces powerfully entrenched competition. It is up against the redesigned Ford F series as well as the Chevrolet Silverado, GMC Sierra and Dodge Ram. And Toyota will be in the market soon with a successor to its Tundra full-sized pickup. The Armada competes against the Ford Expedition and the Chevrolet Tahoe.

    Nissan's smaller Murano SUV, introduced in late 2002, took time to catch on. "Murano was a new name but maybe not in as competitive a segment," Connelly says.

    Though Nissan will begin advertising the Titan and Armada again, he says the ad budget is limited.

    "Right now we're moving marketing dollars around; there are no incremental dollars," he says. "We want to continue the weight on Titan and Armada. Titan and Altima are the two core products for us. When we advertised the Titan, hits on our Web site went through the roof. As soon as we stopped advertising, hits went down."
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    Kinda of perplexes me. But hey, I am enjoying my Titan and I couldn't be happier. Cheers to you!
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    You're just more alone than you thought, eh, keanec?
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    that the f150 is not a great truck. as a matter of fact, i think it is the 2nd best truck on the market. sales #'s have nothing to do with how good a vehicle is. using that logic, you would say that a ford explorer is a better vehicle than a honda accord or a camry or a mercedes or a lexus.

    the explorer outsells all of those, so it MUST be better, right?!?!?!
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    It is......sorry.
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    whatever, dude.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    The Explorer is really the perfect car for everything. Order it up the way you like it, stripped or loaded, 2 or 4WD, 6 or 8 cylinders....it will haul, tow, carry you, and up to 6 more in total comfort. Has Independent Rear Suspension for car like ride & handling, rack & pinion steering. And my old 94 made it to 127,000 miles before it gave me any trouble, and is still running on 5 cylinders at the moment. My Civic, also a great little car, made it a little further before the engine was done, 175,000 miles, but she had been pampered, and the Explorer had the hell beat out of it for 10 years. Sorry, YMMV, but I think the Explorer is the most applicable mass form of transportation on the planet, and the population seems to agree the most. Hey, you started it with the suggestion! :)
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    "You're just more alone than you thought, eh, keanec? "

    Even better - let the lemmings go drive the explorers and roll over because it is so much better than any other vehicle. hehe.

    Actually, I really do like driving something that isn't parked in every driveway. I have always been that way.I still remember when everybody in Canada drove the Hyundai Pony - yup, the fact that they sold so many of those made it a great vehicle. And that '95 and '96 Windstar had to be the best vehicle out there as they almost overtook the high quality Caravan for the sales lead in Canada. They sure made the dealers a ton of money in non-warranty service work. You couldn't drive down any roads with out hitting parts from trannys, ball joints, and everything else falling off those vehicles. But they sold the most: therefore they were the best.

    All joking aside, in my hometown, Dodge is kicking all F/S trucks as*es. My best friend just bought one. But I am still happy with my purchase and I am not too much worried about the Titan sales. Nissan is making all sorts of money right now - just like ford :-) - and even if more people in Canada wanted the Titan, they couldn't get them because the dealers can't get them up here.

    The Ford is a good truck and so is the Nissan (IMO). I chose the Nissan and if I had the choice again, I would go the same route.

    Cheers!
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I didn't say anything about sales being relevant to "best car", I just gave my opinion of the Explorer - whether or not it sold. However, since you brought it up, it's interesting that the Titan has sold so poorly. Could be somewhat affected by pricing and dealer attitudes, which I've heard, are pretty arrogant at the Nissan stores so far. OTOH, Ford is discounting and incenting their trucks as usual, and have plenty of product around.

    The Dr. across the street recently bought an Armada on my recommendation. I asked him tonight if he was happy with it. Response was: while it's a fine truck, it's too small for their needs. They were used to a Suburban. Probably not a relevant review to this discussion, so I offer it only anecdotally. They bought a rooftop luggage carrier to compensate for the lack of cargo space in the back. But the roof racks are spaced so far apart, you can't attach the rooftop carrier. They are frustrated.
  • bearbrawnbearbrawn Posts: 19
    It is also surprising that while many people have complimented me on my truck - they still ask many questions that show how little marketing is reaching the masses.

    Like Keanec said, I also hope they don't flood the market like the Durangoes and Dakotas did...

    Unlikely - since only the "well-informed" consumers are buying the Titans.
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    the armada's crossbars are adjustable, and the rails are no wider apart than any other full size SUV or minivan.
  • jrc346jrc346 Posts: 337
    If I was "well informed", I would go go the Armada boards and check out how things are going on there in addition to issues here on this board, as it is built at the same plant and shares many components with the Titan. I would find wind noise and interior noise problems, though the wind noise is specific to the Armada, the interior bits and pieces are more similar than not, and thats where the noises are coming from. I also might be weary of a company (while with a good reputation) building its first full-size pickup. This is purely suggestion, I don't intend to make it anymore than that. On the other hand, Ford doesn't have the greatest reputation for launching vehicles, though as of late (2003/04), they have done much better

    Funny, I think that all of this bickering has brought me to one conclusion. That these trucks are so similar in function, that now it's only the little nit-picky things that we toss back and forth on this board. So far, it is apparent that they are both very capitable with each having their own merits. Some individuals like merits of one vehicle better, because those cater to that persons needs. Like those here that feel the F-150 is better than the Titan or vice versa.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    they are clearly #1 and #2, it would seem.

    On the crossbars? The Dr's Armada has 3 cross bars, and two are connected by siderails, and probably are adjustable. The most forward one, is stationary, and not connected by the side rails. It seems his carrier needs crossbars where these 3 will not go. Perhaps the wrong carrier, I don't know, but he's a urologist, so he should be able to figure it out if it will work.
  • salemsalem Posts: 5
    Do you or anyone you know of have any experience towing with the new Titan? I'm interested in how the towing is on a travel trailer or 5th wheel. Thanks
  • salemsalem Posts: 5
    nvbankr: Have you had any experience towing with your Titan? Specifically a pull trailer or 5th wheel? Know anyone who has? Thanks
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    Just got mine two days ago so I haven't had the opportunity to pull my TT yet. I am not worried about it because many people have pulled trailers and they said it is great. In fact, a magazine rated it as the towing truck of the year. Can't remember the name. Right now, it is hard to get the proper 5th wheel hitch. The manufacturers are just starting to make them.

    A fellow from my area got a hitch installed with no problem and he can still use his utilitrac. If you need more info, let me know.
  • salemsalem Posts: 5
    Thanks for your timely response. I've been looking at Chevy 2500's as my wife and I want to get a nice trailer. However, they don't seem to pull much more than the standard Titan, and are more $$$ to drive. I'm pretty impressed with them so far.
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    im not sure what post it is, but in the 'nissan titan' board, i wrote a lengthy post about towing an 11k lb. TT.
  • salemsalem Posts: 5
    Any idea how to locate the article? I'm new to this Town Hall site and have been searching for your story for over an hour without success.
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    in the nissan titan board.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    The Wall Street Journal did an article on how well Ford turned around their performance in the first quarter, totally reversing their trend. It was largely assisted in the turnaround by sales of the new F-150, which were discounted much less than the competition in order to sell them.
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    of ford on the new truck. the rebate is only $1000 on supercrew, and $1500 on the others. they still have work to do, but its the 2nd LEAST incentivised truck next to the titan. the tundra offers $1500 on all but the double cab.

    GM and dodge stock should drop, since their trucks arent good enough to compete at sticker price.
  • twinbladesztwinbladesz Posts: 104
    I joined a board that deals with towing. Although when you mention the Titan or the Armada you get the American vs Import nonsense but there have been posts on how Good both the Armada and Titan do with towing. Please Please Please dont go out and buy a 7k dry weight trailer because the specs on the truck say 98k and 92k. With the Armada start with a dry weight of around 5k and with the Titan try around 6k dry. You gotta add all the junk plus family friends etc that you will put in the trailer or 5th wheel. So be careful. Plus both have a cap I think of around 910lbs for hitch weight so do research and dont listen to what any dealers tell you about that thing can tow anything. It cant both are 1500 trucks and have a limit to what they can tow safely. I do hope that Nissan does bring a 3/4 and 1 ton trucks to the market which Toyota is planning. Should make the market a very interesting place.

    This board http://www.campingworld.com/cforum/index.cfm will give you all kinds of tips and advice on the do's and dont's of towing. I've learned a lot since joining it.
  • salemsalem Posts: 5
    The TITAN is rated at 9500 lbs. towing capacity. Why do you suggest limitingh the trailer to 5000 to 6000? Surely a few cldothes and foodstuffs wouldn't amount to 3 or 4 thousand lbs.
This discussion has been closed.