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Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150

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Comments

  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    "But this thinking doesn't surprise me though. On another board I posted the same information and receive the... "Oh but they are biased because it's Detroit based publisher". Then the same vehicle wins MotorTrends Truck of the year, then they posted.... "Well they are biased because Motortrend operates from NA".

    Sorry, but I only discounted that one publication based on two quotes in the one article; like i said before! I also, didn't say MT was biased either so I guess your statements are about the other people and not me? :-)

    I actually read the Auto news section of the Detroit Free Press and enjoy it.

    As to all "of the year" awards - each one uses there own criteria or places more emphasis on certain ones. The F150 has some distinct advantages in certain areas; especially variations; that appeal to different people. That is why there will be more than 1 Truck of year winner in all the different contests.

    The Ford will win some, the Titan will win some and everybody will make there own decision.

    One of the constants about all (or almost all) T-O-Y contests is they are subjective to the people choosing. They almost all use things like: Interior and exterior styling, ride, handling, features, etc... which are all VERY subjective.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "Sorry, but I only discounted that one publication based on two quotes in the one article; like i said before! I also, didn't say MT was biased either so I guess your statements are about the other people and not me? :-)"

    So if the article had NOT mentioned it in those terms, and they would have stated something in the lines of "OH surprise, both vehicles awarded are domestic manufacturer's, somethings that's quite rare" would that have been much better? I mean, the fact is that winner is from a domestic manufacturer, and coincidentally happens to be reported by an American publishing source, would that make them biased? When in previous years they have awarded it to other foreign makes....?

    No the MT comment was for the example I mentioned in the other bullentin board I mentioned.

    Lennx, What year is your F-150? From 1996 on, the F-150 has been manufactured with bumpers that will not overlap car's bumper system. As in, it's a longer/taller bumper reinforcement that extends downward to prevent car bumper override.
  • triattriat Posts: 121
    Count to date:

    F150 - 2
    TITAN - 1
    TUNDRA - 0
    RAM - 0
    C1500 - 0

    Well the Tundra,Ram & C1500 must all be junk heh?

    Sarcasm aside now, I do think it ironic when media publications sing the praises giving out these awards. Then a few years later either at the model's next significant update or when a competitor comes out with a new model; these same media sources suddenly have complaints or issues with things they just a couple of years before praised! Did the vehicle suddenly go south? Or were the reviewers sandbagging?

    Makes me wonder!
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    I read somewhere that PM has done a comparison test of all the full sized trucks - including the Tundra DC. Has anybody read the article?
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Speaking of more awards...

    http://www.iihs.org/news_releases/2003/pr121903.htm

    "HIGH-SPEED CRASH TEST RESULTS:
    NEW FORD PICKUP & MINIVAN ARE 'BEST PICKS,'
    F-150 PICKUP SHOWS DRAMATIC IMPROVEMENT

    ARLINGTON, VA -- The redesigned Ford F-150 pickup truck and Ford Freestar minivan each earned the highest overall rating in a recent series of 40 mph frontal crash tests conducted by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. Both vehicles, which are 2004 models, improved compared with their predecessors. The previous F-150 model was rated poor, while the redesigned 2004 model F-150 earned a good rating and the added designation of "best pick." Ford's previous minivan, the Windstar, was rated acceptable, while the new Freestar earned a rating of good and also is a "best pick."
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    This post is a little long but it is a mini review form edmunds staffers...pretty much says what many people are saying - awards aside -...it even mentions that dirty "anemic" word!! Here it is:

    "By Brian Moody
    Date posted: 12-18-2003

    Road Test Editor Erin Riches says:
    Anyone who settles into the driver seat of an F-150 SuperCab on a dealership lot will be hard-pressed to find fault with it. The cab is roomy, the seats are comfortable, there are six cupholders in the front seat alone (along with plenty of storage areas) and the grain patterns on most of the hard plastics match. Although I still prefer the accommodations in the Dodge Ram, it doesn't get much better than this in full-size trucks.

    Unfortunately, these good feelings are apt to go out the window when you actually start up the F-150. The 5.4-liter V8 has never felt weaker — regardless of the tow ratings Ford is claiming — and offers nowhere near the torque of Dodge's Hemi, GM's 5.3-liter or Nissan's 5.6-liter. I was the only one in our otherwise empty test truck, and acceleration felt no more than adequate for merging and passing on the highway, or climbing modest hills in the canyons. Moreover, pressing the accelerator pedal didn't yield the authoritative grunts and growls you usually get with a V8. If you've already made the decision to give up gas mileage to get some decent hauling power, you want to feel the sacrifice is worth it — and Ford's 5.4-liter wouldn't do that for me.

    Besides that, I wasn't all that impressed with our test truck's ride and handling characteristics. Sure, the F-150 was better behaved than any Silverado or Sierra, but neither the suspension nor steering provided the level of control and feedback you get with the Ram or Titan. There's no question that full-size pickups are still some of the least domesticated vehicles on the road, but Dodge, Nissan and Toyota have raised expectations for their manners on pavement.

    If the F-150 manages to hold onto the best-selling pickup crown in 2004, it won't be because Ford built the best full-size pickup. Serious truck buyers would be ill-advised to buy this truck on name value alone.

    Photo Editor Scott Jacobs says:
    The F-150 has a lot of Ford's hopes pinned to it. It's the longest-running, best-selling Ford vehicle out there. So basically, this is the company's bread-and-butter vehicle. Having said that, I had a lot of expectations going into my drive around town in the F-150.

    I was first impressed by the styling of both the exterior and interior. It has chiseled features that are a touch plain, but I think for a work truck like this they work very well. The interior has a very symmetrical layout that I found especially pleasing in comparison to its competitors. In my opinion, the interior for GM trucks are ugly, the Dodge trucks are way too basic in design while Toyota's are a mix between the GM and Dodge. This Ford, like its competitors, has a ton of semi cheap-looking plastic covering the interior which really detracts from its aesthetic appearance. I do, however, have to give it kudos for the matching grain which downplayed that cheap plastic look a little bit.

    I couldn't believe I was driving a truck with a 5.4-liter V8. After one good pedal stomp on the freeway, I was stunned. Where had all that power gone to? It really got me thinking that in comparison to its competition, it's going to feel pretty pathetic, and especially so for the extra money a V8 would command. Trucks hang their hat on towing capacity and Ford claims a 1,600-pound advantage over the Chevrolet Silverado. I really hope that is the case and the anemic power feeling is deceiving.

    I'm a little worried for Ford. The F-150 is nice, but it doesn't seem like it's a huge improvement over the previous generation. Looks can only carry you so far. With so many hopes pinned to it, I fear it may not deliver as expected."
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    So what's the issue, that's their impression, nothing wrong with that, is there ?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    They get considerably stronger with age. When brand new, they do feel a little asthmatic, but the power for towing is there.

    Now, any of you have a Chevy truck with a 454 in it? It's the most disappointing truck on earth off the line! You expect a mill that large to just haul [non-permissible content removed] off the line, and it's dreadfully slow! Yet, put your trailer behind it, and watch the smoke it will make!

    Power bands and availability of torque are not always what you expect. I would give any truck a thorough test drive to see how it performs before buying.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Actually from other reports I've read the Triton seems soft for a few hundred break-in miles, but owner's have stated it improves after that. Not to mention that the smoothness and the quietness of the cabin, do quite a bit for that perception in thinking it's powerless.

    I have a friends Saturn L300 V6, which seems quite fast because of it's quick snappy kick-downs, and major torque steer in the steering wheel. Yet I'm fully that it's 0-60 is 7.2-7.5sec, while I have another friend with a new Accord V6, and while I know it's acceleration is much quicker than the Saturn, it feels slower because it's quieter, smoother and more isolated than the Saturn.

    But I find ironic about one of their comments about the interior quality. It just seems every publication praises the quality interior, yet they found it to be plasticky. So already that sets off some red-flags that there might be a hidden agenda on their opinions.

    But overall this isn't to distract that the majority of the media loves the new F-150 and a few outlets have honored it with "Of the Year" awards, therefore these peoples assessment seem to be of the minority :)
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    If they praise the F150 they are right...if they don't, they are in the minority and must be wrong? I have yet to find any media who has fully tested the F150 that says it has power! ANT...you post in the F150 group and you are a self professed expert there. Not only that, everybody there thinks you have tons of knowledge about engines. You go into great detail to say why the 3 valve per cylinder is better than four and how it was going to give way more power in low RPM's than the 4 valve set-up...oh ya, it was going to be cheaper too!

    I have yet to see your proclomations come true. Do you think everybody who has tested it has only used a vehicle with less than a couple of hundred miles? I think it is time you smelled the coffee and realized that with all the extra weight and an engine that is good but not great, it is just ordinary.

    As to the interior - BS - many media people, and many Ford people on your F150 board, have also commented about the cheapness of some of the F150 interiors (they have 5 of them). Does cheezy looking woodgrain ring a bell?

    There are also many people who say the interior of the F150 is class leading...that tells me it is subjective (and bound to be influenced by a 100 mil advertising campaign) so you either like it or you don't; it is not what a great truck should be judged on.

    The Titan has only been out for less than 3 weeks...most of the "tests" have been done on pre-production models...that should say something.

    The F150 is a good truck - maybe great compared to the old F150 - but others have stepped up to the plate and surpassed it - The huge advertising campaign of Ford just hasn't let a lot of people know it. Ford will still sell a ton of the F150s, don't worry, your job is safe, Nissan doesn't even have the capability to manufacture enough Titans to even put a dent in the F150 sales - and there are enough "Ford is God" people out there to keep it there. Just don't delude yourself that this is a great truck.

    it isn't!

    it is a good truck with a very nice interior (at least on some models) that is a step up from the old F150, but not a class leader by any shot!
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    Watch out for Toyota! How many shots at the minivan market; or the car market for that matter, did it take until they got the best product? Watch out for the Tundra.
  • kg11kg11 Posts: 530
    Speaking of cheap woodgrain dash. Come have a look at my '03 Corolla. It boasts a 26 MPG avg (city) compared to the 32 est. And it would be faster RIDING in an F150. The first time it rained the windshield leaked.

    My '95 Tacoma was recalled for a head gasket problem that was supposed to have been fixed for the earlier 3.0 V6.

    My '01 GMC 2500 HD had the Allison transmission completely replaced TWICE in the first 6 mo.

    The wife's '98 mustang has 50k mi and no problems.

    Toyota quality? Can't prove it by me.
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    SO you are trying to sat Ford has better quality than Toyota and GM? Been smoking something lately? Mr. Ford himself proclaimed that Ford had a quality problem. As to your problems, no vehicle is perfect, you always have a chance of problems. The thing is, you have much LESS chance of problems with a Toyota than a Ford for many reasons. This isn't just me saying this - the majority of automotive media say the same thing.

    By the way - GM has improved much more than Ford.
  • kg11kg11 Posts: 530
    As you said,"no vehicle is perfect" and I agree that you have less chance for problems with Toy. I've bought 2 in the last 8 years.

    BUT; Toyota is certianly not trouble free. First year Tundras had brake problems. Several models of thier V6 had head gasket problems. Several of thier engines have sludge problems.

    I'm sure there are a lot of quality Toyotas out there but very few "best in class" claims other than quality which is clearly less than perfect. My Tacoma was GREAT off road but it's 1800lb gross payload was exagerated. The springs bottomed out with 1200 lb of sand in the bed. (My GMC has 4-5 inches of spring travel at 500 lb OVER the 3300 lb rated payload.) The tow rating was 5000 lb With the Taco but it struggled with my 3800 lb boat. I never considered towing in the mountians.

    People who think thier Tundras are work trucks don't actually work them. Car-like ride? You bet! 1800 lb payload? You'd better keep it against the cab and take it easy on the brakes. I agree the Tundra is a great truck for most peoples going to Home Depot needs but class leading it's not.

    The new F150 has an optional payload of 3000lb. IF the next generation Tundra offers higher tow / hual ratings they'll need to stretch the wheelbase to the same as a real full sized truck.(like Titan)
  • s852s852 Posts: 1,051
    I drove one for a day, but I was disappointed by the power from a 300HP engine. If you're going to make the sacrifice of poor gas mileage, then I feel you should have snappy acceleration available if you want to use it. The acceleration was just barely adequate with no weight in the bed. I have a hard time believing that it really had 300HP. Has anyone dynoed it? This is not a race car, but it feels slow even when compared to other full sized pickups.

    I also would want side curtain airbags for an extra margin of safety especially with the risk of roll over in a truck. Maybe in a couple years when they have discontinued the Heritage model and have all factories building the new F-150, Ford will make side curtain airbags available and find the missing horsepower. The only other thing I didn't like was the cheesy super-fake plastic wood trim in the Lariat.
    I'll check back when the 2006 models come out.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    Well, I don't share many of Keanec's opinions, but his last post I pretty much agree. My son-in-laws brother just brought home a '04 F150 the other night and I had a chance to drive it.

    Keep in mind my daily ride is a '03 Dakota, so some of my critique is based on those non-relative terms. The F150 is a nice truck. It is quieter than my son-in-laws '02 F150, but then so is my Dakota. This is purely a subjective thing, but the interior strikes me as being stark and over utilitarian. I would not use the word "cheap" because I don't think the materials are inexpensive or of poor quality. It just doesn't have any warmth to it. It reminds me of Nissan Frontier.

    I've driven the Silverado and the new RAM and without a doubt I think both have more feedback, tighter handling and more precise steering. The RAM, in my opinion, is the leader in this category by far. This '04 F150 had the 5.4 engine and to me the power seemed more than adequate. However, compared to my 4.7 Dakota automatic I think those horses in the 5.4 have been way over fed. I have beaten my son-in-laws '02 5.4, it sure seems like I could do the same to his brother's '04. Even my son-in-law remarked that it seemed "doggish" and advised him to have it checked.

    The ride is very good, I must say. Better than my Dakota, better than the RAM, and just as good as the Silverado I last drove. However, the penalty may have been in true payload capacity since this '04 F150 and my '03 Dakota are sporting the same 280 pounds of sand in the back for winter traction and the squat in the F150 was more pronounced.

    And speaking of "Toyota quality," since owning one I most certainly think that phrase is highly exagerated. I noticed in Consumer Reports last Buying Guide, the Camry and the Dakota now have the same rating for reliability ("average"). Those claiming Toyota invincibility are either suffering from juvenile superiority ("my machine's better than your machine") and need to brag as an outlet for their egos, or are in denial.

    Haven't seen a Titan yet in the flesh.

    Dusty
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "You go into great detail to say why the 3 valve per cylinder is better than four and how it was going to give way more power in low RPM's than the 4 valve set-up...oh ya, it was going to be cheaper too!

    I have yet to see your proclomations come true. Do you think everybody who has tested it has only used a vehicle with less than a couple of hundred miles? I think it is time you smelled the coffee and realized that with all the extra weight and an engine that is good but not great, it is just ordinary."

    Then if your well versed as to the manufacturing and development of the F-150, then I do not need to link you to articles indicating the items I have stated. As in, if you've taken the time to go thru the boards at the information I have shared, then you will see for yourself I'm backing up my info.

    No vehicle is ever perfect, and diversity and choice allow consumer's to ultimately vote with their wallets of what they want. And certainly the 900K units plus a year will surely indicate what it is people wish to have. The information I have linked previous, will show comments supporting various points I have made and proven. Obviously that is not enough, a few "Of the Year" awards is not enough for you, and your entitled to your opinion of course, but for the majority of buyer's, it's more than enough and the proof is out there.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,699
    The new F150 has an optional payload of 3000lb

    This 3000 payload is not available on every F-150. It comes with the 8200 GVW, and I believe the 3000 pound rating is only on 2WD regular cab models with the 8' bed, in which it is an option.

    Other models with the 8200 GVW (Super Cabs w/8' bed, which it's standard) have a lower payload (because of a higher curb weight), but still very good.

    Bob
  • s852s852 Posts: 1,051
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3738415/

    It looks good. The old version/Heritage is horrific.
    Now all it needs is some kind of VSC to reduce roll over risk, plus make side curtain airbags available as an option to complete the package.
  • I have assumed, following this thread, that the Nissan's engine and drivetrain will be made in Japan and shipped to the US for installation here, at the new plant. Is that correct? .... I must say, this thread has a disturbing amount of heat for the lack of actual road time that anyone has with the new truck. This time, next year, we'll all be entitled to opinions about the relative merits of the new 150 and the Titan. Right now, the comparisons are speculation. And I'd bet that Ford announces, within two years, that a three-valve V10 Triton is forthcoming.
  • s852s852 Posts: 1,051
    That should get rid of sluggish performance at the cost of even worse gas mileage.
    I wonder why the 300HP V8 performs so poorly. Other trucks perform better with about the same or less power.
  • gkatz1gkatz1 Posts: 296
    In the latest PM truck comparison the Ford was statistically even with the Toyota. Most people realize that the Toyota performs better than its numbers suggest, but the Ford should have edged it out with 60 extra HP plus more torque.
  • I think its the extra weight of the Ford that robs it of the better performance its specs give.
  • Just comparing the Curb weight of the Super Crew F150, the Titan Crew Cab and the Double Cab Tundra. The Ford outweighs the Titan by 97lbs and the Tundra by a whopping 390lbs. So its a big heavy truck that might be robbing itself of power. I think the extra 5 HP and 14 torque help the Titan out power the Ford although they are very close in their spec numbers.
  • The Titan engine is actually made in their Tennessee plant and shipped to the new Mississippi plant where it's built.

    If anyone has reservations on the F-150 engine drive one, then drive the Nissan Titan. You'll never look at the F-150 again. No comparison. I was all set to buy the new F-150, decided to test drive the Titan "just to make sure" and ordered myself a Titan.

    All of you can talk about the interior's all you want, I buy a truck for the engine and what it can do, if you want a plush interior go buy a Cadillac.

    I can control everything in the Titan with my work gloves on, the F-150's are too small.
  • If you want a cushy bling bling interior for a (pickup?)and can wait a little bit lol. Lincoln is suppoosedly getting its own version of the F150 according to Motor Week. It wont be a useless truck like the Blackwood though. It will be Navigator interior with a real pickup bed not that stupid non removeable electric bed cover.
  • gkatz1gkatz1 Posts: 296
    The F150 is definately heavy, but there's something else going on. Either the Fords power is overrated or the gearing is too tall.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    It's weight, the gearing is very similar to last years version.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,699
    The Titan has an alloy block & heads, IIRC; not so for the F-150.

    Bob
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
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