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Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150

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Comments

  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    I would like to Congratulate Ford's F-150 which was just awarded Truck of The Year, as well as Cadillac's XLR for Car of the Year.

    Quote: "Best truck honors go to the redesigned 2004 Ford F-150 pickup, which continues to stand as the benchmark in the full-size pickup market and raises the bar even higher in terms of interior amenities and quality. "

    http://www.detnews.com/2003/autosinsider/0312/17/a01-11508.htm
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    "The 2004 Detroit News Car and Truck of the Year are a celebration of Detroit iron from storied brands marking centennial years."

    then they go on to say "If you think the nod to Cadillac and Ford is merely local boosterism, consider this: Of our 10 runners-up, five were Japanese products and three came from Europe.

    and finally "In the face of stiff competition, our hats are off to the hometown teams"

    Nice try ANT - "hometown teams that is unbiased??

    A celebration of Detroit Iron?? Yup, the F-150 deserves congrats! ya right!

    I would congrat if the F-150 wins this; which is announced in Jan.

    "North American Car and Truck of the Year finalists announced

    A group of American and Canadian automotive journalists has selected the Cadillac XLR, Mazda RX-8 and Toyota Prius as the finalists for the North American Car of the Year, while the Cadillac SRX, the Ford F-150 and Nissan Titan are finalists for the North American Truck of the Year. "

    It will be a lot less biased!
  • haironghairong Posts: 153
    '04 F-150.

    http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/truck/112_04_toy_announce/

    So far F-150: 2; Titan 0.

    Of course, MT is biased, too. They gave awards to a Toyota, a VW, now a Ford, obviously they are just biased against Nissan. Oops, they gave G35 COTY last year. Maybe, just maybe, Titan wasn't better than F150.

    FYI, last year, NAIAS Car/Truck of the Year went to a pair of imports, Mini Cooper and XC-90. Biased or not, better product wins. If you can win against odds, all the more impressive.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    ANT is too much of a gentleman to respond to your anti-north american biased comments. He may bash a rental car or two into the curb from time to time, but he'll never bash on the Town Hall. I, OTOH, am not such a gentleman, and I will venture to say that you don't know what you're talking about yet. In a year, we'll know who's right. But right now, we just don't know if either of these trucks are great, lousy, or mediocre. So, let's just wait and see.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    I was just about to post the Motortrend Truck of the Year award news release and Hairong just beat me to it. But Congratulations to the F-150 Team once again.
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    I'll answer these one at a time...
     F150 2 Titan 1 (not zero) remember 4x4 Mag?

    I didn't say all magazines are biased and I resent your inference. I do respect motor-trend. And if you read my post I said I would say congrats to the F150 where it is imho warranted - so congrats for the MT award.

    read the article ANT posted about and you will get why I discounted it. I only posted portions but since it is a Detroit publication that starts off by saying they are a celebration of Detroit Iron, I could hardly call them impartial.

    Also, I think the Award you talked about that was won by The Volvo last year is the same one I refered to in my post when I said I would like to see the results from that.
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    " you don't know what you're talking about yet"

    And you do?

    my comments are my opinions which you can take or leave or put them where the sun.....:-).

           "anti-north american biased comments..."

    The Titan is designed, manufactured, assembled, etc.. with NA parts in NA. So all my comments about it are pro N american. That said, I guess JD Powers and others like them are also biased against NA too.

            " But right now, we just don't know if either of these trucks are great, lousy, or mediocre. So, let's just wait and see."

    Agreed 110%, but if I am going to shell out $50,000, I would rather take my chances on a company that didn't produce the infamous Windstar, Escape and other notorious terrible product launches and whose own CEO (the grandson of the founder) comes out and says they have many quality issues that they are working on. Well, once they have solved them then I will be willing take a chance with my money. So, when I am in the market 3-4 years down the road, I will look at the 150 again.

    I haven't yet attacked anybody personally (except maybe correcting some facts), but feel free if you have the need to do that.

    My final comment is that "on paper" and from my intial first impressions of both vehicles, I like the Titan better. Others, like Ant, like the Ford better and he plainly shows that as I plainly show my preference.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "read the article ANT posted about and you will get why I discounted it. I only posted portions but since it is a Detroit publication that starts off by saying they are a celebration of Detroit Iron, I could hardly call them impartial."

    Anyone in the automotive industry will understand that Detroit News Automotive, is pretty much like the Wall Street Journal of the Automotive industry and are highly regarded. They are not NA biased and have awarded awards to many foreign brands in the past. And if anyone has ever read reports off the journalists from Detroit News, they will see that they are rather harsh on domestic products overall.

    Let alone, I could name some journalists that have posted articles (that NEED to retire) because they are still thinking back on old-detroit and continue to bring up issues from years past like the Pinto and simply do not understand that a product changes every few years, and their experience from WAY back when, will not be the same as now.

    But this thinking doesn't surprise me though. On another board I posted the same information and receive the... "Oh but they are biased because it's Detroit based publisher". Then the same vehicle wins MotorTrends Truck of the year, then they posted.... "Well they are biased because Motortrend operates from NA".

    And will ALL know that at some point they'll continue on to... "well, they are biased because it's a Domestic vehicle built in the US, and we live here and so do they"...Then if the vehicle wins "Alaskan Truck of the year" Then it'll be "well they are biased, because they are part of the U.S.". Then if the vehicle wins some other awards, the excuse will be "Well, they are biased because we live in the Planet Earth, and the vehicle is built there"....

    This isn't to say the Titan doesn't deserve any awards. If anything I'm expecting it to probably win some "Of the Year" awards over the F-150 mainly because it's the first time that an asian manufacturer has done a great effort and built from the ground up something that's actually decent competition. Unlike Toyota's common 7/8th effort with the previous Sienna, and current Tundra. Or Honda's previous Oddysey.

    But as stated by some of these publishings, they elected the F-150 just because it had a bit more of what they were looking for, over the Titan.
  • haironghairong Posts: 153
    Just to clarify things, the award in ANT's link (on Detroit News web site) is the NAIAS award, of which Volvo won last year, and F150 won this year. The news report maybe from a homer, but the award isn't.

    Now, F150 has won two TOTY awards from the sources you respect, what do you have to say?
  • lennxlennx Posts: 73
    I am not too worried about the bumpers. On my 4x4 F-150, my bumper will probably go over most car bumpers. Plastic grilles crush much easier than the insurance industries test bumper.
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    "But this thinking doesn't surprise me though. On another board I posted the same information and receive the... "Oh but they are biased because it's Detroit based publisher". Then the same vehicle wins MotorTrends Truck of the year, then they posted.... "Well they are biased because Motortrend operates from NA".

    Sorry, but I only discounted that one publication based on two quotes in the one article; like i said before! I also, didn't say MT was biased either so I guess your statements are about the other people and not me? :-)

    I actually read the Auto news section of the Detroit Free Press and enjoy it.

    As to all "of the year" awards - each one uses there own criteria or places more emphasis on certain ones. The F150 has some distinct advantages in certain areas; especially variations; that appeal to different people. That is why there will be more than 1 Truck of year winner in all the different contests.

    The Ford will win some, the Titan will win some and everybody will make there own decision.

    One of the constants about all (or almost all) T-O-Y contests is they are subjective to the people choosing. They almost all use things like: Interior and exterior styling, ride, handling, features, etc... which are all VERY subjective.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "Sorry, but I only discounted that one publication based on two quotes in the one article; like i said before! I also, didn't say MT was biased either so I guess your statements are about the other people and not me? :-)"

    So if the article had NOT mentioned it in those terms, and they would have stated something in the lines of "OH surprise, both vehicles awarded are domestic manufacturer's, somethings that's quite rare" would that have been much better? I mean, the fact is that winner is from a domestic manufacturer, and coincidentally happens to be reported by an American publishing source, would that make them biased? When in previous years they have awarded it to other foreign makes....?

    No the MT comment was for the example I mentioned in the other bullentin board I mentioned.

    Lennx, What year is your F-150? From 1996 on, the F-150 has been manufactured with bumpers that will not overlap car's bumper system. As in, it's a longer/taller bumper reinforcement that extends downward to prevent car bumper override.
  • triattriat Posts: 121
    Count to date:

    F150 - 2
    TITAN - 1
    TUNDRA - 0
    RAM - 0
    C1500 - 0

    Well the Tundra,Ram & C1500 must all be junk heh?

    Sarcasm aside now, I do think it ironic when media publications sing the praises giving out these awards. Then a few years later either at the model's next significant update or when a competitor comes out with a new model; these same media sources suddenly have complaints or issues with things they just a couple of years before praised! Did the vehicle suddenly go south? Or were the reviewers sandbagging?

    Makes me wonder!
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    I read somewhere that PM has done a comparison test of all the full sized trucks - including the Tundra DC. Has anybody read the article?
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Speaking of more awards...

    http://www.iihs.org/news_releases/2003/pr121903.htm

    "HIGH-SPEED CRASH TEST RESULTS:
    NEW FORD PICKUP & MINIVAN ARE 'BEST PICKS,'
    F-150 PICKUP SHOWS DRAMATIC IMPROVEMENT

    ARLINGTON, VA -- The redesigned Ford F-150 pickup truck and Ford Freestar minivan each earned the highest overall rating in a recent series of 40 mph frontal crash tests conducted by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. Both vehicles, which are 2004 models, improved compared with their predecessors. The previous F-150 model was rated poor, while the redesigned 2004 model F-150 earned a good rating and the added designation of "best pick." Ford's previous minivan, the Windstar, was rated acceptable, while the new Freestar earned a rating of good and also is a "best pick."
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    This post is a little long but it is a mini review form edmunds staffers...pretty much says what many people are saying - awards aside -...it even mentions that dirty "anemic" word!! Here it is:

    "By Brian Moody
    Date posted: 12-18-2003

    Road Test Editor Erin Riches says:
    Anyone who settles into the driver seat of an F-150 SuperCab on a dealership lot will be hard-pressed to find fault with it. The cab is roomy, the seats are comfortable, there are six cupholders in the front seat alone (along with plenty of storage areas) and the grain patterns on most of the hard plastics match. Although I still prefer the accommodations in the Dodge Ram, it doesn't get much better than this in full-size trucks.

    Unfortunately, these good feelings are apt to go out the window when you actually start up the F-150. The 5.4-liter V8 has never felt weaker — regardless of the tow ratings Ford is claiming — and offers nowhere near the torque of Dodge's Hemi, GM's 5.3-liter or Nissan's 5.6-liter. I was the only one in our otherwise empty test truck, and acceleration felt no more than adequate for merging and passing on the highway, or climbing modest hills in the canyons. Moreover, pressing the accelerator pedal didn't yield the authoritative grunts and growls you usually get with a V8. If you've already made the decision to give up gas mileage to get some decent hauling power, you want to feel the sacrifice is worth it — and Ford's 5.4-liter wouldn't do that for me.

    Besides that, I wasn't all that impressed with our test truck's ride and handling characteristics. Sure, the F-150 was better behaved than any Silverado or Sierra, but neither the suspension nor steering provided the level of control and feedback you get with the Ram or Titan. There's no question that full-size pickups are still some of the least domesticated vehicles on the road, but Dodge, Nissan and Toyota have raised expectations for their manners on pavement.

    If the F-150 manages to hold onto the best-selling pickup crown in 2004, it won't be because Ford built the best full-size pickup. Serious truck buyers would be ill-advised to buy this truck on name value alone.

    Photo Editor Scott Jacobs says:
    The F-150 has a lot of Ford's hopes pinned to it. It's the longest-running, best-selling Ford vehicle out there. So basically, this is the company's bread-and-butter vehicle. Having said that, I had a lot of expectations going into my drive around town in the F-150.

    I was first impressed by the styling of both the exterior and interior. It has chiseled features that are a touch plain, but I think for a work truck like this they work very well. The interior has a very symmetrical layout that I found especially pleasing in comparison to its competitors. In my opinion, the interior for GM trucks are ugly, the Dodge trucks are way too basic in design while Toyota's are a mix between the GM and Dodge. This Ford, like its competitors, has a ton of semi cheap-looking plastic covering the interior which really detracts from its aesthetic appearance. I do, however, have to give it kudos for the matching grain which downplayed that cheap plastic look a little bit.

    I couldn't believe I was driving a truck with a 5.4-liter V8. After one good pedal stomp on the freeway, I was stunned. Where had all that power gone to? It really got me thinking that in comparison to its competition, it's going to feel pretty pathetic, and especially so for the extra money a V8 would command. Trucks hang their hat on towing capacity and Ford claims a 1,600-pound advantage over the Chevrolet Silverado. I really hope that is the case and the anemic power feeling is deceiving.

    I'm a little worried for Ford. The F-150 is nice, but it doesn't seem like it's a huge improvement over the previous generation. Looks can only carry you so far. With so many hopes pinned to it, I fear it may not deliver as expected."
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    So what's the issue, that's their impression, nothing wrong with that, is there ?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    They get considerably stronger with age. When brand new, they do feel a little asthmatic, but the power for towing is there.

    Now, any of you have a Chevy truck with a 454 in it? It's the most disappointing truck on earth off the line! You expect a mill that large to just haul [non-permissible content removed] off the line, and it's dreadfully slow! Yet, put your trailer behind it, and watch the smoke it will make!

    Power bands and availability of torque are not always what you expect. I would give any truck a thorough test drive to see how it performs before buying.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Actually from other reports I've read the Triton seems soft for a few hundred break-in miles, but owner's have stated it improves after that. Not to mention that the smoothness and the quietness of the cabin, do quite a bit for that perception in thinking it's powerless.

    I have a friends Saturn L300 V6, which seems quite fast because of it's quick snappy kick-downs, and major torque steer in the steering wheel. Yet I'm fully that it's 0-60 is 7.2-7.5sec, while I have another friend with a new Accord V6, and while I know it's acceleration is much quicker than the Saturn, it feels slower because it's quieter, smoother and more isolated than the Saturn.

    But I find ironic about one of their comments about the interior quality. It just seems every publication praises the quality interior, yet they found it to be plasticky. So already that sets off some red-flags that there might be a hidden agenda on their opinions.

    But overall this isn't to distract that the majority of the media loves the new F-150 and a few outlets have honored it with "Of the Year" awards, therefore these peoples assessment seem to be of the minority :)
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    If they praise the F150 they are right...if they don't, they are in the minority and must be wrong? I have yet to find any media who has fully tested the F150 that says it has power! ANT...you post in the F150 group and you are a self professed expert there. Not only that, everybody there thinks you have tons of knowledge about engines. You go into great detail to say why the 3 valve per cylinder is better than four and how it was going to give way more power in low RPM's than the 4 valve set-up...oh ya, it was going to be cheaper too!

    I have yet to see your proclomations come true. Do you think everybody who has tested it has only used a vehicle with less than a couple of hundred miles? I think it is time you smelled the coffee and realized that with all the extra weight and an engine that is good but not great, it is just ordinary.

    As to the interior - BS - many media people, and many Ford people on your F150 board, have also commented about the cheapness of some of the F150 interiors (they have 5 of them). Does cheezy looking woodgrain ring a bell?

    There are also many people who say the interior of the F150 is class leading...that tells me it is subjective (and bound to be influenced by a 100 mil advertising campaign) so you either like it or you don't; it is not what a great truck should be judged on.

    The Titan has only been out for less than 3 weeks...most of the "tests" have been done on pre-production models...that should say something.

    The F150 is a good truck - maybe great compared to the old F150 - but others have stepped up to the plate and surpassed it - The huge advertising campaign of Ford just hasn't let a lot of people know it. Ford will still sell a ton of the F150s, don't worry, your job is safe, Nissan doesn't even have the capability to manufacture enough Titans to even put a dent in the F150 sales - and there are enough "Ford is God" people out there to keep it there. Just don't delude yourself that this is a great truck.

    it isn't!

    it is a good truck with a very nice interior (at least on some models) that is a step up from the old F150, but not a class leader by any shot!
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