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Nissan Titan vs. Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra 1500

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Comments

  • oldharryoldharry Posts: 413
    bowke28 wrote:

    "i like the looks of the f150 better than the titan myself, but its just not as much all-around truck as the nissan. "

    What is your deffinition of an 'all around truck'? I like longbed extended cab myself, others have other needs. Does your Nissan meet them?

    That V-8 ? What is it's history? The Triton and the Vortex have been in service long enough to know how they will work, but I hesitate to buy the first year of anything. Is the auto tranny a proven unit in heavy duty service, or is it brand new?

    The Nissan may be a good truck, but to say it is a better "all around truck" than the F-150 is premature.

    Harry
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    has a knocker like both GM and Ford. Ford took care of theirs....GM? Head in the sand from what I've seen.
  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,750
    is for the imports to realize that to a truck buyer a full sized truck comes with a long bed. It also has more than one engine option. If you don't need a full sized bed it might be perfectly acceptable to order a short bed but the long bed has to be offered to be a real full sized truck. Right now Nissan is closer to a full sized truck than Toyota but like someone pointed out earlier till they offer real truck beds and options they are pretenders. While this is just my opinion I think from other truck forums there are many truck buyers that feel the same way.
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    I might partially agree with you but I wouldn't go sofar as to say Nissan is a pretender. The vast majority of trucks being sold today do not have a 8' box. The vast majority of trucks being sold do not have 6 cylinder engines. Because one or two options are not available doesn't make it a pretender. Nissan will add the option of a 8' box eventually, but it just doesn't make sense to start when they can reach the majority of the market without it.

    They will eventually add other things like 3/4 and 1 tons with a diesel option but to even suggest they do that the first year is a little much. One of the biggest differences between Japanese managed and NA managed car companies is the way they market their vehicles. The Japanese have been very successful with keeping there costs down by limiting options available. They find out what the majority of consumers want in each particular segment and they package their vehicles to match.

    It has been very successful because they are not trying to be all things to all people. For example, The "pretender" Tundra is actually a very profitable vehicle that sells very well for Toyota. It might not reach the numbers of the F150 but it makes Toyota money and that is what counts. It's number have been steadily climbing each year.

    There are many people who feel just like you, but there are also many people who don't feel that way.

    So, although I understand where you are coming from, I think the pretender label is a little harsh. I slao, tend to agree with Nissan's strategy! After all, Nissan and Toyota are making a s--tload of money and the domestics aren't.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    >>The "pretender" Tundra is actually a very profitable vehicle that sells very well for Toyota. It might not reach the numbers of the F150 but it makes Toyota money and that is what counts. It's number have been steadily climbing each year.<<

    [http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svtruck.asp]

    Don't think so. Tundra sales have never met Toyota's expectations. At 76,537 units in 2002, it has a long way to go to beat the F150s 620,197 from the same year. It only beat the Avalanche by a little over 6000 units, and the Tundra is a heck of lot more "real truck" and aesthetically appealing. Dakota, S10, and even Tacoma (117,443) outsell it.

    Dusty
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    >>After all, Nissan and Toyota are making a s--tload of money and the domestics aren't.<<

    Well, just a few years ago Nissan wasn't doing all that well. But, a point well taken. Most Asian nameplates build more on demand philosophy, the domestics build more on speculation. But that too is minor in this case.

    The real problem in the past years is the informally declared war GM is waging against Ford. GM has continued heavy rebates, even on their most popular models just to keep market share away from Ford. Ford was destined to become the largest automobile manufacturer based on its market growth of the last decade and the ego-empire just won't sit idly by and let that happen.

    GM has forsaken profit to keep its market share. Ford is still reeling from the disasterous Ford Explorer tire issue. Chrysler is colateral damage. It doesn't have the market depth to be isolated from the GM-Ford price war. With a compressed schedule of new product on the horizon, it takes Chrysler longer to recoup investments with smaller market share.

    Asian companies have the luxury at the moment if higher customer loyalty. This allows shallow or no discount scenarios and holding on to a greater portion of their market segments. If the GM-inspired price war continues into next year, the outlook for Nissan, Toyota, Honda and others could become more tentative as well.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    Based on those figures it seems Nissan just wants to match Toyota for the first year. Even if the Tundra only sells 100,000 in the states it is still making good money; but I accept your correction of my over eager exageration. :-)

    Your explantation of the demise of the profits for the American companies is interesting. You don't think the fact Ford's quality is/was crap; all the American car companies have high pension obligations, they all also have over capacity (maybe caused by trying to be everything to everybody), has anything to do with it? Just a thought.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    sounds like one import is enough for the folks in this thread!

    Just to add to the current convo: hasn't Ford laid off a bunch of workers at least two different times over the last couple of years?

    Some of my thoughts on tundra sales stem from the fact that EVERY year where I live Silverados and F-150s that retail for $32k-$35k can be had for $10k less than that. I have yet to see a rebate/mark down of more than $2500 on a tundra yet. At least down here, they are not having any trouble moving the ones they get and obviously the dealers don't have enough to go around. Now, these observations are simply that -- not good or bad toward any make.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    Well, the perverbial response from Chevrolet owners use to be that if they weren't the "best" and most "reliable" nameplate on the planet then they wouldn't be selling so well. That response is and always was as superfluous and filled with juvenile superiority as it was incorrect. However, that being said I think to state that "Ford's quality is/was crap" is an exaggeration as well.

    There are a number of factors involved with the current state of the North American automobile market. But your previous comments were directed specifically towards profit, and that answer is directly related to the current price war. Ford still maintains a commanding lead in light duty pick-ups, and does well in big trucks, too. While the entire market is depressed at the moment Ford still has roughly the same share of the market lead over GM and Chrysler as they did four years ago.

    Toyota had been in the full size LDPU market now long enough to establish a market percentage, and they have...albeit very, very small. They don't have to rely on rebates because they have never overestimated the market for their Tundra, and customer loyalty keeps their small market share stable.

    To their credit, Nissan has taken a bold step in entering the fiercely competitive fullsize LDPU segment, especially at a time of downturn in the North American market. I think Nissan will be very successful, mainly because of Toyota's arrogance. The market be damned, Toyota builds vehicles their way because they can rely heavily on loyal customers, a large percentage of them willing to accept things the Toyota way just for the privilege of owning another Toyota. Toyota has become the GM of 20-30 years ago and someday they might suffer the same fate.

    Nissan has taken a much more serious evaluation of what will sell and to do that they have made their LDPU entry very appealling to a broader range of PU buyer. They realize they are the new guys on the street with LDPU sheet metal. They realize the PU market has become very competitive, is filled with some of the best product from all of it's competition, and will have to compete on proof instead of hype.

    Many of the same comments about the Titan have been said about the new Dodge RAM: it was "butt-*** ugly." In the case of the RAM, it was the rear seating was too small, but they gave you two regular length bed sizes, something Ford didn't do. On the Titan it's the bed is too small. The RAM has established a niche in an already crowded and competitive LDPU market. Yes, Dodge's unit sales are behind that of the F150 and Silverado/Sierra, but still almost five times better than Tundra. Without expansion, the RAM facility couldn't make numbers as large as GM and Ford anyway. Even with huge rebates, Dodge at least has made profit on the RAM where GM and Ford are barely doing so.

    All of the negative comments heard so far about the Titan, just like the RAM, are predictably from people who already don't like Nissan and wouldn't be buying one if in a landslide of proof it could be proven to be the best product on the planet. That being said, statements about the Titan's prowess as a truck, real or otherwise, is just as likely to be driven by blind allegiance and tribalism as well.

    The truth is that the Titan will likely appeal to some and not others whether based on rational evaluations or plain bias. The Titan will establish it's own market share based on the degree of customer acceptance, whatever that turns out to be.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • oldharryoldharry Posts: 413
    Truck market share may be irrellevent to some extent. The shift from passenger cars to class II vehicles has slowed, but is continuing. Nissan may carve out their niche, while sales of the domestics increases at the expense of sedans (mostly domestic).

    I do not think the F-Series and the Silverado/Sierra sales will decline as a percentage of total vehicle sales in 2004. If the Titan is VERY succesful, it will motivate the domestics to improve their products, and we (customers) will all win.

    Harry
  • kg11kg11 Posts: 530
    If the Titan is VERY succesful, it will motivate the domestics...and we will all win.

    Some say the Tundra is very succesful for Toyota, and Toyota may be satisfied, but they haven't motivated the domestics much.

    Hopefully, this new genuine full sized entry from Nissan will change that and as you said, "we all win"

    kip
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    nissan salespeople will win! ;-)
  • kg11kg11 Posts: 530
    We ALL win
  • I currently own a Nissan PU (the older hardbody style), and though I have been comtemplating a full size truck for somewhile, I intentionally waited for the Titan to come out before deciding. And now the decision is even harder. I do like the Titan, as far as stying (interior and exterior), but I really still like the Z71 as far as interior room and some small features (dual climate control, turn signals in mirrors, etc..). But the one that I cannot let go is the interior space issue. I was hoping the Titan King Cab would have as much rear leg room as the Chevy or GMC extended cabs, but that is not the case. The GM's have about 6 inches more leg room in the back seat to keep your knees out of the back of the front seat or force the driver or front seat passenger to be uncomfortably close to the dashboard. The dimensions are compared on Edmunds, and sitting in them you can really feel it too.

    So, the head scratching will have to continue for awhile until I decide, or the price is cut so low for the Titan that I just can't pass it up.
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    If that is the case then Either GM is listing their rear legroom at less than what it is, or Nissan is listed as too much.

    The actual Specs form GM Canada website:

    Rear leg room 856/33.7 (mm/in.)(extended cab)

    Nissan Specs

    Rear Leg room 33.0 in. (king Cab)

    The CC specs are, GM 39.1 in.
                      Nissan 40.4 in.

    I wonder which one is posted wrong?
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    I compared the Titan KC and GMC Extended Cab on Edmunds and they have them listed as above; esentially the same size. Are you sure you weren't comparing the CC GM and the KC Titan. There is approx. 6 in difference there.
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    what i think happened.
  • Isn't Toyota coming out with a new engine for the 05 Tundra. I read somewhere that it displaces somewhere between 5.4 and 5.6 Liters and will produce 300+ Hp.
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    thats the rumor, but every time toyota boasts about something upcoming, especially in the HP dept, they always disappoint.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,726
    I'll be there on the 7th & 8th. Should be fun! :)

    Bob
  • Anybody else disapointed with the posted MSRP of the new Chevy Crew Cab? They announced a starting MSPR of 31,000 for an LS 4X2. It seems to me the Titan is cheaper, more powerful, quieter and with more std. features. I was really interested in the new chevy crew b/c of my GM card savings and a possible customer loyalty $1000 rebate later on this year, but with this pricing it prob won't be worth it.
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    i agree. we have a titan XE crew cab 4x4, and the MSRP is at $29k. this has power everything and a 6 disc changer.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    Most of the crewcabs sell near or at invoice. If you haven't been to a dealer, I suggest checking it out. On top of that there are low interest or 0% interest financing or huge rebates.
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    but what does all the incentives do to the value of a used one? (hears a plane crashing)
  • Have you seen any available at the dealers? I thought they weren't rolling them out until Feb. or March, and I figured that chevy wouldn't heavily rebate or even offer a rebate on these new shortbox crews.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    Sorry thought you were talking about the HD.
  • Here in Texas, esp. the part I'm from the 1500HD's are very popular. I would hesitate to say I could get a dealer here down to invoice on one of those. They are a nice solid truck, but more than I need and prob. out of my price range. I was hoping the new short box's would be priced more competitively with Ford and Nissan. I got the news on the shortbox crew pricing from an automotive journal, I don't think I can post the webaddress, but they got their info. from a GM press release so it should be easy to find.

    Like I said before, I am inclined to buy a Chevy b/c of my GM card rewards ($1500 max down on a silverado) and loyalty bonus (my dad owns a sierra and the bonus is transferrable to anyone in the family, and I think I might be able to stack another $400 on b/c I am in graduate school.

    All that sounds like a lot of discounts, but I'd imagine those dealers aren't going to budge on MSRP for a while on those new short box's.
  • Does Nissan have any programs like the GM card, or loyalty reward?

    I know Ford discontinued theirs and Dodge has a fairly new one.

    Thanks
  • ssmilesssmiles Posts: 35
    I ordered one from my dealer in California on 12/15/2003. I was advised they would go into production at the Ontario, Canada plant starting after the New Year's holiday. Chevy's media website http://www.media.gm.com/division/chevrolet/

    has press releases stating the msrp's and also states first ones would begin to arrive at dealers by end of January. I chose a Z71 model loaded with all but the DVD system and engine block heater. Hopefully some good incentives will be in place whenever delivery day comes. Local ads state 0% for 5 years or $2500 cash back ends today.
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