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Honda S2000 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I agree with accelerator, does not sound like a good deal. I'm a buyer, not a leasor, but here's my analysis:

    You are paying $16,520 for three years / 36k miles of use on a car that you could buy outright for $29,000 + taxes. I bought a 2002 S2000 in November 2001 and traded it in May 2004 w/ 18,000 miles for $23,200. If you actually keep the car for 3 years and put $36k on it, you might not get that on resale, but I'd be shocked if you couldn't get at least $20-$21k, probably more. Meaning that if you buy or $29k and (guessing) your taxes and fees are $2k for a total of $31k, you should be able to drive the car for three years for a total of around $10k in depreciation.

    I'd buy under that scenario.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,652
    I agree... maybe not the best lease deal... but, that comparison doesn't factor in finance charges..

    To do an even comparison, you have to assume that you are borrowing the purchase price, less any downpayment. Even with that, I'd buy as well..

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • acceleratoraccelerator Posts: 136
    For Financing, not Leasing:

    I know how to figure Tax but what about the Title, License, and other fees... is there a precent ratio or a dollar amount that you can figure? Typically, I use 10% of the selling cost to account for TTL and other fees.

    e.g.:
    In Texas, the tax is .0625%
    so if a car sells for $20,000
    Sales Tax: $20000 * .0625 = $1,250
    Title/License/Other Fees: $2,000 - $1,250 = $750

    Does this work for you guys?
  • This is correct. I found out about the dealer cash through the Costco buying program while we were purchasing an Accord for my mother in law. Costco requires the dealer to pass any factory to dealer incentives to the customer. Thus, the Costco pricing in the Chicagoland area on an '07 was Invoice plus $250 minus $2,000... worked out to $29,855 I believe.

    I think some dealers are willing to sell at invoice less the $2,000 or even willing to cut into holdback if they have lots of inventory. Unfortunately when I purchased my S2000 a couple weeks ago I was unaware of the $2k incentive (not listed on the Edmund's page of incentives for the car, whereas the $750 for the Accord is listed), so thought I was getting a good deal at about invoice less holdback (~$30,400). I knew they were still making money on me somehow, but had no idea it was $2000... Lesson learned, always check with the Costco dealer first, even if they don't have a single car on the lot.
  • lazybotlazybot Posts: 7
    Edmunds doesn't show any for the S2k.

    But it looks like there's at least $2000 available. Is that Marketing Support?

    Honda Dealer Holdback is only 3% of MSRP.

    Any other discounts out there?
  • 23109vc23109vc Posts: 218
    i've run through these "should i buy" or "should I lease" scenarios over and over.

    if you get a good enough lease deal...you have the ability to play the "market" so to speak. if at the end of the lease, the car is worth MORE than your residual - then buy it. you could techincally then sell it privately and make a buck or two. if the car is worth LESS than the residual, turn it in.

    here is why leasing is attractive to me. to buy a new car -given the prices of cars - most people can't afford to finance them over 3-4 years. i bet MANY people are doing 6+ years financing. then the car depreciates, and when they are 3 y ears into their car they are LUCKY if they have broken even...they may still be upside down.

    the cars warranty has now expired, and now you are making car payments on a car AND you are making repairs.

    why not just get a good lease term, and know what you car payment is. the car is under warranty - your only expense is gas, tires, brake pads, and the payment. when the lease is up you turn it in. no timing belts, no water pumps, no clutches, no nothin'.

    if you only keep the car three years and you BUY - you'd need to buy a car that REALLY holds it's value - to not wind up upside down if you buy and do traditional financing with little to no money down.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    With the lease you lose the acquisition fee, which I think with AHFC is $595 - you have to factor that in to the lease VS buy numbers.

    The S2000 HAD strong resale value - so the 2001 I got used for $24,500 brought me $19,500 trade in for my 2005 after 2+ years and 15k miles of driving. You can't count on that type of return NOW - they are just too plentiful on the used market and Honda can't sell the new ones without lease deals and/or dealer incentives. I got my 2005 almost 2 years ago for invoice including dealer fees - and they gave me what I wanted for the 2001 and Honda leased it to me for less than 2% MF. Can't hardly beat that. If I had purchased the new S, it would be a lot more money out of pocket each month and at a much higher rate - even with the acq fee factored in.

    You have a choice at lease end, buy for residual, turn in, or sell it (via a dealer) to someone else if it is worth more than residual. You can also sell it to a dealer or even trade it in at any time for no harm IF the current lease buy out is less than or equal to the market value. Back when the resale was strong, this was just about any time during the lease :D

    With the current $2k dealer money, but high "normal" lease rates you either need to do a 3rd party lease or just do a purchase.

    Sales hurl and are getting worse - even with the $2k dealer money. I expect to see either more money and/or the return of the cheap lease.

    BTW, depending on which price guide you use the current buy out on my 05 lease is within $200 of trade in value. So if they bring back the cheap lease, I might be able to upgrade without any negative equity. I would not do it with the current high rate - even with $2k under invoice.

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    These numbers are:

    April 07, April 06, % change, YTD 07, YTD 06, % change.

    S2000 533 645 -10.5% 1,378 1,987 -30.6%

    Even with the $2k dealer money they only moved 533 cars last month, down 10.5% from last year. YTD is even worse, down nearly 31%.

    Either more dealer money, cheap financing/lease, or both may be coming this month?????

    Dennis
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Honda S2000 sales are down, but, as best I can tell, it appears that so is production/supply. There are a couple of Honda dealerships I pass regularly and they have fewer S2000's sitting on their lot than the did several years ago when the car was selling for MSRP or above. It's the classic Boston Consulting Group strategy of turning your "star" into a "cash cow".

    In some ways, it's a testiment to the S2000 that it could be introduced in 1999 and still be considered a highly competitive serious sports car in 2007 with only a few minor changes in the intervening 8 years. It's too bad Honda as a company wasn't more committed to the sports car segment. Had they continued to develop and upgrade the S2000 the way Porsche has with the Boxster, they would probably still be selling them at full MSRP+. It's kind of hard to get the press to continue to gush over the S2000 when an 8 year old road test is still current.

    Personally, in the words of Neil Young, I'd rather see the S2000 "burn out" with a big final year model push than "fade away" with scaled back production, rebates and lethargic sales. The NSX suffered an undignified death as well. Seems that Honda/Acura did great in producing two superlative cars, but lost focus/interest in the later stages of their lifecycle.
  • acceleratoraccelerator Posts: 136
    Hey Dwynne,

    I know you and I have been chatting regularly here so I wanted to run this by you....

    Two scenarios
    1) 2003 Red S2000 with less than 3000 miles and is in pristine condition with an asking price of $23,999. I can probably get them to come down 500 but I imagine that would be it.

    2) 2006 Laguna Blue with less than 4500 miles and it too is perfect, no blemishes, tires still have the little "strings" on them. No rubber stuck to the wheel wells, etc. Very well taken care of care (customer broke 3 year lease, 2 years early and I verified it). Asking $25,250 through a wholesaler. I might be able to get him to come down $500 but I really doubt it; we haven't discussed numbers yet.

    My question is which is the better deal/value? Blue is my preference but red is my second choice. I wont be auto crossing. And the 2006 has the VSA, 2 cup holders ;) and is still under warranty. The 2003 has the infamous 9k red line and stiffer suspension, and cheaper to insure. I've talked with many many many s2000 owners and the ones that have taken care of their cars have all had the same result with excellent quality so I'm not toooooo terribly concerned about the warranty. I'm thinking the 2006 would be best for me but monthly payment is higher... oh what to do... I'm waiting until tomorrow (05/03/2007) to see if Honda announces any new incentives and if they do, then there may be a 3rd option to consider. :cry:

    My salesperson did say the manufacturer to dealer incentive ($2000) has been extended but he didn't say how long. Has Honda ever done both an dealer incentive AND a lease incentive concurrently? My dealer is passing the incentive to the customer.

    You may have to fish through my ramblings to figure out what I'm asking. ;)
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,652
    If the '06 model is less than $2000 more than the '03, it is a no-brainer.... get the newer car. Plus, you'll have warranty.. no warranty on that '03.

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    I always wanted an NSX, but I could never afford one (and really could not fit in it since the driver's area is tiny - much tighter than the S).

    In a recent AutoWeek they reported from the NY auto show the S2000 CR "The CR hits dealerships this fall". So maybe the S2000 will live on? Hopefully in more than just the track version CR.

    Link to story with pic

    The new lease deals are up on the Honda page and the S2000 deal is not hot. It comes in at 6.84% effective rate. I was shocked it was not more. The pre-figured deal has the car going for under invoice, so they are probably still doing the $2k dealer money.

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    I had an 01 and now have an 05. The 2.2l motor is easier to drive and still fun, the older 2.0l meter was more "fun" when you could wind it up (which is not as much as you would think). It is more "raw" and sometimes I miss it.

    The newer cars have larger wheels and tires and better stability (even without the electronic assist). Even driving at less than ten tenths the older S2000s could sneak around on you. Just out goofing off I went into a decreasing radius corner a little too fast and the next thing I know I am fighting to keep the rear of the car behind me :surprise: . A lot better in the newer design. The upgraded interior is nice too.

    The new lease numbers are up and the effective rate is 6.84%, so no big help there.

    I would buy a new 07 with the $2k off - you might could get it for invoice less the whole $2k if you find the right dealer. That puts you not that much more than a used one, and if you are financing you save on the interest rate (usually a good bit cheaper rate on a new car than a used one).

    Of the choices you have here, the 06 is the one to get.

    Dennis
  • rujorujo Posts: 132
    Pricing info FYI: Received an unsolicited email today from a SF Bay Area dealer with this price.
  • acceleratoraccelerator Posts: 136
    My local dealer is saying $28,500 plus TTL. I say it is a legit offer from your dealer. I'm shopping around for a Laguna Blue and to see if any dealer will beat my $28500. My local dealer doesn't have a blue one but can transfer one in for $275... That is just $275 I'd rather not pay. :)
  • rujorujo Posts: 132
    My local dealer is saying $28,500 plus TTL.

    This is good news - looks like prices are dropping into the invoice less $3000 range. What part of the country are you in?
  • acceleratoraccelerator Posts: 136
    I had an '82 Toyota Celica Supra and did that once (decreasing turn) and as hard as I fought, I wasn't able to keep the rear behind me... I did end up going into the ditch just between two light poles... all I could think about was that I didn't want to become a statistic (I was 16). By my skillful driving (because all 16 years have the skill of good ole Mario Andretti), I managed to steer clear of the poles and to safety.

    Back to the toic, I went to look at the 06 and apparently it was car going to auction. It turned out to have 4500 miles instead of 7500 miles and was in prestine condition... on the outside. Inside, the speakers were blown, the compartment between the two seats were broken and the kicker, the vin tags on the fenders appeared to have been scratched at. The trunk and the hood didn't seem to close tightly so I figure 1) somebody abused the hell out of it or 2) it was a theft recovery. The small items were no big deal, but the fact that the vin tags were scratched at really concerned me. Anyone ever hear of this before? Why might a person do this?
  • jimhemijimhemi Posts: 223
    Whoa, wait. I came in here new to this. Are you saying you can get a new 2007 S2000 for $28,500???
  • jimhemijimhemi Posts: 223
    Does anyone know of any rebates/dealer incentives on 2005 or 2006 S2000's? DO they exist or just a urban legend on this car? I can't find any on this site and some others.
  • acceleratoraccelerator Posts: 136
    Assuming you are talking about new, good luck finding a new '05. I've seen 2 2006's that were new, but there weren't any incentives on them. Banks view a new '06 as a used vehicle in terms of lease so it is probably wiser (and cheaper) to find an 07.
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