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2005/2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee & Wagoneer

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Comments

  • wlbrown9wlbrown9 Posts: 843
    See post #25. It sayes that the Grand Cherokee will only be available in 5 passenger. Goes on to say the one with the 3rd row will be developed separately. Don't know if this is correct or not. went to WKJEEPS.COM and found the following under WK milestones:
      
    July 2005

    Production startup for a new 7-passenger Jeep ("Wagoneer" or "Commander"). To be based on the 2005 Grand Cherokee platform but with very different sheetmetal.

    Anyone know the real story from Jeep/DC on this?
  • tloke1tloke1 Posts: 185
    Also on WKJeeps.com, a quote from CEO Dieter Zetsche per the separate 7-passenger version:

    "...the company will produce a separate nameplate with its own identity and sheet metal. That vehicle will debut in the fall of 2005 as a 2006 model."

    "There was strong agreement that the important characteristics of the Grand Cherokee are its nimbleness and compact dimensions," Zetsche said. "We definitely did not want to sacrifice those." The plan is for both vehicles to share the same platform, he said. "Rather than having an extended version like some competitors, we will go with a stand-alone nameplate," he said. "We will have a much wider scope with two vehicles having different characteristics than just short and long wheelbases."
  • brannonbrannon Posts: 2
    Well, here’s my 2-cents. I have been a Proud Jeep owner for over 30 years. Between my brothers and I, we have had: J-20’s, CJ’s, one Scrambler, a Grand Wagoneer, one Comanche, 3 Wranglers, 5 Cherokees, and 2 Grand Cherokees. We have had Fords, Chevys, Toyotas, a Ram Power Wagon and Nissan is just a Toyota wanabe…and a good friend of mine drives a BMW M5, nice, but don’t get it dirty. So, I know the competition. Currently, I drive a 2001 Grand Limited in Steel Blue/Taupe…

    Ok, on to the current topic. My votes not in on the 2005. I’m a little late to this discussion board and I’ve only had a few days to look over the pictures of it. Didn’t make it to any auto shows that featured the 2005 GC, so I haven’t seen it in person either. From what most of you have stated, I guess you really have to see it. I have to say that I’m a little disappointed with the design, some of the changes and the elimination of some important standard features. I guess I’ll have to see it. We all know the little quirks with the Grand. Every vehicle has them, including Toyota and Nissan. My 2001, as many have said before, is the best looking and most distinctive SUV, on or off the road. It is luxurious and elegant yet masculine. It is a near perfect example of form following function. The design flows from its distinctive grill to its sculpted rear end. Every piece of it fits together…I don’t see that on many other vehicles and not yet on the 2005. Where the hell did the 1999 design team go? I’m afraid now that the 2005 looks like everything else…

    I have been waiting, like most of you, for a long time to see where Jeep will go with the design. A Few years ago, I started writing down my ideas, I thought they should keep the Grand in the same size range and make a larger vehicle to compete with other manufactures. Over the last two years, I actually sent in several letters to DC with suggestions that included many safety, mechanical, and operator oriented enhancements (well over 100) that would benefit the NEW Grand Cherokee and keep it well ahead of the competition…never once did I get a response.

    I even asked if Jeep had ever sent out questionnaires to current and past owners to gather input? Have any of you ever received one? I know that other automobile manufactures have, because I have received them and answered them and I have witnessed the changes... (weather I influenced the change or not...). Many of the items in my letters are in the 2005 GC. However, most of my ideas were just common sense to me and some were features in other SUV’s as well.

    Oh, I’ll buy one…cause it’s a Jeep, what the hell else is there…

    Question! I’ve read everything I can find and have had no luck locating any towing info. Does anybody know the figures? It had better be a big improvement…my fingers are crossed.

    Jeep…Tread lightly…and go your own way!

    BM
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,913
    Hi brannon, and welcome to Town Hall! So glad to have another Jeep enthusiast around - our current "king" of Jeep enthusiasts is tsjay. He tends to hang out in one of the current Jeep discussions.

    Anyway... I've not heard any towing figures for the Jeep yet. In fact, Edmunds.com doesn't list any of the specs yet :(

    I have a Chrysler vehicle, and I haven't received surveys on future models. But, my brother-in-law works in the biz/marketing branch of Chrysler, and he does ask around, informally, for opinions, and says his supervisors want these comments. I don't know what their formal consumer insight plan is, though.

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  • nabornabor Posts: 6
    Curious what changes you would like to see in the new jeep. I own an 02 limited w/quadradrive. It took me a while to get used to the rumble of the V8 and the quadadrive whines a little, but I love the vehicle. One thing I would like to see is a folddown armrest in the backseat for comfort and rear ac/heat. Also like to have one button from the driver's side that would control all the power windows both up and down simultaneously.

    TF
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Let me get this straight.

       The thing is 5" longer, with a 3" longer wheelbase, and is an inch wider.

       BUT, ground clearance is down to 8" at the rear axle, cargo volume is down 10 %, and legroom is virtually the same, and headroom is the same! The only increase will be the price!

       Seems the Hemi is all that changed! Where is this thing going? The interior volumes aren't all that different from the cheaper Liberty!

       DrFill
  • tloke1tloke1 Posts: 185
    The point is that "bigger is not always better". Jeep research show that one of the things that current Grand Cherokee owners did NOT want changed was its nimble size. And I agree, the current size is perfect. There are plenty of other "supersize" SUV's out there for those that want or need them.

    There is a LOT more that has changed than just the addition of the Hemi engine. Electronic Limited Slip Differentials, new transfer cases, new NAV system, new Boston Acoustics audio system, new rack-and-pinion steering system, a new hydraulic-controlled active stabilizer system for significantly reduced body roll and smoother ride (DHS), Electronic Stability Program (ESP) for maintaining vehicle directional stability, a new more powerful V6 engine, and the list goes on and on. Ride, handling and power will be a night-and-day difference over the current generation.

    The new GC will be "Best-in-class" in a lot of areas and will be one of the best mid-size SUV's out there. Better than the Toyota 4Runner, Ford Explorer, Chevrolet Trailblazer, Nissan and everyone else in the mid SUV segment.
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Posts: 487
    definitely sound interesting, but if DrFill is correct, it is distressing that the vehicle has grown without a corresponding increase in passenger room and a decline in cargo room.

    A longer vehicle, longer wheelbase, and lower ground clearance all damage the off road capability. I have to agree, what is the point in a bigger vehicle with less cargo room?
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    It'll have more features and more power.

       Well, if it's better than the 4Runner that'll be an accomplishment.

       DrFill
  • tloke1tloke1 Posts: 185
    The ground clearance is a little lower, less than 3/4" difference from the prior model. The vehicle is 5" longer, but that was required for the new improved bumper design and also to fit the new 325hp Hemi engine. As for the 4Runner, the new GC pretty much makes it outdated.
  • brannonbrannon Posts: 2
    Thanks kirstie_h and TF, I’m glad to be here. Wish I had found this site earlier.

    First off, I need to fix a typo. I didn’t buy my first Jeep when I was 10, the “30 years” should be 20. Sometimes I can’t type worth a damn…anyway…

    Please let me know where the other Jeep discussions are… I’ll look for tsjay’s comments.

    I’m still looking for towing info, so I’ll post it when I find something…please do likewise. The new 4x4 Durango, with the Hemi, can pull 8,700 lbs. That is minus the weight of all occupants, cargo, and options. That leaves it around 7,400 lbs. I’m hoping that after all the adjustments in payload, the 2005 GC will have a towing limit of between 7,500 and 8,000 lbs…hopefully.

    TF… I could post my ideas I guess. If anyone wants to see them, just let me know, its not like they are patented…Ha. It would be interesting to hear some of your opinions. Most are just simple little things like your interesting window switch...I like that one. I have an engineering and mechanical background. Just like every average guy, I really enjoy going to auto shows and dealers just to look at all the new stuff and ideas. I have to laugh at some manufacturers and wonder what were they thinking. The heated rear seats and a rear seat armrest are on my list. The rear seat armrest was standard on the 1998 5.9 Limited. I have seen an armrest in a few pictures of the 2005. Hopefully, my ideas will make it to the Commander or Grand Wagoneer. Most of my ideas are simple enhancements and I also included a lost of what NOT to change.

    Don’t get me wrong. I truly love my 2001 GC. I have almost 80,000 miles on it and put over 45,000 on my 97 GC. I’ve driven them a lot. When I travel, I rent the competition to test them out as well.

    As for the nice rumble…you gota have that. I have a Camry and sometimes I can’t tell if the things even running.

    B
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    That's rich. The 4Runner outdated.

       It has more room and groung clearance than the GC, and has HDC and Uphill Assist. I thing the Runner is better looking, and of course, will hold it's value better.

       The GC has the Hemi and Quadra Drive. I like it, but lets calm down.

       And what's up with those headlights? Talk about Queer Eye!

       DrFill
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,913
    brannon, tsjay mostly hangs out in the Jeep Wrangler discussion. We do have a lot of Jeep-related conversation in Town Hall, and the easiest way to find those forums is to use the vehicle make drop-down menu at the left. Cheers!

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  • tloke1tloke1 Posts: 185
    "It has more room and ground clearance than the GC"

    True, the 4Runner has a little more ground clearance, but not by much - less than 3/4".

    As far as the interior, the new Jeep is equal or larger in headroom, legroom, shoulder room and hip room - both front and back. The new GC will also have a much better towing rating due in part to the high-torque Hemi engine (370 ft.-Lbs vs the 4Runner's 282)
  • tbcreativetbcreative Posts: 357
    You need to state the proper comparison facts. Actually the 4Runner has just over an inch more ground clearance than the new GC. A 4WD, with 16" or 17" tires, is rated at 9.1". One aspect of ground clearance that most people forget about, for those of us who actually take our trucks off-road, is the rocker height. The 4Runner has a lot more than the current GC, and I imagine, the new one as well. And I am talking about the actual rocker, without the running boards.

    And while the V6 is rated at 282 lbs/ft, the V8 is rated at 320 lbs/ft. Granted it's not as much as the Hemi, but it's closer. So lets match apples to apples, shall we?

    I'm really confused by your "outdated" statement, though. It really makes no sense. The 4Runner is one of the most contemporary, up-to-date SUVs on the road, for the money. It has won all types of off-road awards, and has set the benchmark for SUV standards. Will the new GC have more features that will surpass those of the 4Runner? Maybe. About the only features I'm impressed by are the new 4x4 system and the cylinder reduction system of the Hemi. Will that push it ahead of the pack, making the 4Runner "outdated?" I highly doubt it, because, as callmedrfill stated, it will not have the build quality or resale value of a Toyota. Will it force GM and Ford to step their SUVs up a few notches? You betcha.

    Again, let's compare apples to apples. The 4Runner is in another league.
  • tloke1tloke1 Posts: 185
    "the V8 is rated at 320 lbs/ft. Granted it's not as much as the Hemi, but it's closer. So lets match apples to apples, shall we?"

    It wasn't intentional that I inadvertently gave the V6 torque ratings. But even +50 ft.-lbs. more of torque is very significant. Looking at power, the 4Runner with only 235hp vs the Hemi's 325, almost 100hp difference. Night and day.

    "as callmedrfill stated, it will not have the build quality or resale value of a Toyota. Will it force GM and Ford to step their SUVs up a few notches? You betcha."

    No one knows what the resale value will be on the new Grand Cherokee, so who can say that it will or will not be "better" than comparable 4Runner models. The new V6 4Runner has suffered with many quality problems, not to mention the severe sulphur problem on both V6 and V8 models, factors which will affect the 4Runner resale value. And who really cares about the difference in resale value between vehicles such as these? I would never base my buying decision on that factor at all as the difference after 5 or 6 years is really negligible. There are a lot more important things to consider when buying vehicles.

    And not only will GM and Ford be forced to "step their SUVs up a few notches" for future models, Toyota will be forced to as well. I'm sure the Toyota engineers are already hard at work trying to design a more pleasant-looking 4Runner as well as a more modern and more powerful engine. Hopefully they are also working on redesigning the interior. Fixing those problems certainly would result in a noticeable increase in sales. The 4Runner is a decent vehicle with some great features, too bad it's so poorly designed.
  • brian211brian211 Posts: 69
    Am currently in the market for a vehicle. Was torn between the durango, explorer, envoy and 4runner. With the price of gas over $2, I am reconsidering moving to a midsize suv. I have a jeep,dodge,chrysler,mitsu dealer accross the street. Looked at endeavor, liberty, cherokee and pacifica. Never liked cherokee or its reviews. With the new 05 model being upgraded and reading your thoughts, should I wait and consider the 05 model? Your input is appreciated. Also looking at the ford 05 escape. I'm in queens ny. Anyone know metro-star dealers?
  • dwrestledwrestle Posts: 72
    If the 4 Runner is higher off the ground, it can't touch the Grand Cherokee or any other Jeep off road anyway, talk about apples and oranges. If you want to compare a Jeep to something compare it to something that can match it off road or at least come close like a Land Rover, or a Hummer.
  • tloke1tloke1 Posts: 185
    You're right about the GC being superior to the 4Runner off-road. You can add "on-road" to the list as well. There's a ton of reasons why the GC outsells the 4Runner by 2-1, it's unquestionably a much better vehicle.
  • secret12ssecret12s Posts: 6
    brian211, I don't know your market or what your primary use will be for an SUV. For me, I enjoy off-road driving as well as the feel of what I like to refer to as a REAL SUV. I am a Jeep Driver, and love it. Remember this is my personal opinion and should be taken as that only. With that said, If you are to purchase a Jeep, make sure it is a 4x4, otherwise it really isn't worth buying as there are many great 2WD SUV's on the market. 4x4 is where Jeep lives. You really have to experience a 4x4 Jeep off-road, and then compare it to other off-road SUV's. You will feel a very comparable difference. But, if your sole purpose is to just keep to the pavement, and drive thru some parks and grass, get an explorer or the escape you are looking at, but I wouldnt classify an escape as mid-size. If you do decide to wait for the '05 then my input would be to get a 4x4 at least if you go with Jeep, if not, go with another brand. I know 4 Runners are good, but I am not aware of their latest models, of course explorers are always a good reliable 2WD vehicle.
        As for everyone trying to compare the 4 runner to the JGC, you really are comparing two completely different vehicles. For one, the current JGC has an extremely dated engine in today's standards, the 4 runner is in about the same boat. When I say this I mean their standard engines not the upgraded optional V8's or what not. But tried and true, the older 4 runners are workhorses, not alot of power or torque, but they just seem to keep on going, on and off road. As for trying to compare the JGC to a 4 runner, well you are looking at a true off-road legend in Jeep, and a very adequate off-road capable SUV with luxury standards stuffed in the interior. But when it's all said and done, if you gave me a choice to drive through the most rugged off-road conditions and I had to pick between the two. I would feel capable in both, but have more confidence in the Jeep. Again, this is all my opinion, and nothing more, I speak from experience with my own personal JGC and the travels I have been through in it.
  • secret12ssecret12s Posts: 6
    brian211, I don't know your market or what your primary use will be for an SUV. For me, I enjoy off-road driving as well as the feel of what I like to refer to as a REAL SUV. I am a Jeep Driver, and love it. Remember this is my personal opinion and should be taken as that only. With that said, If you are to purchase a Jeep, make sure it is a 4x4, otherwise it really isn't worth buying as there are many great 2WD SUV's on the market. 4x4 is where Jeep lives. You really have to experience a 4x4 Jeep off-road, and then compare it to other off-road SUV's. You will feel a very comparable difference. But, if your sole purpose is to just keep to the pavement, and drive thru some parks and grass, get an explorer or the escape you are looking at, but I wouldnt classify an escape as mid-size. If you do decide to wait for the '05 then my input would be to get a 4x4 at least if you go with Jeep, if not, go with another brand. I know 4 Runners are good, but I am not aware of their latest models, of course explorers are always a good reliable 2WD vehicle.
        As for everyone trying to compare the 4 runner to the JGC, you really are comparing two completely different vehicles. For one, the current JGC has an extremely dated engine in today's standards, the 4 runner is in about the same boat. When I say this I mean their standard engines not the upgraded optional V8's or what not. But tried and true, the older 4 runners are workhorses, not alot of power or torque, but they just seem to keep on going, on and off road. As for trying to compare the JGC to a 4 runner, well you are looking at a true off-road legend in Jeep, and a very adequate off-road capable SUV with luxury standards stuffed in the interior. But when it's all said and done, if you gave me a choice to drive through the most rugged off-road conditions and I had to pick between the two. I would feel capable in both, but have more confidence in the Jeep. Again, this is all my opinion, and nothing more, I speak from experience with my own personal JGC and the travels I have been through in it.
  • brian211brian211 Posts: 69
    Thanks for the advice. My intentions are not to use it off road. However, I'm in ny and would like the safety of a 4x4 or awd in wintry conditions. Most have told me about dc's poor reliability. The cherokee for 05 is supposed to be very much improved. The escape, I like but its only awd when required. The liberty seems to have a hesitation problem. Pacifica owners seem to like the car. Do you think the 05 cherokee would be best way to go? Even looked at rubicon.
  • loganross1loganross1 Posts: 1
    OK,
    here is the deal. I owned a 96 GC and a '00 GC. I bought the '00 because i loved the first one and wanted a few extras. Well, I hated the '00 GC. I even turned it in early because I disliked it so much. I had to have an unreasonable number of repairs made for a car with 30k miles. In addition, it never felt safe. I always felt that it was going to tip and that when I went around curves on the highway, it would dip to the front outside corner. Not to mention the extremely annoying axle whine between 50 and 70 mph. My wife, who also loved my first GC, would not drive the '00.

    Fast forward to today, we want to know about '05 GC safety: We have been buying GM (Caddy Catera, CTS, etc.)and are looking for a four wheel drive. Had been planning on buying Caddy SRX until I saw that GC had been redesigned. Jeep's site is lousy with respect to the new GC. It only has listed the "nice, nice" features. I want to know the important things: air bags, ROLLOVER protection, etc.
    Can anyone help?
  • magic313magic313 Posts: 4
    To those of you trying to compare JGC to 4Runner - NEWSFLASH! They are not of the same caliber. Keep the JGC where it belongs. Compared to the other poor quality American SUV's. I have an 04 4Runner w/4.7L V8 (same as LX470) all-wheel drive & will put it against anything Detroit can "throw" together. Let me know how well you like your GM, Ford or Dodge at 50K miles.I prefer quality, style, REFINEMENT & resale value.
    Thank you
  • tloke1tloke1 Posts: 185
    magic313, if you prefer "style" you should not have bought a 4Runner, considered by many to be one of the ugliest vehicles out there (if you doubt that just read all the posts on Edmunds around the time of the 2003 intro).

    As far as resale value, that remains to be seen on the new 4Runners. They have been plagued with problems, including unsolveable issues like the infamous "sulphur" fiasco. Even Consumer Reports rated the new 4Runner V6 models "unacceptable" so I wouldn't be bragging about "reliability". Read through the 4Runner boards here and you will find more problem issues on the new 4Runner than you can count.

    As far as your 4Runner being "the same as a LX470" that is stretching things a bit. While there are the obvious similarities you are talking apple and oranges. Or, should I say "bananas and oranges"?
  • magic313magic313 Posts: 4
    Magic313 again. I said my 4runner has the same 4.7L engine under the hood as my wifes LX470. NOT same vehicle & not comparing ride quality. You say the 4Runner is "ugly" hhhhhmmmm Must be a "Ford man" hehe. My main point is the "Big 3" (GM, Ford & Chrysler) should not even be considered in a comparison when Japan & German engineering are involved. GM technology is behind 5 years, Chrysler products are disposable at 50K miles & Ford should stay on the farm.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Posts: 417
    Saw four of these driving down Topanga Canyon last week. Pretty good looking SUV. Much bigger then the old Cherokee.
  • tloke1tloke1 Posts: 185
    Just curious as to where you get your data claiming that Chrysler products are "only good for 50K?". That statement is totally false. And you are saying that "Japanese and German engineering" are superior? How much German engineering would you suppose goes in to DAIMLERChrysler products?

    As I mentioned, take a look around the 4Runner boards and read about the horrendous amount of problems that the 03-04 models have experienced. If you could report back after that about how "good" Japanese engineering is, I would love to hear about it.

    The new 2005 Grand Cherokee will outperform and outclass the '03/'04 4Runner in many many ways. For starters, the 5.7 Hemi will leave any 4Runner buried in the dust. The new GC has a list of superior features a mile long. The 3rd gen 4Runner, designed in 2001, is starting to get outdated already.
  • magic313magic313 Posts: 4
    True the 5.7 HEMI packs more HP & torque than the 4.7L BUT how often is it truly used? When compared to refinement & residual value there is no comparison. Do you know the 4Runner still uses solid axle & Explorer has independent suspension & ALL reviews gave the Runner better ride quality. Secret is in the frame. You say "out-dated"? Isn't the new JGC the old w/a Liberty front end & taillights??? Do yourself a favor - test drive a Runner, Durango, Explorer & Trail Blazer (as I have) then give your true feelings. A Toyota or BMW can only be appreciated AFTER driving the so-called "competition"
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