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Toyota Tundra vs. Nissan Titan

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  • Been there since febuary of last year.....its my most frequented site by far, the information and community is nothing short of spectacular
  • boomer1bboomer1b Posts: 348
    Some the tundra problems posted there worry me about "percieved" toyota quality.

    Some of the same beefs you would see about X brand of any truck ! Brake rotors, paint, cold start knock, cheap interiors, poor dealer service, etc. etc.............

    I think its the luck of the draw on any brand you purchase or dealer nowadays !
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    you missed the point completely.

    if i have this choice:

    spend more for a bigger engine or not.

    my thinking is this:
    if i buy more engine, i can get ALOT more by buying the ford than buying the toyota.

    if i DONT want to buy more engine, i get the TOP engine by buying nissan.

    the problem is this, and i understand the loyalty to toyota, but they have dropped the ball on full size trucks since they tried 10 years ago with the t100. they just dont get the fact that american truck buyers WANT the best #'s.

    if they ever decide to actually do something to compete, it will be a great thing...but until then, they remain a step behind the rest.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    of all this smack talking. Bowke, you sound exactly like a Nissan dealer working at a dealership that sells Fords too. Ironic, huh.

    Can you honestly sit there and tell me that Toyota designed the Tundra and T100 to be as big as and take business away from the Big 3 in the farmer/construction worker/everyday-trailer-towing demographic? NO

    To hear you tell it, the engineers sat down, drew up the trucks, and the first one off the assembly line was ACCIDENTLY 1 foot too short and the engine was 1 liter too small. How blind can you be?

    The Tundra doesn't compete with the bigger trucks yet and it is not meant to. I have said it many times before: No "mistake" or shortsightedness was made on Toyota's part. They knew exactly what kind of truck they wanted to make, who were their target buyers, and they accomplished exactly that. Just like the Titan is targeting people who want to save a couple grand and are willing to put up with a truck that squeaks and rattles and has warning lights popping on less than 100 miles from the dealer's lot.

    These two trucks are truly apples and oranges. Should they be compared? Yes. But not the way you go about it. To say that Toyota let people down when they designed these "full size" trucks is the ignorant statement of the century. If they had let people down, they wouldn't be selling every truck they make without $10k in incentives.
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    i know the toyotas were designed that way for a reason, but im not the one trying to convince myself otherwise. its people pretending that the toyota will be as heavy duty as the rest by increasing the torque by 25 ft-lbs. that make me want to laugh.
  • rhollandrholland Posts: 3
    I'm 57 years old, and have had pickups all my adult life. The Titan Crew Cab I purchased in May is the best pickup I have owned, but ask me in five or six years, after 150,000 miles, and I will be better equipped to tell how good or bad the truck is.
  • I dont remember saying anywhere that the tundra was meant for "heavy duty". If i wanted a truck like that, I would spring for the powerstroke diesel. I want a truck for different resons than you, thats cool, if you want the biggest #s on the chart, go for it if thats what makes you happy. Im not trying to convince you that the tundra is better, if you look back to my first post, I was simply clearing up some of the rumors for the changes to the 05 engine. Brand loyality? Please, I drive a ford right now, the fact that I want to step into a toyota is irrevelant to loyality, especially considering that every1 else in my family doenst even own one. If you want to want to keep on bashing the Tundra for not being as "heavy duty" as the rest, please be my guest, like stated, it wasnt designed for that. Maybe you should save your heavy duty arguement for 2006 when they will be putting out a true fullsize with a "TOP" engine that you can have if your heart so desires. What truck to you have/are you looking to purchase anyways?
  • jcmdiejcmdie Posts: 595
    I am not a Tundra fan by any means. But I'm not a Tundra basher either. I couldn't agree with you more. The Tundra was created with a different market in mind. They have hit that market. If it was considered a success by Toyota or not only depends on what Toyota's expectations were.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    point taken, all of you.

    This quote is what my previous post was aimed at:
    "the problem is this, and i understand the loyalty to toyota, but they have dropped the ball on full size trucks since they tried 10 years ago with the t100. they just dont get the fact that american truck buyers WANT the best #'s."

    They are NOT confused or wrong about how they perceive anything. Again, they sell exactly what and to whom they plan. Exactly how did they "drop the ball?" To my knowledge they never had "the ball" and I don't understand what you are referring to as a plan of theirs to "pick it up." Explain please.

    Toyota has yet to make a bid in this "big truck" race -- you WILL know it when they do, trust me. wink wink. hehe
  • mikeomikeo Posts: 5
    I was quite happy with my '02 LE 4x4 Tundi until 15k miles, when the rebound went out of those vaunted TRD shocks and it began wallowing around turns and pogoing off bumps. That enchantment further faded at 40k when the transmission stopped working altogether. The final bit was when the CD locked up at 52k and I found there was no replacement done at the dealer, but that I'd have to live with a hole in the dash until returned by the source. Since the replacement shocks were starting to go again, I wanted to trade for a Titan now and not wait so adios toyota.

    So far so good with Titan LE 4x4 - much nicer and more usable power for towing and not towing, better interior storage, and 4x4 much better at rock crawling due to better clearance and approach/departure angles. Am sure there'll be glitches down the road, but will buy whatever's hot in a couple of years anyway. Quite a first effort at a full-size.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    mikeo said in another discussion -- "my LE 4x4 with big tow and ranchos rides just as comfy and tight as the 02 Tundra I traded for it ..."

    The TRD shocks must not have been that bad. Nice try.

    How much rock crawling do you do with a full size truck anyway? This I gotta see.
  • mikeomikeo Posts: 5
    my comparison was to the TRD shocks before the rebound went south on all four at only 15k (vs the usual 30+) - as I'm only at 8k, jury's still out on ranchos, but the slightly greater stiffness gives me hope they'll fare better.

    lol! well, if you mean the extreme stuff we see on TV or magz you'll never see that - I meant up and down rock-filled washes in the santa barbara mountains that you use to keep from eroding pasture or crunching through chapparal (and finding hidden bluffs) .. clearance and steering precision are also noticeably better. (but gas mileage is noticeably worse)
     It's JMO, but from my experience, think the Tundra is the better choice for the urban/suburban trucker who wants better mileage, and doesn't need to tow more than about 3000lbs gross. Once they get the bigger engine in it, I'll be very interested to see if they get a beefier tranny in it, as it was the weakest link in my use.
  • mcscjtmcscjt Posts: 17
    I just wanted to chime in and tell you that so far my new Titan KC LE 4x4 has none of the problems discussed on edmunds or on titantalk forums.

    I have no squeaks or rattles anywhere. The RF radio is great. I have no problems with reception or sound quality. I travel back and forth on the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel (all 17 miles of it) each week and have never lost reception. It doesn't even get fuzzy at the deepest part of the tunnel.

    The bedliner is nice and does not chip off as some claim. The paint job is top notch and Nissan even gave me the protection package at no extra charge.

    So far I am getting 13.9 miles/gallon with mixed driving. Not bad for the first 1000 miles.

    I love the exhaust...I especially crank it when I pass a Tundra or F150 :)
  • kg11kg11 Posts: 530
    "I love the exhaust...I especially crank it when I pass a Tundra or F150 :)"

    Wow...You must really be proud. I'll bet all those Tundra and F150 owners are kicking themselves for not being as smart as YOU !
  • ...actually made an offer, before the wife knocked some sense into me. Here are my impressions (again).

    I drove the King Cab LE with big tow and offroad. First the bad:

    There were about 4-5 half-dollar-size air bubbles under the spray-on bedliner.

    A few rattles from the passenger seat area, and somewhere around the rear glass. Nothing big, but only 52 miles on the odometer.

    That's about all the bad I can remember.

    Now the good:

    The Titan LE is such a luxury express I was never aware I was driving a truck. It is so car-like it's beyond belief. It was shoe-horned into a parking space at the dealer lot so tightly, I had to be extra careful getting it out. The navigation screen was beeping, and I think this was the parking collision avoidance sensors. The dual mirrors were outstanding for seeing I was mere inches from scraping.

    Once out on the road, there was pep, seamless imperceptible shifting of the 5 speed tranny, exhaust character was just right. Air conditioner makes hissing sounds, but seemed normal and non-obtrusive. The navigation screen works just about like the one on the LS400 Lexus but without the whirring sound from a cooling fan, and also without the touch screen feature. As daylight turned to dusk, I was hoping for a way to dim the brightness of the navigation screen, or switch it to a night-time mode. I assume it has one, but I had no time to look for it. Radio system seemed okay. I don't know if it was the greatest I've heard, but I didn't notice it switching to mono, or any difficulty tuning in hard to get AM stations. I don't know where the sub woofer is located, but it sends a tingle up my spine like it's located underneath the driver seat. I didn't blast it, it was plenty strong, and more felt than heard, not boomy. The seat moved back when I opened the door, and up when I closed it. I don't know if that feature is part of the memory feature, seemed like it might be. I had to move it toward the back. There is lots of leg room when moved all the way back, long reach to the wheel, just like I like.

    The steering is perfectly weighted, not particularly fast, but great feel, and actually my favorite feature.

    The acceleration is seamless and peppy around town. Trouncing on it at 80 mph left me incredulous. Where is the acceleration? Seemed totally lacking steam compared to my turbo-charged Duramax diesel, which pins you to the seat at that speed.

    The Titan brakes have super-perfect feel. I have a sense though, that due to the ultra-precise nature of the rack and pinion steering, it may develop some shakes during hard braking from highway speeds. But the truck I drove sure didn't.

    I just couldn't get over how car like it was. I just couldn't fathom there was a pickup bed behind me, or that you could carry much in it. I'm sure it's happier if you don't.

    The rear windows are almost tinted too darkly for me. At night, looking over my shoulder made spotting a car in the blind spot difficult, although perhaps with the great mirrors, you could adjust them to make this unnecssary. Old habits are hard to break.

    I've driven the Tundra too. I just can't remotely fathom the appeal, it is so dated and bland. I HATE the interior of the Tundra, from the dashboard to the seats. The Titan interior in the LE is beautiful, although the plastic is overdone and cheap.

    The 2005 Tundra is out though, sporting 282hp and 5spd automatic tranny, and new best in class fuel economy of 16 city 23 hwy for the 4x4 models. The economy blows Titan away, but I'd rather pay for the gas. Tundra is STILL plagued by the same shaky front end shimmys, brake problems and out of date drums in rear.

    Neither is very truck like. A Silverado HD seems car like only when you compare it to Ford Super Duty or Dodge Ram. 3/4 tons are the real deal for hauling the freight. The Titan worries me that it might be a Ford Sport track, i.e. a sport utility with a full size bed. I could adjust, but the wife said no...
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    why did the wife say no?
  • She took an attitude when I entered the deal making mode and started sending faxes and taking phone calls two at once. "It's all about YOU!"...and "You're gonna do what you're gonna do!"...yada yada.

    She didn't say no about Titan specifically, but she'd make me miserable about anything to get her point. In another sense, she already has...

    I like to trade every 3 years because I don't have to come up with so much money. She sees it that I'm just always buying new cars.

    The dealers are amazing how they come up with ever more innovative ways to re-package the same offer differently... ;)
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    if you want the titan, have her do the negotiating. try the:

    "honey, i just want a titan. you pick the equipment and color, and do the deal..."

    it worked for my last titan buyer. ;-)
  • Titan LE King Cab Galaxy Black
    Big Tow
    Offroad package
    Navigation
    Side Air Bags
    Floor Mats
    Bed Extender
    MSRP: $37,240

    Trade:
    2001 Silverado 2500HD LS 4x4 Reg Cab Duramax Diesel ZF-6spd
    LS Trim
    alloy wheels
    air/pw/door locks/keyless entry/cruise/ etc.
    NADA Trade-In $20,300

    My truck + $12,788
  • The truck above had some dealer added stuff...
    - 3M invisible bra
    - security package (don't know, doesn't Titan have one already?)

    Another deal accepted, different dealer was same equipment, except less bed extender

    my truck + $12,450

    another deal accepted, different dealer same equipment, except including bed extender and bed divider...

    Basically, the first dealer blew it because I was on the floor, made the offer, said they couldn't offer NADA book because it was a regular cab. I had everything to do the deal, clear title with me, proof of insurance, and an E-Loan Power Check. We haggled, it got late, they offered to put my truck on consignment sale, the only stipulation that if they sold it for more than I asked in trade, they keep the difference. They said they could sell it in a week. They wanted to go home, I wanted to get it done. They let me walk.

    I thought about what they said. If they could sell it in a week, what's the problem taking it in trade?

    Saturday morning, I faxed them an offer sheet early, thanking them for the previous offer to consign my Silverado, but explaining that I had improved my offer (I had, by $800), and that I was going to shop around, and that I expected I'd be successful in closing a deal that day, but that it wasn't fair to not give them the same shot at the new offer, so if you want the new offer, contact me quickly. They did, within about an hour, saying that NOW suddenly the wholesalers were suddenly interested, and that they had a bid $2,000 higher from one, and still working to get a couple other bids, be patient. They called back after about another hour, saying,..."we're REALLY CLOSE." (LMAO)

    He haggled me some more, pushed pretty hard, but not quite meeting the terms of my faxed offer either. Minutes later, I heard from both of the other two dealers I had faxed offers to, both accepting at face value.

    The one I was going to accept was a dealer 60 miles away, and I was getting ready to jump in the Silverado and go do the deal when wife asked me for third time if (I said no twice before) I wanted to go to this wedding party for people I didn't know. She had a bad attitude already from my dealings, and when (out of guilt) I said I would go, she went postal, saying I wasn't ready and only had 15 minutes. I said go on ahead, I'll meet you there, take the Cadillac, then she couldn't find her keys, (now she's really hot), finally did, flings them across the floor, and takes off.

    I said screw it, I'm not getting the truck, and I'm not going to the party!

    The moral of this, thE first dealer had so many opportunities, and blew it because of not understanding the dynamics of this axiom..."TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE."
  • mcscjtmcscjt Posts: 17
    "The Titan worries me that it might be a Ford Sport track"

    You can't compare the Titan to the Sport Trac. Read edmunds review of the Sport Trac and you will realize that it should not be considered in the 1/2 ton class at all. Besides it bed is under 4 feet isn't it.

    Yes, the Tundra might get better milage but is 14/18 really than much worse than 16/23. You've already stated that there is nothing appealing about the interior or the exterior look.

    For me the Titan was not only about the numbers but about the looks. The chrome face of the Titan just screams "look at me!!!" The other day, I was on the highway and I passed 5 Tacomas in a row (literally). Sometimes, standing out from the crowd is a very good thing.
  • I don't think I can make the move to Titan at this time. Basically, while it will outrun my Silverado 0-60 mph, the Duramax turbo diesel will easily outrun the Titan from 60-100mph.

    While that's not making a positive statement about my driving style, it does reflect the reality for me in Colorado, where I actually do lots of high altitude 2 lane mountain driving hauling motorcycles, and can actually use strong passing power to get around a motorhome or a line of cars, and spirited stop and go city driving where the Titan excels is something I'm more patient about.

    And it's not that the Titan is weak on passing power, any more so than any normally aspirated vehicle that loses 15-40% power depending on the altitude. It's just the matter of fact that turbocharged boost is strongly suited for high altitude mountain driving. The higher you go, or the faster you go, the greater the advantage.

    Reading 50 pages of posts at Titantalk.com makes it evident Nissan will benefit from another year to get the initial quality up.

    I love the utili-track system and spray in bedliner, but now I've seen several that have the bubbling-up problem. The paint quality is also mediocre.

    I love the luxurious LE interior and seats, but I'm neutral about the exterior style. I TOTALLY love the way it drives around town, the steering, braking, shifting, exhaust character.
  • That's the most glowing review so far, and they've all been good. Titan has won every shootout, but it's only being compared to 1/2 ton trucks in it's class.

    As a consumer weighing a purchase decision, I have to look at it a little differently. I'm not writing magazine reviews, I can stray outside the box, and my judgment criteria is how well it merits against my likely trade-in, for filling the role I have for it. In the case of Titan, it serves my 'wants' just a little bit better than in serves my needs.
  • ...and those are my final comments, unless someone has a question. Feel free to email me at 12345678@vsdrives (substitute "motronix" for 12345678...anti-automated-spam control.)

    I'll still be reading and following with interest, but I'm not here to thread-hijack or troll.
  • toycashtoycash Posts: 139
    Here's one Toyota advantage:

    Ghosn: Mea culpa on Nissan quality
    Published 09/13/2004 in Automotive News
    Inexperienced workers are the cause of poor quality at Nissan Motor Co.'s Canton, Miss., plant, says CEO Carlos Ghosn. "The root cause was a lack of experience," Ghosn said last week, referring to Nissan's dismal scores in the J.D. Power and Associates 2004 Initial Quality Study.
  • OK, Where's the supervisor that supposed to be montitoring the vehicles that come off the assembly line? It's hard to believe that these problems can keep popping up without somebody in management checking it out. Are they having problems with the Armada? The Canton plant may be inexperienced with their employees. They are supposed to have some experienced leadership. That is supposed to help the employees improve upon their mistakes. I take the quality control conversation to the management. They should stop passing the buck. I do love the low depreciation the Tundra has over the Titan. Toyota has outstanding reputation for dependability and reliability. Those are the vehicles my wife will purchase outside of Lexus which is the same thing.
  • Tundra is dated and boring. Wait for the '06.
  • Remember that movie Gung Ho where Michael Keaton played a union guy in a Japanese car plant? Sounds just like Canton.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    Can't lay the blame solely on new plants. Notice that the Nissan Sentra has taken a big hit in reliability and quality. The Smyrna plant is not brand new.
This discussion has been closed.