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Toyota Tundra vs. Nissan Titan

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  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    as long as you dont close the thread again!

    ;-)
  • The previous messages make my point in #22. Thanks. I own a 1988 toyota p'up, 1990 4 Runner, 2001 Sequoia , 2003 Avalon, great vehicles. I'm just an interested observer in the "second coming" of Nissan.
  • triattriat Posts: 121
    My choices came down to the Tundra Dc or the Titan CC. I thought F150 too much a gamble Ford 1st year model, for me. C1500 nice drivetrain, but I didn't like questionable quality or sopha style foam seats with no support. Ram 1500 nice styling but engineering suspect, come on, two wheel ABS?

    My above discriptions are simplified for brevity.

    Sitting in a Tundra DC at an Autoshow, I realized several ergonomic problems for me similar for my Access Cab. 1.) The floor to roof height distance still too low. It's still awkward with my dimensions to find a comfortable position for longer periods. It seems best designed for 5'6"-5'10",or if taller have shorter legs. 2.) Toyota claims DC is wider, but I think everything(front seats,dash,center console) still all a tight fit. I think the 1 1/2" was added between the door & seat of each side, not in the middle... 3.) In light of #1, no adjustable pedals or telescope steering to accomodate wider range of drivers? Nor footrest or place to put driver's left foot 4.) Same engine as Access Cab? I disagree with Bowke, my V-8 Access Cab way powerful, however with additional 300-400lbs base weight of DC? 5.)My turning radius is similar to full sized trucks! For DC add another foot or so? 6.) DC's back seat comfortable enough, however folds inefficiently using too much space. 7.)High bed. This meant rear visibility over high tailgate poor for backing up. I also could barely touch the bed floor reaching over bedside panels. 8.)My final personal nitpick-this thing is one foot too long. Kind of like the Excursion to the Suburban. Just a foot too long for most.

    The DC does have the most solid shutting doors of any trucks-much like the older Mercedes cars.

    In addition to all my praises of the Titan in my mid November test drive; the Titan has far more innovations, and the drivetrain is silk smooth with the engine & transmission nicely matched.

    I think the DC was a natural Toyota evolution, but Toyota was too conservative. Some of my gripes would have been easy to update. I think this will affect their numbers.

    '05-'06 is way off for Toyota. Especially if the 3/4 ton proves to be an addition, rather than a replacement of the Tundra DC.
  • triattriat Posts: 121
    A friend of mine & I were going to hook up with a couple of his buddies for mountainbiking. My friend mentioned to them we would swing by with my truck. He apparently failed to mention to these buddies my truck is a Tundra Access Cab.

    You should have seen the look on their faces. It turns out "those buddies" were both also over 6'.

    Needless to say, they followed us in their car.

    I can't wait till the Titan gets in, sigh.
  • triattriat Posts: 121
    seriously consider the 3/4ton market? The Tundra's success is partly due to a niche market not needing full size trucks. Secondly a 3/4 ton means a new frame. So unless they discontinue the Tundra older "short" frame series in favor of the Tundra DC lengthened frame, they would be building 3 body sizes & 3 frames. You would have to sell a lot of each just to cover the manufacturing costs!

    btw, I think GM is most efficent. Same body/interior parts on all the trucks C1500-C3500(Except CCab),and they just use 2 frames!!

    Someone who knows 3/4 ton-sales figures/market help me out here...Is the 3/4 ton market so large, knowing Toyota has to consolidate their offerings, that Toyota could turn a profit in 3/4 market??
  • oldharryoldharry Posts: 413
    The HD pickup market is HUGE. Ford sells more Super Duty trucks than F-150's.

    Harry
  • Yesterday I drove the Titan and F150 crewcab, then the Tundra doublecab. I loved the acceleration of the Titan, and the room, and the seat comfort. I did not like the seatcovers, or the cheap looking plastic materials. It is no doubt a fantastic truck, but I just wonder why Nissan doesn't spend a little more and make the interior first class too. I currently drive an 01 F150 supercab, and will be leasing something else in the next few months. The F150 was nice, with a better quality interior. I had just about ruled out the Tundra, but after I drove it, I loved it.
    I have concerns about the build quality of both the Ford and the Nissan, especially since they are new products, which I don't have about Toyota. I found the Tundra to have very nice pickup, with a beautiful interior, and it drove just like a car. I was really surprised, and instead of being last on my list, it is now first. Just my thoughts.

    By the way, I am in San Antonio, TX, and the Titan salesman said he had 6 or 8 (which I saw, and drove 2 over 2 days), with 12 more due any day. Supply doesn't seem to be a problem here.
  • I forgot to mention that the versions I drove were the Titan SE,the Ford XLT (4.6), and the Tundra SR5.
  • excellent build quality, but I find it strange Toyota didn't up the horsepower/torque to match it's bigger weight/dimensions! Also, why are they only offering this new Tundra in an expensive double-cab model and no access cab? I hope that if Toyota does upgrade the Tundra again for 2005/06, that they'll bring back the access cab version along with the HP/Torque immprovements. Nissan builds quality products too, and so far, it seems the Titan has the edge as far as power,standard equipment, and value for the dollar! Just my opinion.
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    the point of the titan is to bring an import truck with full capabilities to the market. if you want a truck to haul a couple bags of mulch twice a year, then the toy might work...but when you talk about real truck functionality, its a far cry from the rest.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,697
    Bowke, the Tundra is right in the ball game when it comes to payloads, and the double cab even has a longer bed than the Titan crew cab. The real-world differences between the two vehicles (and the domestics!) are not nearly as great as you suggest.

    So the Titan is bigger (not necessarily an advantage in my book), it tows more (although the Tundra will tow anything I might tow), and it has a more powerful engine and 5-speed automatic (that I will grant you).

    http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2004/tundra/specs_dcab.html

    Your not so subtle innuendos and put downs of the Tundra just don't hold water under close examination. People buying this vehicle know what they're getting, and I have yet to hear from a Tundra owner who's not happy with their truck.

    Bob
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    I have to agree with you...the DC Tundra has every right to be compared in the same league as the other full sized pickups.

    In a direct comparison with all the others, the Tundra DC will match out well in size (dimensions) and handling and other things like that. It will probably be tops in quality, also. There are only really two or three areas where it WILL fall short, performance, seating, and capacities.

    Although some will be satisfied with it, as rsholland is, others won't find the engine to have enough power. All other full size trucks offer seating for 6 in thier CCs - the Tundra doesn't, and the GCWR (and towing capacity)are much too low for many people pulling boats and campers and such.

    BUT, these are only shortcomings in some peoples minds, and each of the other Full sized trucks has their own list.

    The dimensions of the Tundra DC SAY it has earned the right to be called a fullsized! They have just limited the people who will buy it because of those main three areas.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,697
    And despite my above post, I prefer the Titan over the Tundra, but capability or lack-there-of has nothing to do with it.

    I just think the Tundra gets criticized way too often because it doesn't match the dimensions of the other full-size trucks. The 4.7 engine is a fine engine but I do wish it were hooked up to the 5-spead automatic found in the Land Cruiser and V8 4-Runner. Those wishing for a larger Tundra engine will have their wish fulfilled in about a year, in the meantime the 4.7 is fine, IMO.

    I also wish it had the Land Cruiser/4-Runner's full-time 4WD available, at least as an option. I also wish the Titan had the auto full-time 4WD found on the Armada. Those who think full-time 4WD has no place on a pickup are wrong IMO. Dodge seems to agree, as the '04 Ram 1500 is now available with full-time 4WD. The Chevy and GMC 1500/2500 (not 2500HD) models have had on-demand full-time 4WD (AutoTrac -- which is similar in function to the Armada's auto 4WD) for several years now.

    Question: Do the Titan and Tundra V8s use a timing chain or timing belt?

    Bob
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    The specs on the Titan list under valve train "silent chain" so I assume they use a chain.

    As to the 4wd, I was told by my Nissan Sales Rep that the 4wd in the Titan is the same as the Armada. When you turn the switch to 4wd you can run it on dry or wet pavement (like Auto AWD). Now, he can be wrong and I don't have a Titan owners manual to check, so don't quote me or take it as Gospel.

    As to the Tundra - If I was buying a truck in 4 months or a year or so, it would be one of my top two choices - along with the Titan. The only problem now is it still isn't available in Canada, so I can't wait that long as I am walking right now. The only other problem I would have is I tow a 5000lb travel trailer and I would be limited by the GCWR! That would be a deal breaker as I wouldn't want to tow unsafely.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,697
    The Armada has an extra 4WD mode; I think it's called Auto-4WD, or something like that. Having said that, maybe in Canada it's different?

    Bob
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    I agree with you 100% I looked at the picture in the Armada's owners manual and the switch is different than the Titan. The Titan doesn't have the Auto position because I remember looking at it. The salesman is totally wrong and I will have to let him know as he is a friend of mine. And he might cause problems on a Titan if somebody listens to him.

    Too bad they don't have it - that is a big negative!
  • triattriat Posts: 121
    in every exterior dimension. It can carry more mulch than any other half ton.

    So bowke, other than the fact it's V8 isn't 5+ liters(limited towing); why do you think the Tundra DC doesn't have "real truck functionality", and explain how you think it's a far cry from the rest?

    I find the Tundra DC is quite capable. It also has the most vault-like structure, proven reliability, the best quality fit/finish, and
    proven resale value.
  • Wheel Base ;). Also according to Autovantage these are the payload and towing ranges for the F150 and the Tundra

    Towing / Payload Capacity Ford says F-150 has the highest towing a payload ratings of any 1-ton full-size truck. That is true, but the numbers are only slightly better than Dodge, Chevy, and the new Nissan Titan. Maximum payload is 3000 lb when equipped with the payload package, 2000 lb without the payload package. Towing capacities range from 6000 lb to 9500 lb depending on model.

    Towing / Payload Capacity Tundra payload capacities range from 1110 lb on the 4WD SR5 Stepside V8 to 1800 lb on the 2WD SR5 Access Cab V8. Six-cylinder Tundras are rated to tow from 4800-5000 lb; V8s are rated for 6900-7200 lb.

    Also of note in their reviews the Double cab gets a 4 for acceleration while the Super Crew gets a 6.

    Toyota claims about 8 sec 0-60 mph for a 2WD V8 regular-cab Tundra. Test 4WD Access Cab clocked a respectable 8.8 sec--without a load. We haven't yet tested V6 models, but they're just 10 percent of Tundra sales. Double Cabs are at least 250 lb heavier than comparable Access Cabs, and thus feel sluggish up steep hills and sometimes even in normal traffic.

    Did I read that right? Sluggish in normal traffic?

    Then again F150 gets this:

    Base V8 has modest acceleration, but works well enough for light-duty hauling and commuting. The 5.4 has stronger acceleration and is well-suited to heavy work, but still trails Dodge Hemi V8 for overall power and GM 5.3 V8 in refinement. With base V8, automatic transmission tends to rush upshfts, delay downshifts, frustrating passing response and driving in hilly terrain.

    Cant shift to the right gear? LOL

    The moral if you get an F150 dont get the 4.6L its as underpowered in the F150 as it is in the Expedition. And the Tundra DC is still underpowered with its added weight until it gets an upgraded engine (coming soon to a Tundra near you)

    But wait isnt this the Titan Vs Tundra board how'd that F150 get in here?
  • triattriat Posts: 121
    It's easy to mix numbers. I think right now the Tundra DC is similar performance/capability to F150 or C1500 with their small V8's.

    I also like the tests where they compare brakes. When I carried a full pallet of grass for a coworker in my Tundra, 0-60mph was no issue for the 4.7, power was plentiful. But stopping all that mass in traffic was something I was careful about!
  • rosey4rosey4 Posts: 42
    I finally test drive the Nissan Titan over the weekend, and came away impressed. The Titan has much more to offer than the Tundra Double Cab does. Much more power of course, but it was roomier on the inside, much more than I anticipated. It has a rear sonar device that lets you know how close to something when backing up. The one I drove was fully loaded, it was an LE with Navagation and a DVD. The Titan is something to really consider. It is a monster truck, an impressive one.

    Though I test drove the Tundra Double Cab briefly I knew what to expect. The Tundra is a much more smoother ride than the Titan. I really want the Tundra, but what happens if I eventually need more power? Does anyone know when Toyota plans to build a larger engine? I was told last year it would be soon. Could it be mid-year 2004? Or, will it be next fall? Will it be a 5.5 liter engine?
  • triattriat Posts: 121
    I don't think Toyota has started pouring for the foundation in San Antonio yet.
  • Soooo... where did all the lurkers who thought that the Nissan(Renault)Titan was the greatest thing since sliced bread go ?? Especially since Detroit, things are mighty quiet. Maybe they went back to the Nissan boards to" heal up "
  • keaneckeanec Posts: 349
    Driving their Titans.
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    also waiting for a tundra poster to post something worth responding to...so far, the titan is better in every way that has been discussed.
  • triattriat Posts: 121
    I'm buying the Titan for a lot of reasons. But I have to say I think the Tundra DC does ride a little better. Oh ya, and percieved proven reliability. I can't think of anything else though. Just waiting on my Titan
  • is a lot easier on the tundra. Nissan placed the titan starter under the intake manifold. Let's see, the BIGGEST truck in class, yet they couldn't find a more service-friendly place for the starter.

    I keep thinking about the new Altima my wife and I test drove last summer. It looked sweet and really had some guts, but it sounded like the plastic trim around the radio and arm rest was going to fall off 'cause it was squeeking creaking so much.......(any I'm a Mustang and VW Passat owner, both of which are notorious for squeeks and creaks).
  • bowke28bowke28 Posts: 2,185
    if you still do all your own repairs, you are in the minority. the goal isnt to make it easy for you to do...its to make it so difficult that you pay the dealer to do it.
  • The titan offers a bigger engine, more torque, more horsepower, more towing capacity, some of the best interior space in its class, a welded ladder fully boxed frame, utility bed for more versatility, optional dvd navigation and entertainment system.

    The Tundra Offers a c-channel frame at the back with rivets which will lead to more body roll and a noisy ride in the future. The engine has almost the same horsepower of a 3.5 altima, The tundra only has a colum shifter and some of the ugliest wood grain ever seen in a truck

    PS Check out the article in four wheeler magazine about the pick up truck of the year
  • triattriat Posts: 121
    too funny bowke !! I've never heard it put like that! Maybe some truth too!
  • I always make it a point to buy from manufacturers that go out of their way to "bend the customer over" when it comes to service and maintenance down the road.

    I've compared the Tundra and Titan very carefully and really wish the Tundra had better front seats, about 60 more horse power, and side air bags.

    I wish the Titan didn't have the typical questionable Nissan build quality with cheap interior materials, a really short bed with the crew cab, and such stupid option packages like having to order the off road package to get limited slip. Don't forget about the 5 hours of labor it'll take to replace the starter ;~)

    Tthe Titan really reminds me of my current loaded '02 Quad Cab Dakota (which I really lilke). It's powerful, looks cool and seems awesome....until all the little things the factory screwed up start showing up. (and driving me nuts)

    I want my next truck to be dependable and reliable first and foremost. I don't need the fastest truck as my 'stang runs 12's. I think Toyota designed and builds the Tundra to last a long time, I just don't get that same feeling with the Titan (hopefully I'm wrong).

    jwilli420, it's not really apples to apples, but the newest Four Wheeler Magazine picks the Lexus GX470 as four wheeler of the year. The Armada finished 4th and the Hemi Durango 5th. I found it interesting as the Lexus has the same little (Under Powered ?)4.7 as the Tundra (but with a 5 spd trans.). It was 5th fastest in the quarter mile out of seven and still won 4X4 of the year.

    .
This discussion has been closed.