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Toyota Highlander Hybrid

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Comments

  • gazguzlergazguzler Member Posts: 137
    Yeah, I won that rally . . . only because no one else showed up :-)

    But some of us will be coming up on our first year. that should be cause for a rally somewhere.
  • mmreidmmreid Member Posts: 88
    As gas prices go up, I'm finding that more and more total strangers are asking me about my HH. The big question from guys is "does it have any power?" and always asking about the mpg. I hear a lot of "my next car is going to be a hybrid".
    Anyone else noticing this trend? I also see people pointing from the car behind me (at stop lights) but not sure if it is my bumper stickers, custom license plate or the hybrid logo!

    mmreid :)
  • kandrsmommykandrsmommy Member Posts: 1
    I am thinking of a Highlander and was wondering current owners pros and cons about the SUV. I am a little concerned about access to the 3rd row.....does anyone use it regularly? Do the kids have trouble getting in and out? My kids are now 10 and 7, but we plan to keep it until they are teenagers. Any other information would be nice too.
    Thanks
  • boothe1boothe1 Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for your input. I decided my road was definitely a 3 and on its way in the next twelve months to being a 2 and then a 1. So, I purchased mine today. Look forward to the gas savings after my thirsty 98 Suburban. Salesman told me to drive it like an old lady, slow and gunning the gas only when absolutely necessary, and my gas mileage should be good!!!
  • cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    Glad to be of help.

    Please do not set your expectation too high at first, it takes time for the car to break in and time to learn to drive it conservatively. Many owners here have lots of experience, and posts from the past few months contain quite a bit of good tricks too.

    Enjoy!
  • mmreidmmreid Member Posts: 88
    My husband just sent me an e-mail with the newly released list of hybrid tax credits for 2006 from the IRS (he's a tax lawyer for those new to this forum):

    2005 and 2006 Prius: $3,150
    2006 Highlander 4WD/2WD: $2,600
    2006 Lexus RX400h 2WD: $2,200
    2006 Lexus RX400h 4WD: $2,200
    2006 Ford Escapefront WD: $2,600
    2006 Ford Escape 4WD: $1,950
    2006 Mercury Mariner hybird 4WD: $1,950

    mmreid
  • otis1otis1 Member Posts: 142
    So, I'm guessing on next year's tax forms, there will be a box or something you check off that says, "I bought a hybrid car" or something to that effect. then you fill in the appropriate $$$ credit which corresponds to that car. but is this going to be an "honor" system type of deal? In other words, what's to stop everyone and their brother from filling in that line? an audit?
  • mmreidmmreid Member Posts: 88
    Hmmm, that's a good question about proving you bought a hybrid. We bought my HH in June of 2005 and my husband showed me how the accountant did it for last year. You write the words "clean fuel" in on line 36 (in the section on adjusted gross income)and across from that we wrote in $2,000. I don't know if he attached a copy of the sales receipt for buying the car but then, if you think about it, we don't attach any other receipts - we own rental property, I'm self employed etc. and we have tons of receipts but we only need to produce them if we are audited. I mean, how does the IRS know if we put a new stove in a rental house or not? I assume it's fear of an audit that keeps us all pretty honest! We went through a big thing with the IRS some years ago and while we "won", it took over a year and if my husband had not been a tax attorney, I think we would have had to pay someone many thousands of dollars to prove to the IRS that we didn't owe them $90,000 plus interest and penalties!

    mmreid
  • mmreidmmreid Member Posts: 88
    Finally got e-mail back from spouse who says taxes are always on the honor system, so if audited, you'd better have that receipt for the hybrid you are claiming!

    mmreid
  • discussion1discussion1 Member Posts: 103
    Yeah, we have noticed a spike of interest. Strangers who park next to us would ask, almost everyone who knows about our HH has asked. One man who drives a Prius also asked because he is getting married and plan to have children, speak of planning ahead.

    There is a common thread in all our interactions. People always talk about how they want to drive "normally" and get good mileage.

    As others have posted here, "normal" is poorly defined because what is normal to an aggressive driver is abnormal to a conservative driver.

    Another problem is people expect to get "good" mileage. What is "good" is also undefined. I am happy with 24 knowing I can get 26-28 with some work, another defines good as EPA rated mileage from day 1 with no change to driving style. The Prius driver was the only one who understood this.

    There is a lot of perception problems about what the HH really is so people have all different kinds of expectations.

    DO people who talk to you have such expectations?
  • mmreidmmreid Member Posts: 88
    DO people who talk to you have such expectations?

    I find that guys typically ask about mpg and power (they assume that 'cause it's a hybrid, it is a wuss) and women always seem to ask if you have to plug it in at night! I do get asked about the batteries and how long they are expected to last and I tell them about the incredible warranty. I also hear "my next car is going to be a hybrid" as well as "I wish I could afford it". I'm always surprised at how few people understand how the vehicle or works or think that you, the driver, is having to manually switch it back and forth from electric to ICE. Most folks actually don't know a heck of a lot about hybrids and some of what they think they know is basically wrong. Sometimes I think Toyota should have paid me for buying the vehicle as I seem to be a walking advertisement for it!

    mmreid
  • nsxwesnsxwes Member Posts: 84
    I was surprised to read that my local Toyota dealer advertised over $5K discount (from MSRP) on Highlander Hybrids. I didn't check to see if this was on all of them of just on the loaded 4WDi Limited versions with Nav. A $5K discount would get the price down close to invoice. Much different than when I paid MSRP in June 2005. Add the tax credit to that and the price is certainly getting pretty good.
  • cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    Sometimes I think Toyota should have paid me for buying the vehicle as I seem to be a walking advertisement for it!

    You are absolutely right!!!

    I will be happy if Toyota just offers an upgrade path. Just like software, computers and various other machinery, Toyota should offer upgrade kits that:
    1. support replacement of batteries with newer versions when they are available.
    2. support Plug-in to increase electric-only range.
    3. add an "ECO" button system so owners can choose "low power" and longer electric run versus "normal power".

    I will gladly pay reasonable money for all these insead of having to buy a whole new car.
  • otis1otis1 Member Posts: 142
    I'm always surprised at how few people understand how the vehicle or works

    I'm actually surprised at how little some DRIVERS know about their car. I've only spoken to 2 drivers, but both knew very little about their HH's. "oh it's just great on gas." -what do you get? "30's or 40's- something like that.." the other owner said, "I'm taking it to california next month and I'm worried because it may not have enough power to climb some of the hills..." "I was surprised that it didn't come with the little graphics screen like my husband's prius."

    so do people not research cars, or even test drive them anymore?
  • kodiakrockskodiakrocks Member Posts: 7
    I am in the midst of trying to choose between a Subaru and the HH. If I had all the money in the world, I'd get the hybrid, but sadly $$ is an issue. From my research there's no question that the HH is going to be more expensive, not just from the initial purchase (over 10K difference) but maintenance too. If I could justify this with real mpg differences I would buy into it...mind you I know that the argument is that no hybrid offers enough savings in gas to mitigate the purchase price differential.

    SO, my question is this, what is REAL mpg on the HH 4WD? Of course that depends on how you drive it and how much is city vs highway. So, what if you drive 26 miles (roundtrip) to work with 50% highway and 50% city streets. Throw in a couple of 175 mile trips a month (mostly highway) - what kind of mpg can be expected? Worse than the Subie,same as the Subie or better??

    One last question, driving up a steep paved road with plenty of curves, i.e. 35 miles per hour, what is running, the electric or the gas engine? I've been warned off getting the HH for any kind of off-roading with the HH because the electric motor may burn out (that runs the rear wheels)...is this true for eroded fire roads? Does anyone have any bad experiences with clearance?

    I really need to make a decision soon as my Subie is slowly dying (head gasket issues at 113k - which is one main reason for not going again with a Subie hands down!

    Thanks,
    kodiakrocks
  • cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    As you consider mileage issues, it is best to not think of the HH as a gas-saver. It is best to make sure the car meets your needs rather than let the potential of good mpg drive your decision. The HH is just another mid-size V6 SUV that has V8-like torque at lower speed and is able to get V6-like mileage. If you are able to make it run on electric often, then mileage will shoot up.

    what kind of mpg can be expected? Worse than the Subie,same as the Subie or better??
    In CA, during snowy winter months, we were getting 22-MPG on Winter gas. When it warmed to around 55+'s, we were getting 24-MPG. Temperature is now in the mid-60's, our current tank, after 100 miles is getting 26.8-MPG. We expect mileage to climb back to 28-mpg when Summer gas kicks in and weather warms to 70's. We bought our HH in July of last year and started getting 28-29 MPG beginning late Summer until Winter gas kicked in around the first real cold spell.

    ...uphill... i.e. 35 miles per hour, what is running, the electric or the gas engine?
    On uphill, the gas engine will run, the electric motors will kick in to add power if you need it. Steeper downhill, gas engine shuts off. Shallower downhill, gas engine may continue to run.

    I've been warned off getting the HH for any kind of off-roading with the HH
    Please see our experience in post #2843. Others may have other experiences.

    Clearance
    We avoid taking on anything that is over 6 inches deep or tall on dirt tracks. Our dirt roads have sufficient maneuvering room to avoid deeper ruts (8-inch or more). We line the tires up on high shoulder and the high road center carefully to avoid these ruts. Sometimes, we pile rocks and boulders into the ruts to reduce the depth. Rocks and boulders too need care. Everything around 6-inch or less, well set and won't skip, we drive over them without problems. Everything bigger requires removal or maneuvering around them. Watch for downed tree limbs with smaller side branches. Driving over these could roll the hard smaller side branches up into the undercarriage and stab or snag something. We almost always stop to remove these limbs completely before proceeding.

    Water is so far not a problem. We hit many large puddles on paved and dirt roads that splashed to cover the entire windshield, the car continues to perform fine. We did not do this deliberately, all were accidental.
  • jack5225jack5225 Member Posts: 3
    :confuse:

    Ok... let's get real.

    The HH is nice on gas -- but doesn't live up to it's rated MPG.
    Especially for around town.

    The HH is not a "real" SUV.

    It is definately NOT an off road vehicle and it says so in the manual.
    The manual actually warns against off road usage.

    You will average about 24 mpg and if anyone tells you differently they're bad at math.

    Up hill, curves or otherwise it's -- the gas engine!
    Electric on the level and combo for slight inclines (electric & gas),
    otherwise it switches to gas.

    In fact -- cruise control uses gas for going down hill! Go figure? :mad:

    Never got 30 mpg, ever, even after watching the computer for assistance. Highest mpg achieved is 28.9 mpg, mostly downhill, using no cruise control.

    Have you given thought to the Ford Escape?
  • jack5225jack5225 Member Posts: 3
    Ask for or trade up to better more off-road-like tires.
    Thicker tread, not all weather tires.

    We have a second home on a maintained dirt road (subsurface is a large gravel rock bed). After 19,000 miles we've decided to change the tires. Standard tires are for cross-over type cars, and have also found that they're not particularly well suited to rain slicked roads.

    Get better tires and you will be :)
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Correct on all points. As cdtrap noted above the HH is not a vehicle to buy in order to 'make' money by saving fuel. It's just a very efficient V6 crossover SUV.

    Achieving 26-28 mpg in good weather conditions should be possible. Taking into account 4 months of bad weather in most areas your average of 24 mpg is pretty close ( we get 19 mpg annual average in our ICE 4WD Highlander ). Thus one should save about 20-30% of their annual fuel bill in most cases.
  • cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    Hi Kodiakrocks,

    As "jack" posted, tires is an important concern. Our HH came with Goodyear Integrity and in our opinion they are absolutely *not* usable on anything but paved surface. We lost one to sidewall cut driving on our dirt road. Another poster here reported losing 2 to sidewall cuts.

    Look for a tire that has 2-ply sidewall. We ended up with Goodyear Fortera Silent Armor but any good tire that can take some abuse should do.
  • shilohladyshilohlady Member Posts: 24
    So, Jack, I'm bad at math???

    After 20,000 miles, my lifetime average is 27.1 mpg. I was consistently getting 29.5-30mpg last summer and expect to be back there this summer.

    Yes, I have significant downhill every morning on my way to work (average about 42-43 mpg on the way in) but have to go back up that hill every afternoon (work in Denver area, live at 8,500 ft)
  • kullenbergkullenberg Member Posts: 283
    I bought a HH LTD a couple of weeks ago, and swapped the tires out for Nokian WR's - an all season tire with a winter rating. Had to go with 235/65/17, which is a trifle larger, but seems to have no ill effects, and will be a lot better in the winter, here in the mtns of western NC.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Traveling between 4000 feet and 8500 feet it is highly likely your hybrid ICE is derated in HP by as much as 30-40%, so of course you get stellar gas mileage.

    You would need a turbocharger or supercharger to get the factory HP/torque ratings driving consistently at those altitudes.
  • shilohladyshilohlady Member Posts: 24
    I purchased it at CarMax in Baltimore, on the drive back I started between 24 and 26 MPG until I started gainig elevation when it dropped to about 22. As I said, last summer in/around home I was getting 30 mpg. I took a trip to CA over Christmas, the drive out I averaged 26 MPG and on the trip back, my avergae was 24.7 - That's going over both the Rockies and Sierras both ways but obviously gaining more elevation on the way back. For what it's worth, the 275 miles in/around CA at close to sea level, I averaged 26.6 MPG which I consider decent.

    Unless I'm flooring it, I really don't think that the HP differential makes much difference.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    You're absolutely correct, the HP derating due to the thin air will only have an effect at WOT. But then it wouldn't take many WOT, pull out and pass, circumstances to radically affect your MPG vs someone operating more predominantly at sea level.

    And given the engine derating effect you undoubtedly will have more than the normal reasons to go WOT.
  • cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    There is a lot of "myth" going around. Here are some I heard and had to debunk when answering people's curious questioning. Please share yours, it can be fun...

    1. gas mileage is really bad, huh?
    NO and YES. No if you drive careful and conservative to save gas. Yes if you gun it all over town. Just like any car, even the HUMMER, the driver controls the gas mileage.

    2. ...Toyota lied about the gas mileage, I heard it is so lousy, it can't even get EPA numbers...
    Wrong. Toyota by law must state EPA numbers. All cars on the road, in general and on average, cannot meet EPA numbers, not even the Prius. EPA testing is unrealistic. Then I turn on our HH and show them the on-board MPG number, currently as 27.1 mpg. One guy with a Silverado was really impressed.

    3. ...maintenance cost is high, CR says so....
    Wrong. WHere is the proof? Paid $80 for first 5000 mile maintenance, did my own for the 10,000 mile mark and paid only for parts. Then I show them the receipts and maintenance schedule which is no different than most other cars, like our Hondas, vans, trucks.

    4. ...oh! but the battery is not reliable and needs replacement...
    Wrong. Prius uses the same batteries from Panasonic and that car has been around since 1998. There has not been owner complaints about battery life on-file with the Federal government.

    5. ...yeah but I heard you have to change it and it costs a bundle...
    True and False. False if you think you need to change it every year like normal 12V batteries. Hybrid battery is totally different. Warranty covers the battery for 100000 miles or 8 years. Then I show them the warranty booklet. True in that eventually, may be when the car is at 200,000 miles, you may have to change the batteries. Do we really complain about repairing a car after 200,000 miles of reliable service? Especially if it is only changing batteries for possibly another 200,000 miles? This argument always comes along when the four myths have been debunked by receipts, car MPG and manual.

    6. ...yeah OK but if the mileage is not that great, then I can't get the premium back...
    Irrelevant. Who buys a car and expect to get money back? Do I expect to somehow get some money back after buying my V8 Chevy trucks? After buying a Mercedes or BMW? Why is it suddenly important to get money back?

    7. ...yeah but the cost is the hybrid system and it should save us gas to be worth it...
    Wrong. The cost is not just the hybrid engine system, it also is all the drive-by-wire technology built into the steering, pumps, brakes, engine power management and control, safety systems. The whole VDIM system that only a $60,000 Mercedes comes close to offering.

    8. ...ok, but I don't know, the resale value will not be good....
    Um... how do we know? The car is only 9 months old with some 26000 sold in the US, how do we know? And why will resale value be necessarilly lower? Compared to what cars will it be lower? Do we always consider resale value when buying a car? When did it suddenly become a "gating" factor?

    9. ...ok, I don't know, it is so new....
    This is when I tell them to look at the car like any car. Figure out if it meets their needs. If it does, then decide if the extra technology is worth the extra money. if not, do not buy it.

    10. Hey! Great car, I heard it gets 40-mpg...
    Wrong. At least not my HH. I got 30-mpg once and that required a lot of work. Mostly we get 28-29 in the warmer months and 24-26 in the colder months in CA. Annual average of 26-28 is reasonable.

    11. ...I heard it is a bad-*** fast car that beats all the V8...
    Wrong. The HH is not a race car and there are many V8's, even older V8's, that will out accelerate the HH. Even the little Prius can give the HH a good run when accelerating from a start.

    12. ...Wow, you can run this on electric everywhere at low speed...
    Wrong. On uphill, the gas engine runs. On shallow downhill, the gas engine runs if we need to maintain speed.

    13. ...it is useless offroad...
    No, it depends.... I won't repeat this one here :).

    14. ...it has no power on steep road, the battery will run out and you will have to run on gas only...
    Wrong!!! The on-board system knows when to charge the battery using the gas-engine so the battery never runs out on mountainous terrain. There is no impact on power or torque. Check out HWY 5 in CA north of Red-Bluff all the way into Oregon. Or check out the Grapevine in LA. Those are places we drive through a few times a year. Or check out HWY 152, 17, 280 in the SF Bay area. For those outside CA, use Google Earth View to understand the terrain of the freeways and you will know what I mean.

    15. ...handling is bad, I heard it wobbles and drifts all over...
    Ouch! Where did that come from??? I normally offer them a ride and that ends that.

    16. ...holy-cow! that little itty bitty thing runs the whole car???...
    Wrong. The little 12V under the hood does not run the car. The hybrid battery pack is hidden elsewhere.

    Share yours!!!
  • suvhunter1suvhunter1 Member Posts: 5
    I am considering the HH, because 1) gas prices are getting (have gotten) so out of hand, 2) it is the only hybrid I've seen that offers 4WD and we'll be going to the mountains a lot every weekend in the winter, 3) it is the only one I've seen that offers a towing package up to 3500 pounds.

    However, my concerns are this: 1) does it really have great power in the mountains, especially if you are towing something like a Waverunner? Does it have enough torque?
    2) Does it have a lot of road noise? Our current vehicle does and conversations with those in the back seat are basically impossible. We're trying to avoid that.

    Would you recommend this vehicle based upon what I've just mentioned? Thanks!
  • hydriverhydriver Member Posts: 1
    shilolady, You say you get 42-43 mpg on the way to work - what's your daily average on the return trip home?

    I live in the mountains east of Salt Lake and get good mileage downhill to work (32-34 mpg) but I get clobbered on the uphill way home - the best I can get is 20-22 mpg. That's what keeps my tank average down around 24-26 mpg. I'm envious of your 29-30 average!
  • spbergspberg Member Posts: 1
    i live in FL. sea level, warm temps, no hills. is there a better climate for gas milage?
  • shilohladyshilohlady Member Posts: 24
    Hydriver - I agree going uphill kills the mileage. My drive home averages around 20-22 mpg also. For the steep uphill grades, I'm doing good to maintain 10mpg on the instantaneous. If you calculate that out, for every miel at 10mpg, you need to go 2 more miles on pure EV or near infinite MPG to average 30mpg. The actual "up and down" is about 1/2 of the commete, I then go across town on surface streets - tried freeway a few times (before the HiHy) but inevitably there's an accident or something making the commute as long or longer time-wise.

    Best advice is to try to coast as much as possible, take it easy, try to avoid using all that tempting power we have when heading uphill (hard at times I know!). I really don't think I've changed my driving habits very much, I've always been a fairly conservative driver. I DO pay more attention to times when I can coast or back off on the accelerator to get into EV but that's about it.
  • shilohladyshilohlady Member Posts: 24
    spberg - I honestly can't tell you. I was getting decent mileage while visiting family in CA - close to sea level but they do have hills. I believe that there are people in FL getting good mileage but I don't have much experience to draw on . A good site for seeing "real world" mileage being obtained by people is greenhybrid.com - they have a database where anyone can post their mileage with each fill-up. I know that for the 4WD version, you'll see lifetime averages ranging from 21-22 all the way up to 29-30pmg - the database average for the 4WD is currently at 20mpg and I believe the FWD is at 26.
  • mevandemevande Member Posts: 190
    I am impressed (really!) re: 16 myths debunked. Now that all was shared, does it really pay to get a HH vs a standard Highlander and body style is a bit tired and will be changed for 2008 model year (a year from now I bet w/ early into.. according to all trade rags)
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    This is strictly a personal choice.
    HH is far more powerful than the ICE version, which btw is very good.
    Does driving a cleaner vehicle suit your needs?
    You will get a much better deal now on the current model than later on with the updated model.

    Yes the new Highlander should be out next year. I'm predicting that they will link the HSD with the 2.4L a la the new TCH in order to provide V6 power with much better fuel economy. Nothing is definite though.
  • howie3howie3 Member Posts: 3
    We love our Highlander hybrid, but we just had a bad experience with it: A message appeared that said "Check Hybrid System", and it stopped driving and could not be restarted. We had it towed to the Toyota dealer. They found that the computer that is activated by the gas pedal had stopped working. They said this was a rare occurance with the 2006 Highlander Hybrid. Hss anyone else had this problem?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Great summary post BTW. Now whenever anyone posts a question to the board I think I'll just refer them to post #2890 which should answer most questions. :shades:
  • cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    :) Glad to know it may be useful. My wife and I get asked enough times now that we are actually thinking of making a hand-out and just pass them out. Last night, a man stopped me as I left Blockbuster after renting a movie. Same conversation, same questions, same semi-debate. I was glad to chat with him, we are a small town after all, but I was hungry and ready to get home. :)
  • cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    The HH has VDIM, SULEV rating and potential (no guarantee) to get 30-mpg (with some work). The HL has none of these. The question now is whether these extras are worth the extra cash. Several posters have mentioned better deals now, so the HH price may be dropping.

    The more I study the VDIM system, the more I like it but that is just me.
  • cdptrapcdptrap Member Posts: 485
    The HH has plenty of torque and power in the mountains. So much so that give it a bit of gas and it will rocket up a grade dangerously fast. We were loaded with people and gear. DO NOT know about towing though, we have not done that.

    This car is absolutely smooth and quiet, think Lexus. Not only can you carry a conversation, you can actually listen to and enjoy your music as you drive.

    The stock Goodyear Integrity tires did howl a little on freeways. After replacing them with stronger and better tires, the ride is practically silent on almost all surfaces.
  • discussion1discussion1 Member Posts: 103
    I gathered gas expnse data from a few friends. Not scientific because we all drive different roads at different time and at different speed and to different places. This just gives a clue as to why many are starting to notice the gas mileage issue.

    1. Toyota Land Cruiser - 22 gallons, $74 dollars every 4 days. 65-mi daily commute.
    2. '05 V6 BMW X3 - 17 gallons, $55 every 4 days. 70 miles daily round-trip commute.
    3. '04 HUMMER H2 - 29 gallons, $94 every 5 days, 40-mile daily round-trip commute.
    4. '05 Chevy Silverado (w/ engine shut-off) - 23 gallons, $75 every 7 days, 50-mile daily round trip.
    5. '05 Tahoe - 23 gallons, $76 every 8 days, mostly 25 miles of daily in-town driving.
    6. '02 Explorer XLT 4WD - 20 gallons, $65 every 4 days, 70-mi daily commute.

    Our '06 HH - 15 gallons, $48 every 6 days, 60-mi daily commute.

    Cost per 1000 miles at $3.24 a gallon:
    Land Cruiser $279. ($146 over HH)
    BMW $196. ($63 over HH)
    HUMMER H2 $470. ($337 over HH)
    Silverado (Wannabe hybrid) $214. ($81 over HH)
    Tahoe $380. ($247 over HH)
    Explorer $232. ($99 over HH)
    Highlander Hybrid $133.

    If you take these numbers and extrapolate to 50000 miles, it starts to look really good for the HH. I drive our HH a bit fast, not too conservative, averaging around 24-mpg.
  • wiscbadgerwiscbadger Member Posts: 3
    My wife and I are thinking about getting a new SUV, as our family needs are beginning to require more room than our sedans currently have to offer. We're considering a hybrid for fuel efficiency's sake, but I'm not certain its necessary. My wife and I live about two miles away from our offices, and occasionally do some long-distance driving but not a whole lot (I've had my car 8 years and have 82k miles on it). I read a review on the Highlander Hybrid that the fuel savings aren't really there for city driving under 10-15 minutes because it takes a while for the gas engine to run at peak efficiency. Is this true? I've been reading posts where people are saying that the mileage isn't as advertised, and I'm wondering if we'd wind up dropping extra $ for a hybrid and getting mpg closer to a standard SUV. I'm wondering if there's a Highlander hybrid owner out there with similar driving requirements who can tell us if it makes sense to continue looking at hybrids exclusively, or might we do better to expand our search? Thanks!
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Your driving profile doesnt fit the HH very well unless you love the vehicle, it's features and the environmental benefit it offers.

    Honestly unless you are unlucky enough to have to change your minimal driving pattern your understanding about the limitations is accurate. Short trips and cold weather ( Wisc ) will kill fuel economy on every vehilce so spending extra is frankly not a good idea.

    The EPA FE values are reasonable if you spend enough time in the vehicle or you can be in mild weather a good part of the year.
  • ighigh Member Posts: 60
    Have been waiting for some time to get some info on
    the new model but Toyota is keeping it a tight secret.
    Here is what I would like though:

    1. 5 inches longer for more meaningful third row.
    2. 8 passenger capability like the Pilot (split folding
    3rd row and second row for 2 to 8 passenger
    configuration)
    3. less than 4000 lbs with AWD (using Toyota innovation)
    Though this is a design issue I think this needs to be
    true to meet the performance and mpg wishes.
    4. 230 HP (160 ICE + 70 Electric) for 0-60 mph about 9 sec.
    5. 40/33 mpg EPA for the AWD
    6. Upgradable to plug-in when technology available
    7. Flex fuel - 100% Ethanol to 100% Gas
    8. Fully Loaded MSRP - 40K

    Will Toyota laugh when they see this or is this feasible?
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Just why do you want, wish for, 4 & 5 ??

    With a relatively slight and inexpensive modification you can plug in and recharge your hybrid batteries anytime you wish.

    That will get you down the road about 5 miles.
  • wiscbadgerwiscbadger Member Posts: 3
    I guessed as much. I may take it for a test drive, just because I like doing that, to see if there's anything else that draws me to the vehicle. But, I think we'll also expand our search. Thank you for your time and info.
  • gaskidgaskid Member Posts: 5
    I'm wondering about the impact of sever winter climates on a hybrid. I live in Minnesota and am considering buying a HH. Does anyone have any experience with the HH in the cold north country - 6 months below freezing and temps at minus 20F or lower for a few days each winter?

    Thanks!
  • 8241582415 Member Posts: 38
    I live in Southern Ontario, Canada and the weather here is similar to what you described. No problem whatsoever since Jan 06 for my HiHy other than the reduced MPG as mentioned in numerous other posts (but what vehicle does not suffer from this issue). On the positive side, the VDIM was awesome in snow and ice based on my personal experience :D . You can read the review from this source as well:

    http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/traction2006.htm
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    You might want to step over the Canadian border to buy one. The Prius has an optional electrical heater for defog/demist/defrost mode, windshield airflow, but its only fitted to Canadian vehicles.
  • jbolltjbollt Member Posts: 736
    You might want to step over the Canadian border to buy one

    In my opinion, this is not a good idea for a US resident. There will be all kinds of nightmares in registering the vehicle in the US. To name just one, the speedo will be in k/h vs m/h. Lighting equip may be different as well...
  • 8241582415 Member Posts: 38
    I echo this. Vice versa for going the other way otherwise I would have bought the US version for the Nav integrated with power distribution/consumption screen. In Canada, the Nav is a separate unit and the rest are displayed in a smaller screen :cry:
  • ighigh Member Posts: 60
    I think 4 & 5 is a good compromise between adequate
    power and fuel economy.

    (I am basing these numbers on the 4 cyl RAV4 and the
    Camry Hybrid)

    5 miles is not enough - about 20-25 miles under 60 mph
    should be good for daily commute/city driving.

    5 miles may work if there are charging outlets everywhere
    and the charging time is within 30 mins.
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