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Toyota Tundra New Owner Reports

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  • The window sticker is $33,640 I do not want to disrespect the dealership with too low of an offer. So I would like to offer $25,640 Thats -$8000. Does anyone know if they will bit on this offer or just laugh at me. Thanks joe
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Here's one view of how easily the Tundra might get to 200K units if not 300K in 2008.

    Annual Sales
    Ford.... 900,000 units
    GM...... 900,000
    Dodge... 350,000
    Toyota.. 120,000
    Nissan.. 60,000

    Because of ...
    an old style, smallest engine, turmoil a the top and 50% of workers leaving Ford loses 20% of it's sales ( 10% GM / 10% Toyota ) - 180,000 units
    Dodge which is in an incredible mess ( see Det Press ) with an old design loses 20% of it's sales ( 10% GM / 10% Toyota ). -70,000 units
    Nissan with a capable but very limited vehicle ( two cabs, one engine, very limited payload ) lose 10% - 6,000 units

    GM actually gains sales overall ( Lutz' view ) to 1.0-1.1 Million units. + 150,000 units
    Toyota gains the rest of the 'defectors' as well as increasing it's deliveries to current Tundra owners ( + 20% ) + 130,000 units

    It wouldn't be too hard to envision a jump to 200K+ units in 2008 ( 2007 is only a part year ).

    However if gas jumps to $4.00/Gal all bets are off, anything could happen.
  • chevy598chevy598 Posts: 162
    I think its possible they could sell 200k a year with some good luck, but anything more and were starting to get ahead of ourselves.
    For years Dodge has made a living putting attractive sheet metal over unreliable under pinnings, and they still sell 350k a year. Dodge Ram owners are almost as fanatical about their rides as mustang owners. Toyota will have a tough time getting Ram owners to leave their trucks. Even when you drive by in your reliable Tundra and their stuck on the side of the road with a blown transmission.
    Fords unveiling their new Super Duty at the NA auto show in January. The Americans pour money into updating their trucks every year. Their so afraid of losing market share in a "bread & Butter" segment.
    Check out the long term road review of the Silverado over at Inside Line and you'll see how solid the product choices already are. When a long term review has 3k miles on it and the only complaint is the heater buttons, you can see how competitive the segment is.
  • maple2maple2 Posts: 177
    there seems to be alot of attention paid to tow ratings of these 1/2 ton trucks, and all the manufacturers are guilty to a point but lets be reasonable here what good is 10,000# capacity? using the rule of thumb that you need 10% tongue weight so thats 1000# on the back of your truck, with the proper weight distribution hitch you might have enough payload capacity left to carry a full tank of gas. Now I pull a 7000# trailer with my 1/2 ton chev and i certainly know its there. It is stable and the truck is rated for more but that is all i am comfortable pulling with it. I guess my point is "physically " anyone can throw in a bigger engine and transmission and the truck will pull 20,000# but without the proper frame, suspension etc... who cares. If you need a serious towing truck(which i consider 10,000lbs serious) then go for a 3/4t or even a 1t
  • chevy598chevy598 Posts: 162
    You make a great point. If a person is going to do serious hauling there not even looking at the trucks were talking about. There out buying heavy duties and/or diesel engines.
    It takes a backend loaded with dirt, stone, or an iron block to see the suspension sag on the average 1/2 ton. There's not a lot of things you can put in a truck bed that will max out payload capacity without hauling a trailer.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    For years Dodge has made a living putting attractive sheet metal over unreliable under pinnings, and they still sell 350k a year. Dodge Ram owners are almost as fanatical about their rides as mustang owners. Toyota will have a tough time getting Ram owners to leave their trucks

    Here is that data that Toyota has found in truck buyers..

    Dodge buyers are the least loyal. Nearly 65% of them would consider another vehicle.
    GM buyers are the next likely to switch. 65% of current Tundra owners were GM owners previously.
    Over 50% of Ford buyers would never consider anything other than a Ford. This was before the recent turmoil.

    It only addresses buyers' sentiments.

    Even when you drive by in your reliable Tundra and their stuck on the side of the road with a blown transmission.

    Please, rather than continuing an intelligent exchange you're falling into the 'hopes of the detroiters' context. 'I sure hope this Tundra falls on it's face because if it's as good as the rumors then my [ fill-in-a-name ] is going to look pretty weak in comparison.' 'Please let the Tundra fall on it's face. Don't let them get this right too.'

    Am I right?
  • chevy598chevy598 Posts: 162
    The great thing about this battle is its not going to be fought on the East and West coast. Its going to be fought in the Mid West, Texas, Interior West, and the South. The only way Toyota is going to sell 200k Tundras is if everybody in California trades in their Camry for a Truck. This isn't the first time Toyota had big plans for the US pickup market, and the last time they fell on their face. They planned on selling a whole lot more then 120k a year. I don't have numbers on me because it was so long ago, but I think they had bigger sales goals when the last Tundra came out. Toyota still has extra capacity at their truck plant in Indiana that their not using. A couple years ago I heard how Nissan was going to have the big 3 running in fear with the new Titan. So far the Japanese 0-2 in the pickup segment.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    You misread all the signs.. Looking at the broader picture this is the trend you'd see.

    80-90's small pickup
    mid 90's 1st Gen Tacoma
    2003 Tacoma takes over the midsized category ( with the Frontier )

    mid 90's T100
    MY 2000 1st Gen Tundra
    MY 2007 Tundra blast onto the scene with class leading everything.

    This has never been about one specific model or year. This is about 7-15 years from now. The NGT will be class leading and it'll be up to all the rest to react. If Ford and Dodge can't solve their internal problems they will just fall by the wayside.

    Wanna bet on past performance that when Toyota decides to make a big investment it wont pay off? This is a given. It's only a matter of time.
  • chevy598chevy598 Posts: 162
    A year from now Texas will be a one shift operation kicking out 150k a year. I would't call it blasting. It kinda looks like a Hot Wheels on the outside, and looks like cheap plastic on the inside.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    You're reverting to childishness. But even if it were so how would the other three feel being thrashed by a Hot Wheels.

    Again you miss the point. This isn't about 2007 or even 2008. It's about 2012 thru 2015 and putting 500K to 700K Tundras on the road every year, just like the Camry and Corolla, and making a bundle of money in doing it. If it take 4 yrs then that's what it'll take. If it's 8 yrs well then it'll be 8 yrs.

    It will get done one way or another. When a company invests this much money in a new plant, especially Toyota, then it will be a success.
  • chevy598chevy598 Posts: 162
    Well you are obviously an import lover, and love to hype a truck that you haven't taken a ride in yet. Do you even own a full size truck? The last Tundra was supposedly Best in Class, and where has that got them. 15 years ago Toyota planned on moving 500k a year by now, and where are they now (120K). Looks wise the new Tundra design is a step backwards inside and outside compared to the older truck. Toyota should stick to boring exteriors. Every time Toyota tries to make a hip exterior they go way overboard. It's almost like they try to hard.
    Your numbers speak for themselves. 50% of all F-150 buyers wouldn't even consider buying another brand. 35% of Dodge & GM buyers wouldn't consider another brand. So by your numbers over 40% of all truck buyers are not going to consider another brand. Let alone a Japanese brand. In an earlier post you speculated Ford could lose 180k a year to Toyota because of an older model. How is that going to happen when 50% off all F-150 buyers wouldn't own another truck regardless of quality or capability? Lets see a poll of how many domestic truck owners would ever set foot in a Japanese dealership.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Your numbers speak for themselves. 50% of all F-150 buyers wouldn't even consider buying another brand. 35% of Dodge & GM buyers wouldn't consider another brand. So by your numbers over 40% of all truck buyers are not going to consider another brand. Let alone a Japanese brand. In an earlier post you speculated Ford could lose 180k a year to Toyota because of an older model. How is that going to happen when 50% off all F-150 buyers wouldn't own another truck regardless of quality or capability? Lets see a poll of how many domestic truck owners would ever set foot in a Japanese dealership.

    Either math isn't your strong suit or you didn't read all of the data.

    I didn't say 180,000 Ford owners would move to Toyota. ( BTW this is only 20% of Ford's total sales. ) I estimated that Ford would lose 180,000 owners, probably because of cutbacks at the plants ( Norfolk ) and financial weakness, but that most of these lost sales would go to GM!!!!

    You missed that part I guess.

    Yes 50% won't consider anything but Ford but that means that 50% will look elsewhere. I guess you missed that point too.

    Your numbers speak for themselves. 50% of all F-150 buyers wouldn't even consider buying another brand. 35% of Dodge & GM buyers wouldn't consider another brand. So by your numbers over 40% of all truck buyers are not going to consider another brand.

    I will go along with this point that 40% of buyers ( F/GM/D ) won't consider any other brand. That seems reasonable. But it also says that 60% ( the majority of buyers ) will consider another brand. This seems to be what Toyota has found as well. Most buyers will consider another truck.

    Now about 'Lets see a poll of how many domestic truck owners would ever set foot in a Japanese dealership. ' Toyota and all automakers track the trade-ins at each store since it's part of the transaction. Toyota has found in it's Tundra sales that 65% of new Tundra owners are.....were prior GM owners!!

    Now what was it you were saying about who putting a foot in a Japanese dealership?
  • chevy598chevy598 Posts: 162
    Just because 60% of truck buyers will look at other brands doesn't mean even 10% of them are going to consider a Toyota. Cars do not have anywhere near that kind of brand loyalty. Toyota would be extremely happy if 40% of Camry owners would never consider a Accord or Nissan. Your 65% of previous Gm owners in Tundras were not driving silverados when they traded in. GM has picked up truck market share over the last 15 years. Like I said earlier, you are hyping a truck that hasn't even been in a long term test yet. The older Tundra is a far better looking ride. Go read the long term review of the silverado at inside lines. The Silverado sure looks like perfection on wheels to everybody reviewing it.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    You seem to be of the opinion that by saying the Tundra will succeed that somehow I'm knocking the GM product. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I think both will be very very successful.

    As you will read back above I will certainly derfer to Lutz if he thinks GM will go to 1.0+ Million vehicles I'll agree there too.

    GM has 2 winners with the GMT900's. Your wish that the Tundra will fail is wishful thinking at best.
  • chevy598chevy598 Posts: 162
    I don't think Toyota will fail. I just don't think Toyota is going to take as much market share as you do. In fact I wouldn't doubt the Titan is eliminated in a few more years, because of the Tundra. I can see 150k to 200k a year in sales for the Tundra if they don't have to many quality problems.
    I just think you are under playing the pro American attitude of large truck & suv buyers. The day you look at the back window of a Tundra, and see Calvin pissing on a Nissan logo you'll know the Japanese have made a dent in the truck segment.
    Sorry about the Language.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    As weird as this may sound I am both a Chevy and Toyota truck fan. I've had two Chevy trucks in the stable in the past and loved them both. In 2004, I got rid of my Chevy and bought a Toyota. I really missed the styling of the Chevy as well as the power and torque. Nonetheless, I don't regret getting the Toyota because it has given me 45k trouble free miles thus far. I am anxious to see the new Tundra in person as well as driving it. Toyota needs to go bigger and badder to compete in this segment and that is what they did w/ the redesign. Toyota was also missing different engine options in its current design. A problem which is also going to be fixed w/ the redesign.
    All in all- I think both trucks are (or will be) a success. ;)
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "I just don't think Toyota is going to take as much market share as you do."

    Quite possibly - large truck/large SUV buyers can be a closed minded group unwilling to even TRY anything else, convinced in their own mind that all media reviews supporting THEIR favorite brand are correct, while media reviews praising the competition (particularly foreign competition) is 'obviously' biased.

    However, it was said 15 years ago that while the imports had a lock on the small car market, there was no way that they'd ever make serious inroads into the midsize family car market.....

    Care to look at market share for Chevy midsize cars vs. either the Camry or Accord?

    No one is saying that Toyota will have the MAJORITY of the truck market.....all that's being said is that their market share WILL grow. A lot of those buyers may well be Camry owners looking for a full-size truck to replace their F150 or Silverado.
  • chevy598chevy598 Posts: 162
    Are they going to have a smaller v8? If the Tundra really has 380-hp that thing is going to drink a lot of gas. I don't care what any dealer says that thing is going to get about 14 mpg overall with 380-hp. GM doesn't sell vary many trucks with the optional 6.0L, and I think its got 365-hp. I heard the 6.0L vortec gets a whopping 12 mpg overall.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    According to Edmunds, the redesign will have 3 engines, a V6, 4.7L V8 and the 5.7L.

    IMHO, I don't think people who buy large trucks/SUV's with large motors w/ gobs of hp and torque really care about gas mileage. ;)
  • chevy598chevy598 Posts: 162
    They do. Both Ford & GM have a hard time selling the optional big gas motors. If people need more power they jump straight to the diesels nowadays. HD/SD diesels are all over the place. GM sells so few of the 6.0L vortecs that they don't even put a special badge on the truck.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. My position is that anyone who drives a full size truck or SUV is not looking for Civic/Corolla type gas mileage even with the smallest engine configurations.

    "GM sells so few of the 6.0L vortecs that they don't even put a special badge on the truck."

    You sure? I was reading Edmunds' review of the 07 Silverado and they state:

    "Plastered on the side of our redesigned 2007 Chevrolet Silverado test truck is a bright red badge that reads "Vortec Max." It's the best name Chevrolet could come up with for the top-of-the-line 6.0-liter V8 under the hood, but we're not digging it."
  • chevy598chevy598 Posts: 162
    I work at a GM truck plant that builds all 4 door Chevy/Gmc HDs. After 9/11 and gas prices shot up demand for the 6.0L disappeared. We build 350 trucks per shift and you're lucky if 10 trucks have the 6.0L. We average about 60% with the Duramax Diesel and 40% 5.3L vortec. GM builds more HDs with Diesel engines then all gas engines combined. Before 9/11 we averaged close to 20 6.0L vortecs a day and 60% 5.3L vortec. The last 6 years demand for diesels has sky rocketed. I don't know what the ratios are for Ford & Dodge. I think GM does a little more diesel business then competitors, because the Duramax is hands down the best truck engine in the world. Thank god for Isuzu Motors.You're probably right about the vortec badge. The 2006 models didn't have it, and we haven't switched over to the 2007's yet. Chevy/GMC HD's start being built in mid February and should hit the dealers in late March.
    Hey kdhspyder, just because I work for GM doesn't mean I don't like foreign cars. I would love to get my hands on a Lexus. Now thats a car I consider "Best in Class", and would look nice parked next to my Silverado.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    "I think GM does a little more diesel business then competitors, because the Duramax is hands down the best truck engine in the world. Thank god for Isuzu Motors."

    I have a friend w/ a Cummins that would probably beg to differ ;)

    Happy motoring :D
  • chevy598chevy598 Posts: 162
    Yeah so would a bunch of Ford guys, but the numbers don't lie. GM went from no Diesels to market leader overnight and has had the crown for a while. Those Ford & Dodge diesels are so damn loud it's scary. My neighbors got a 2004 SD powerstroke Ford he swears is the best, but you can hear him comming a block away. Isuzu has the best commercial diesels in the world, and Gm paid big bucks to get that technology. The American diesel makers lag behind asian & european makers.
  • chevy598chevy598 Posts: 162
    I just seen the crew cab Tundra and have to say it's better looking then the extended cab. Looks a little to big, but a better look.
  • The truck is rated 381 horsepower and 405 pounds feet torque.My friend works for my local dealership and that waht he says are the final figures.Thats a bit too powerful for only a 5.7 Liter V8. It should get a responsive 325-340 horsepower and 360-390 pounds feet torque. Thats just too much. It will probally get 10 or 11 MPG city and maybe 16 MPG hwy. Are they tring to build an army tank or something. It looks good but it has way to much power(bad gas mileage).The new Silverado and Sierra can get 21 MPG hwy. The way the gas is going up Nobody will buy the new Tundra's. Pretty soon the gas will be $4 a gallon and Toyota will get very little sales. Then they will have to do something about it then. (decrease in power)
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    The 5.7 engine the most powerful engine that will be offered by Toyo. There are 2 smaller engines available- one of them being the 4.7 V8. I do agree with you that it will undoubtedly have low gas mileage but then again people who buy full size SUV's and trucks do not expect record breaking gas mileage. The "big" engine offerings by Dodge, Ford and GM do not have exceptional gas mileage either. People who need heavy duty trucks w/ powerful engines and a bunch of torque IMHO are not using their rigs for quick runs to the grocery store. Their probably using it for work, play (towing boats e.g.) or both.
    To say that "nobody will buy the new Tundra's" is a overstatement.
  • serranotserranot Posts: 113
    The amount of peak horsepower it puts out does not necessarily correlate to no gas mileage. It is a function of weight, gearing, and the amount of right boot to name a few. A Corvette can get 25+ miles per gallon and it has over 400 hp.

    Regards,
    Tom
  • rdsumrdsum Posts: 12
    The 5.7 engine looks like a good one. Does it have a timing chain or does one have to replace the timing belt as a "regular" maintenance item? It is interesting how the costs build at the dealer when they suggest other things to replace at the same time as the belt.

    Toyota will not be able to sell 200,000 Tundras if they only have one or two on their lot to sell. Toyota dealers in Canada do not stock trucks to any great extent. Just have a look at a Ford or Chev dealer and you can take your pick of color and options. It is going to be an interesting few years to see how Toyota is going to fare in the "real" truck market.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    In three weeks we'll know more about the 5.7L but Toyota is going toward timing chains on all their engines.
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