Toyota TACOMA vs Ford RANGER - III

cpousnr

Notice the www.nhtsa.dot.gov is the
VERY SAME homesite that spoog loves to post when it comes to what he thinks is quality issues.

Well spoog, the same site is not real complemntry to the Tacoma in crash test safety.

And spoog, please, rather than just COUNTING the number of occurances on a site, LOOK INTO tht number of DUPLICATES and the EXACT CONTENT of the report.

A while back you challenged anyone to find duplicate posts on the NHTSA site.
Well I DID find duplicate reports, I called you on it in a previous post citing the NUMBERS that were duplicate and the NUMBER of duplications and you have been silent.

mmcbride1

First, I do live and have lived in Colorado my whole life. Second, if you had taken the time to read my previous posts, I have a '98 4Runner(w/ a 4.10 diff and 265/70x16 tires, no locker), not a Tacoma (I just like Toyota's, that's why I'm in this topic). Third, are Imogene, Engineer, Ophir, and the bottom half of Black Bear pass rough enough for you? I did all of them this summer when I was down in the Durango/Ouray/Telluride area this summer, so don't tell me that I don't know what I am talking about when it comes to rough trails (BTW, my "open" diff works just great, off road and on road in poor conditions).

Vince, don't tell me people won't take a Toyota into rough territory. There's not a scratch on mine (if you know what you are doing and you're not an idiot, there's little chance of damaging your truck).

One more thing, cpousner, you forgot to concede resale value to the Toyota. They may cost more at the outset, but you will sell it for more when that time comes.

sredman1

Just comparing the compalaints database for '98 rangers and '98 tacomas.(since that is spoogs 4wheeler test year) here is what i found..

Ranger:
202 compaints some dups
7 number of indepeendent incedents that involved injury
3.5% rate of complaint's that there were injuries..

Tacoma:
88 compaints some dups
7 number of indepeendent incedents that involved injury
8% rate of complaint's that there were injuries..

Analysis: now at first one might say 202 to 88.. that sounds bad for the ranger. NOW lets accept that the ranger sells more than 4 X's the number of trucks, basic statistics say that that more vehicles on the road will result in more incedents. now let pretend that toyota could sell as many tacoma as ford sells rangers. the ranger number of complaints would stay at 202 while the toyota would be 4 X 88 = 352... wow now that is 202 to 352 in fords favor... hmm intersting huh??

one last note.. ALL of the injury incents on the toyota Involved the airbags NOT working.. Now thats not just interesting , that is SCARY.

just me having fun with numbers

spoog

lol. Looks like you skipped a few doses eh Cspounser? lol.



Cspounser writes:

"But more importaintly, show me what a Tacoma can
do, other than beat Rangers at lights and 1/4 mile
runs. I will concede those two items, and course
price being higher, but nothing else."


Ok, I will doofus:

4wheeler:

"the tacoma beat the ranger in every single performance related category, and was the offroad champ. It was the unanimous decision of our staff. The taomca offers features other s just dont, and they all work well. This is the best all around truck package avialable".

Just so you know Cspunser....performance is handling, braking ect. And, as we all know, the Ranger "whoopty-dooed" as the Tacoma blazed the trails. 4wheeler just gushed about it's offroad performance verse the Ranger. So did Peterson offroad magazine in June.....Oh, I suggest you pick it up as they ranked the Tacoma ove rthe ranger ALSO.


No offense CSpounser, but you have become dellusionsal. 4wheeler AND Petersons offroad?
Unanimous? "championship team" , "delicate ranger suspension"? " delicate ranger crawl ratio?"


I will tell you what. Ill come out to the Cristos and absolutely EMBARRASS your po-dink ranger with its wimnpy gearing, no horsepwower and 7 inch ground clearance and poor crawl ratio.

YOU screwed up Cspounser , you should have gotten the payload option that enables your truck to haul 1500 lbs. YOu also should have gotten the 4:10 gearing, but you didnt.

Like I said, with all the features my Taco has, + the trd charger, you will be thoroughly embarrassed!!!!

Dont forget that in the high country, its good to have alot of horsepower AND torque.

Cant wait to watch you "whoopte-doo" over the ruts as you dissapear from my rear view mirror!!! lol!!!!!!!

Then Ill head over to the real mountain range, The San Juans.

jwsmith

I'm glad you have "4 Wheeler" to make you feel good about your choice of a Tacoma. Consumer Report rates Ranger a "Best Buy" and Edmunds has Ranger as a "Top 20." So what? I don't care about "crawl gear" - I want to go places. Resorting to name calling or suggesting another is less intelligent than you because they do not share your opinion or place greater importance on other factors than you detracts from your posting. I could afford to spend more and buy a Tacoma - but chose a Ranger because it better suited my needs. As a consumer, I like the ability to order what I want and not have to go through additional layers of distributors. If I'm going to put 5 or 6 thousand dollars in a manufacturer's coffers - I'd just as soon it be a USA one and let the government handle foreign aid.

cthompson21

I was just wondering if you have ever even taken your toyota on a gravel road, let alone any sort of trails. I think that you are probably an off-road poseur (no offense intended, i'm not attacking you but only making some observations). I think you bought your vehicle for some sort of image and not its intended purpose. There are a couple of things I've read in your posts that hints towards this:

(1) Your only knowledge of off-roading seem to come from two magazine articles that you frequently quote word for word (and over, and over, and over, etc...). They seem to be your only argument in Toyota vs. Ranger. I don't even think you know what half of the tech data you're posting even means. I think that you might want to educate yourself by reading about torque (and at what rpm's it occurs at), crawl ratios & gearing, limited slip differentials, technical service bulletins, factory recalls, off-road suspensions vs. on-road suspensions (i asked you to explain the differences, and you didn't/couldn't), skid-plates, quality surveys, vehicle technical ratings (surprise! they come from the manufacturers who often have different methods for determining ratings), and vehicle safety (very, very important).

(2) You said "If you were following me, and I came across some serious mud on the trail, I
would just flip my little locker switch and pass on through." If you truly knew about your truck and off-roading, you would know that the locker is only good up to 5mph. While this is great for crawling over rocks and up mountains, it really shouldn't be used for 'mudding'. If you encounter mud, you need to keep your speed and revs up. Gingerly crawling through it, as you suggest would most likely get you stuck regardless of locker, LSD, 4wd, Ranger, or Tacoma.

(3) You seem to think that 0-60 times and 1/4 times indicate which truck is the better 4x4. I don't really get this one. If you're after high speed performance, look at the new Toyota Celica or Toyota MR2 Spyder (really neat car). They'll both run circles around your truck. Even my SVT Contour for 20K will beat every truck on the market except the Lightning.

I might suggest getting a Toyota Prerunner for yourself. They have the looks of a 4x4, if that's what you're after, and it will cost you a lot less than a Tacoma TRD. You could even add the TRD supercharger and still be way ahead.

I know you'll pick my post apart, pulling quote after quote, twisting my words, and attack me by calling me some sort of imaginative names or suggesting that I am an escaped mental patient in need of treatment and medication. That's fine. It's actually quite amusing.

If you'd like some ammo, I'll tell you about my truck. It's a '98 Ranger 4x4 with the 4.0L and the 5-speed auto. It's got all the power options and such. It doesn't even have a limited slip differential. It's got the 3.73's instead of the 4.10's (I wanted it to be a comfortable high-way cruiser). The worst that it encounters is snow (when I tow my 'doo's up to go snowmobiling in Wis, extremely beautiful country) and some trails/light off-road duty during hunting trips to northern Il and Co. Unfortunately, it's got an automatic (to appease the wife). I prefer manual tranny's, but it serves about 95% of its duties on the road.

So, have fun with this one. If you've got some useful information/experience to put on the board, please post. I'm not talking about your two favorite articles here. We've all committed them to heart. If you like, I'm sure all of the guys on the board would chip in to have the articles printed on a t-shirt for you for an early x-mas present.

Don't take everything so personal. I'm just joking wit ya...

Later,
-C

mmcbride1

I've got to admit, I'm beginning to agree with Thompson (about you, not the Tacoma vs. Ranger). Please post something other than an article. How about a personal experience?

scape2

Ouch.

scape2

CP, sent you some pictures of me and my friends at MT Hood. Now, they aren't action shots because I am usually behind the wheel of my truck and can't hold a camera or get out and take pictures while trying to manuever. Just proves I do own a Ranger, and damn proud of it. Tacoma's are overpriced and overrated!

spoog

What good is heresay and anecdotes? I can tell you all in detail of my steelhead fishing trips into the woods and the nightly safaris into the bush, but it wont prove a damn thing.

I can tell you of the trip into Southern Colorado,
up into the SOuth San Juan Range in May when the trails are muddy slop, but it wont mean a thing.


As for the locker, YOU CAN GO OVER 5MPH here people. Have you been paying attention? YOu just cant get out of hand with it. Or make super sharp turns at high speed. PLowing straight through mud at higher revs ans spedd is NOT a problem at all. So , in turn , I ask YOU have YOU ever been offroading.....since it seems you have never seen a locker in action. SOme of you asked all these questions about the Totyota locker, like it is some mysterious part. I run the trails with other folks who use lockers.

It looks like many of you have never seen one in action. That tells me alot.

cpousnr

Send them again. I often delete strange, unknown mail with attachments as I once opened an unknown attachment and it ate my hard drive.
Cpousnr@aol.com
What prefex would it start with and I will look for it?

mmcbride1
I suffer from CRS, Can't Remember ahhh, STUFF.
Well, I would be most impressed if you took the upper 2/3 of Black Bear and had a pic of Bridel Veil Falls, but as it is rated a 6 level of difficulty in the 4 wheeling book I use, honesty would suggest that only a highly artilculated vehicle about the size of an ATV would best make it in that part.

The 4- Runner by the way scored 4 stars front impact and 5 stars side impact in the referenced testing. Surprising as I use to THINK the Tacoma and 4-Runner shared a great deal of hardware like the frame.

Now don't tell me you have a Native bumper sticker do you? The passes you reference are all rated a 3-4 in difficulty and an 8-10 in scenic value on a scale of 1-10. That is about the limit of difficulty I ever want to do. Medano is 4, Hayden 3 and I would rate Music a 3 in difficulty.

mmcbride1

They are about as hairy as anything I am willing to subject my baby to. I did do the other side of Black Bear (I think that's what it is on the Telluride side) as well, but only up to the bottom of Bridal Veil falls. I'll leave the rest of Black Bear to someone with more guts and articulation than me or my truck possesses. I've gotta say, however, the views from those passes are unbelievable.

Yes, I believe the Tacoma and 4Runner share many parts, so it is interesting that the Tacoma didn't do better, esp. in side impact. You'd think it wouldn't be too hard to make them very similar structurally, but I'm no engineer.

BTW - I want a NATIVE sticker, but have not seen one anywhere, except on cars of other natives.

mmcbride1

If you are willing to go over passes and tough trails when they are wet and muddy, more power to you. Just don't call me for a tow out when you get stuck, or worse, slide off the face of the mountain. A locker can't save you from bad judgement.

mviglianco1

My brother in-law who lives in Grand Junction showed me some pictures of him taking his 87 stock 4-Runner with 235's over that pass. He said was one of the scariest things he has ever done. This an honest statement, I am not trying to be argumentative but as I am pricing similary equiped Rangers and Tacomas here in North Carolina I am not seing much of a difference. I looked at a Ranger last night with 3.0 that had an MSRP of over 24K. While I know this is just the MSRP but that is the same or more then some similarly equiped Tacomas I have seen. I must be doing something wrong.

I must admit that while I like the looks and clearance of the Tacoma I am much more impressed with the interior of the Ranger. I am rather dissapointed with how little the interrior has evolved from my 88 Toyota P-Up.

cpousnr

Got the pic, but understand it is a 1.6Meg bitmap that I will have to convert. I only have 2 Meg of space avail. per screen name, but give me a few days or if you could send a .gif or .jpg file, they are smaller. The ones I have on the site are currently maybe 40-90K. Also a 1.6Meg file would take forever to load.

mmcbride1
http://www.4wdbooks.com/adventure/index.htm
Check out this site. Outstanding 4 wheel drive book for colorado. Can be ordered for about 30 bucks. This book rates Black Bear a 10 of 10 for beauty, 6 of 10 for difficulty but also states it is the most deadly pass in the Colo Rockies, like very narrow shelf roads with a 1,500 ft drop off to the bottom. The author will not take his Suburban over it and states Jeep tour businesses will not allow their jeeps to go over it. Sounds like a walker to me.
Check out the site.

mmcbride1

Thanks for the link. I'll definitely check that book out. Talking about deadly, back in the 70's, my dad was up on some really hairy pass and saw a little memorial on the side. Later, he found out that a couple of weeks earlier a guy in his brand new Grand Wagoneer (faux wood panels and all) and his entire family went off the side. Unfortunately, all were killed. That's why I agree with you and I'll walk Black Bear and all the others with dangerous dropoffs with narrow , loose roads. I don't like off-roading enough to die doing it.

Now, back to the topic. Tacomas rule! Just ask spoog.

mmcbride1

Do you have any idea where I can get a NATIVE sticker. I really do want one, and haven't seen one in a long time.

parkman50

Well, I guess your native sticker request wasn't directed at me, but I have to share a good one with you. One of the girls I work with has a sticker that says "Not Native Texan, but I got here as fast as I could." I love it!!!

PS. Does anyone know the 0-60 time in a super charged Tacoma or 4-runner? I want to compare it to my 5.0 V-8 Mountaineer. (I blew off a taco yesterday without really trying hard. I also beat a 4-runner with the hood scoop a few weeks back. Yes, I know it's childish, but it was fun.)

Any info appreciated.

Happy Motoring.

cpousnr

Spencers Gifts, Walmart.
The whole rear bumper of a Texan trying to hide. . .
Ill look around

mmcbride1

But I have no idea what the 0-60 times are. I would guess 7.5-8ish for Tacoma and about .5 sec slower for 4Runner (I believe stock 4Runner is 9.5-10 sec. and SC adds 70-80 hp and 70-80 ft lbs of torque).

I lived in Texas for 5 years(college), and I got out and back to Colorado as soon as I could.

spoog

"If you are willing to go over passes and tough
trails when they are wet and muddy, more power to
you. Just don't call me for a tow out when you get
stuck, or worse, slide off the face of the
mountain. A locker can't save you from bad
judgement."

You are right on. The only real problem I have had in the Colorado high country is the damn altitude sickness due to coming up from sea level.
One time I even passed out in a smoky bar the first night I was up in town. That was fun.

Takes me about 3 days to acclimate before I can start getting up above 10k feet.

I guess the alcohol, smoking, smoky bar, and other substances being passed about at the prior party did not help.

mmcbride1

I don't notice the thin air now, but when I was in college and would come back for vacation, I always felt like I couldn't breathe for about a week. Simple things like climbing stairs becomes very taxing. All the drinking never helped me, either.

P.S.-I take back what I said earlier. You're OK.

cthompson21

Spoog, you asked "So , in turn , I ask YOU have YOU ever been offroading.....since it seems you have never seen a locker in action." Well, I guess you didn't read my post carefully. I said that the most my truck sees is snow (when I take my sleds up to Wis for some fun, and around Chicago too) and some light off-road duty during hunting trips. If I'm out on the trails, I'm on my Ski-Doo.

As for the locker, I would prefer a limited slip differential. For myself, it would be much more useful. It's active all of the time. I probably wouldn't even use the locker if I had it. I'm sure this is also true for about 95% of the people who buy 4wd trucks too. Most people who own a toy with a locker probably don't even know its proper use and would just damage their truck or themselves using it improperly. Many people buy a vehicle just for the image it portrays.

As far as "here-say and anecdotes," I believe that personal experience is the absolute best source of information. An article about a small group of trucks that a few guys jump in and out of during the course of a day doesn't hold much water with me. Drive a vehicle around for a few months at least and then tell me what you think. You'll know all about a vehicle's weak and strong points. Also, raw data drawn from websites just doesn't explain the factors behind it. I'm not saying that magazine articles and web sites are incorrect/misinformative (i get 3 mags a mo. and spend hours a week on the web). You just need to look into things yourself and not let a few people with unknown motives dictate their opinions as fact.

mviglianco1

How much did you pay for your 99 or Y2K 4x4 V6 extended cab? Did you order it? How long did it take? I need numbers to go to war with the salesman with!!!

mviglianco1

Same question

cpousnr

Vince.
Nice truck! But man how can you clear stuff with them there flimsy skid plates hangin down?
He, he!
Got it cropped down to 660K so just give me a few days, ok? Oh I know, if you had a pic of just the plates I would see the scrapes/bangs, kinda like mine.

Just heard an ad from a local ford dealer on 2000 Ranger Supercab, more than likely a 4X2, starting at $13,995. Included AM/FM, Air, V6(3.0?)and more. Add maybe 2K for a 4X4

cpousnr

http://www.users.fast.net/~jrbenek/runpics.html

Not my Ranger but some great pics and I think they are going over something other than a gravel road, unless your gravel is the size of a large turkey.

Enjoy they are some pics of Rangers at play.

spoog

LOL!!! That mud puddle was about what, 10 feet long? And look....the back end of the ranger with 33's is barely sunk, and the front tire is almost completely above the mud!!!! lol!!!!
There was plenty of grip for the front tire to pull the truck out of that puddle. I wonder why it couldn't. Man Cspounser, that really is nothing. THats a tiny med puddle. YOu think that is a match for a Tacoma trd with locking diff? Lol!


That looks similar to the area I go to in Michigans Upper Peninsula. But Cspounser, those were basically roads(except for the mud puddle).
CARS could have traversed those "trails". That
particular downhill stretch with the big boulder to the right is car material.

cpousnr

here.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/KLongenecker/splash.htm
Yeah, just a bunch of guys out fooling around, mine has been over wrose.
Trying to organize a group trip out of Denver this weekend to Rampart range. Hopefully would have pics that would put these to shame, other than the mud, kinda dry here now.

VINCE:
Got your pic down to 70K in jpg format and even etched your name on it, vince8. Look for it maybe by the weekend. Got my pics from Sangres coming in by friday and will update the whole site.

spoog

Cspounser...I found these pics of Tacoma offroad trips. YOU HAVE to check out the pic of the Toyota Tacoma TOWING out a FULL size f150 with 33's !!!! AMAZING!!!! And TWICE!!!


The f150 is maxed out with suspension lifts too!


http://www.tacomaterritory.com/,

then click on offroad adventures.


Now that first picture is some real mud and slop!

You may need to click on each picture to get a look at them.

ponm

Does anyone know the 0-60 times for both The Ford Ranger 3.0 4X4 reg cab and the Tacoma 2.7 reg cab 4x4. I was a little curious. Thank you.

cpousnr

here.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/KLongenecker/splash.htm
Yeah, just a bunch of guys out fooling around, mine has been over wrose.
Trying to organize a group trip out of Denver this weekend to Rampart range. Hopefully would have pics that would put these to shame, other than the mud, kinda dry here now.

VINCE:
Got your pic down to 70K in jpg format and even etched your name on it, vince8. Look for it maybe by the weekend. Got my pics from Sangres coming in by friday and will update the whole site.

cpousnr

Cannot find the original site but will post a pic of a stuck Tacoma on:
http://members.aol.com/Cpousnr/ford_toy.jpg

Vince, you will like that pic. Spoog will not. Kinda the same mud/water that resulted in your Ranger comment.

cpousnr

Got an email from a guy on that run.
They had to very stock Rangers and a 4X2, so they kept the run mild. They were just out having fun. So give that a bit of consideration before you judge.

parkman50

sure, but there wasn't any pictures of that tacoma going through there was there? I didn't think so. BTW, that 150 probably would have made it through that first pick of the mud (that the tacoma was being pulled out of.) LOL.

cpousnr

the one you reference. It would appear that the Ford is on dry land, pulling the Tacoma. Now if you look at the freeway, it is further away from the trucks than in your referenced picture.
That would indicate the Ford pulled the Tacoma out of the bog. The pics go from left to right 4th row, second column.

Very nice pics though but hard to tell who is pulling who. But it DOES look like there is dry road in front of the F250 in the picture you are refering to. However, there sure is mud behind that Tacoma.

cpousnr

on that first pic that is a tow strap getting ready to pull that Tacoma back.

Nice pics though.

spoog

yeah, there are 3 towing picks in all. ONe is of the HUGE f150 towing a stuck Tacoma out of a SERIOUS bog, and the other two are a Toyota Tacoma towing the giant f150 uphill out of a bog, and another towing the f150 out of some serious mud bogs.

spoog

Those pics showed the F150 getting pulled out TWICe, and the Tacos getting pulled once. They all ended up in the same location at the top of that sand dune after the deep water. That f150 probably has a 3-4 inch lift, maybe larger 33 tires, and insane ground clearance. Its definately got alot of aftermarket stuff on it.

Those pix really show just how tough a truck the tacoma is. Towing a huge modified f150 up a hill like that from a mud bog is just awesome.

hindsite

Well since you responded to my comment that puts you into a class by yourself.
BTW in your area there is a TRD cruising around at this web site.

http://www.telisphere.com/~mpampo/tacomamain.html

hindsite

http://www.leeca.esu.k12.oh.us/ofcs/ofhs/stu9798/my/web.htm

hindsite

http://www.americanwomanmag.com/rt_tacoma.html

hindsite

A lot has been said of the Tacoma's crash test, but here are some unmentioned aspects in regards to the seats. http://www.insure.com/auto/models/hrtruck.html

mmcbride1

You never did answer my question several posts ago. You must agree with me that a V6 Tacoma w/o TRD is superior to a Ranger since all of your arguments against the Tacoma are related to the TRD. Your silence speaks volumes.

mmcbride1

Funky music from the link in post #96.

hindsite

Toyota Tacoma in the middle of the pack? Then who is on top or the bottom?

http://www.fadmag.com/autostyl/toyotataco.html

hindsite

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/small_pickups/crash_pickups.htm

Is there a difference between a 4x4 and a regular 2wd in height during the crash?

hindsite

http://primetimenewspapers.com/autoreview/tacoma.htm

scape2

MMC, I guess I did not see your post.
No, The Tacoma without the TRD package is inferior to a Ranger. The Ranger offers a limited slip rearend that is always available at ANY time. The TAcoma without the TRD package offers an OPEN axle. Only ONE tire spins in the rear. I chose the TRD to go up against because of its outragous price tag of over 23K! The locker is very limited to use of 5mph. Toyota sounds like its covering itself by limiting the speed of use. And when disengaged it becomes an OPEN axle. Not too useful in towing, hauling or general use. Like I said, enjoy the sticker! LOL.
CP now has a picture of my Ranger. I chose to show the truck only on a riverbed up on MT Hood. This is off the Barlow Trail about 7 miles in. No action shots this time wanted to get one on the net asap and prove, I do own a Ranger and do use it as an outdoors vehicle, not a grocery getter.
Liked the pics everyone.

scape2

Hind, just shot yourself in the foot. the post 102 has a price tag of over 27K!! Like I said the Tacoma is an extremly pricey compact truck. Overpriced and overrated!