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BMW X3 vs Subaru Forester XT vs Infiniti FX 35 vs Toyota RAV4

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Comments

  • overtime1overtime1 Posts: 134
    Here are some interesting results of a comparo that was done. I'd put more faith in these results as conditions and parameters used in the tests are probably more consistent since all vehicles were tested at the same time:

    http://members.rogers.com/ajac/results.htm

    One thing to notice right away (besides the raw speed) is that even with tires that are admittedly not high performance and have a SMALL footprint that the XT brakes as fast (essentially) as the FX45. Who'd have thunk it?!?! :-) What happens when the tires are upgraded even a smidge? Hrmmmm.

    overtime
  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    Mark- I don't have the 60-0 times handy but the Porsche Cayenne Turbo's 70-0 is 170 ft which beats the XT by 14 ft. So while I'm sure the X-3 stops faster, it doesn't stop that much faster.

    On the tire issue, all Jack was doing was trying to point out that to do an apples to apples skid pad comparison you'd have to do a plus-one on the XT so that both vehicles have 17” wheels. The 16" wheels on the XT are a good compromise size for everyday ride comfort, light off-roading, inclement weather driving and dry road handling. However, those who really care about another 5 hundredths of a G can easily upgrade to 17"ers.

    And I'll have mine well done at the Christies Steak Haus

    kdshapiro- OH MY GOSH!!! There's a reason why the good steak joints make you acknowledge that they can't be held responsible for the taste of a well done steak. You sure you don't really own a Santa Fe? ;-)

    -Frank P.
  • mark_lpmark_lp Posts: 28
    Frank,

    Motor Trend rates the forester XS (same brake system) at 60-0 134 feet. Cay. T is rated at 112 for 60-0. I guess its not really safe to trust the exact numbers from any of them. The bottom line is that the X3 is out stopping any Subaru by almost 2 car lenghts at that speed.
    My point on the tires is that, if you continually upgrade the Subaru, the cost differential is rapidly disappearing.
    Add 1500 for new rims and tires, add money for a loaner car while the XT is in service, add maintenance that BMW gives you, add better sway bars, add better traction control, add a more intelligent full-time AWD system, add better shocks and springs, add a better air control system, add your micro air filters, add better headlights, add a roof rack system to add more storage space, add the time and energy it takes to add all those things and your better off driving the X3 off the BMW dealers lot. not even to mention, the X3 drives better.
    That's how I see it. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    911 GT3? No way, gimme the plain turbo with AWD. ;-)

    Viscous coupling AWD, by the way, just like Subaru.

    Subies sales are definitely regional, 7% market share in Vermont, 0.5% in Florida. Colorado, Alaska, Montana, and the whole NE are Subaru country.

    I'd love to see these compared directly, braking, handling, the works. C&D compard them, at least indirectly, and still chose the XT.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Subaru dealers offer free loaner cars, I've already mentioned my last loaner was a Benz. We asked for and got a minivan the time before that. No problemo.

    How is BMW's AWD more intelligent, exactly? Remember, it's the Subie that is truly full-time, power to both axles all the time. The BMW is part-time reactive.

    Subaru also has the air filters you brag about, in fact even my 1998 model has that. Oops!

    Forester's cross bars come standard, and anything Yakima makes bolts on. If anything, Subaru has the advantage there. And it'll hold 150 lbs on the roof, how much will the Bimmer hold? 150 lbs is more than most.

    X3 may handle better on smooth roads, but C&D said the ride was punishing. You're trading off something for that, it doesn't come free.

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    Mark- It all depends on what your priorities are. My XT already has a cabin air filter and I don't see a need for better traction control, shock, springs, headlights or a roof rack system. My dealer also gives free loaners and I don't expect to pay more than a few hundred dollars on maintenance. Also, I'll put the XT's AWD system up against the X-3's any day. So for me at least the cost differential is huge when I can get 95% of the capability for 50% of the price. Of course those are just my preferences and to each his own :-)

    -Frank P.
  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    Just wanted to verify that we’re comparing the XT to the 3.0i X-3 and the AWD FX35. After all, the 2.5i and the RWD FX are just poseurs and definitely aren’t in the same class :(o)

    -Frank P.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "How is BMW's AWD more intelligent, exactly? Remember, it's the Subie that is truly full-time, power to both axles all the time. The BMW is part-time reactive."

    No the BMW xdrive is infinitly variable full time. In addition only two wheels (any two) may be active at one time.
  • zmanzman Posts: 200
    73 new messages since I left for work this morning (I'm not sure I should count all the steak ones in the total though, but the technical comparisons were interesting, albeit a bit uneven). At this rate, the entire internet should be overloaded by March 15.

    Dave M., I'm leaning towards the OBXT (assuming they make one with a MT). The S4 is sweet; and I've actually driven one. Yes the dogs would ride in style, but there's no room for a TV!

    Zman
  • mark_lpmark_lp Posts: 28
    Unfortunately, my local Subaru dealer does not give loaner cars. Just like the local BMW dealers dont move much off sticker.
    BMW system is a full time AWD, not part-time reactive. It is biased roughly 60%rear 40%front under normal conditions. Power to both axles. The X3 controls the percentage based on road condition, gear, current engine torque, steering wheel angle, and yaw rate. These are items the XT is not monitoring. The X3 can also fully lock or disengage the axles from each other. The AWD combines with the Traction control systems to individually brake wheels as necessary. It also has the ability to measure when a trailer you are towing is out of control and breaks the car to correct that.
    As far as air filter, the BMW uses a micro air filter and detects when the polluntants are too high and turns on the recirculation automatically. this means you never smell bad industrial odors in the manufacturing area of town. It also turns off the recirc. when the outside air is clean enough. If you have allergies that is a great bonus.
    The X3 has larger interior storage by almost 15%, roof load capacity is 165 lbs and it can tow 3500 lbs. The XT is only a class one rated towing capacity. I think thats 2000 lbs.
    The X3 ride is great. Most pre-production cars that went out had the sport package on them. That is a firmer ride and something I would not choose on this vehicle.
  • dcm61dcm61 Posts: 1,432
    Got the lean toward the OB XT, but you didn't side for the $200 or $10 steak dinner. How about the $89 or $5000 cruise (or the free ballistic style one)?

    DaveM
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,653
    BMW system is a full time AWD, not part-time reactive. It is biased roughly 60%rear 40%front under normal conditions. Power to both axles

    Not for MY '04. It's been changed to 100% RWD, and shifts power forward as needed.

    Bob
  • zmanzman Posts: 200
    $10.

    And I could see a Subie Crew cruise.

    Zman
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Not for MY '04. It's been changed to 100% RWD, and shifts power forward as needed"

    It only goes into RWD mode about 112. Other times the system performs as Mark detailed above. However, the system is infinitly variable as far as power to the axles and to the wheels.

    Like the FX it starts out a 0mph as a split between the front and rear axles and then works as described above. In addition, the system if slip is detected the xdrive will attempt to handle it, and if it can't fall-back to the DSC.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,653
    what the BMW dealer told me. He said 100% RWD, and shifts power forward as needed. He said the the system had been changed for '04. On '03 X5s, it was 60/40 front to rear, but not any more.

    Bob
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    my comments are based on that and info on the website.
  • mark_lpmark_lp Posts: 28
    The AWD system used before 04 was locked in how power was distributed. In 04, the x3 and x5 went to the Xdrive system. I don't know how to post the website, but Autoweek Dec 8 2003 interview with X3 product manager details how the system works. It is NOT 100% rwd. Your dealer is not accurate.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,653
    that with the revised X-Drive, there is never any time in which all 4-wheels receive at least some power? That there is never a driving situation in which the car ever be 100% RWD, or 100% FWD?

    Bob
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "That there is never a driving situation in which the car ever be 100% RWD, or 100% FWD?"

    If the two rear wheels have no traction, it will be 100% FWD. At speeds above 112 (where they got this number I dunno), it's 100% RWD.
This discussion has been closed.