Lincoln Mark LT

scootertrash2

Host: You are the person who first mentioned the Mark VII, the Mark VIII and the Continental in post 88.

KCRam

Yes, in context with the truck. Renaming the LS is off-topic here.

kcram - Pickups Host

scootertrash2

Just to be clear, you can bring up the Mark VII, the Mark VIII, the LSC and the Continental but we can't question the poor names Lincoln puts on it's vehicles if we mention the LS?

scottphillip

I would buy one if it wasn't much more expensive than the Ford. I assume that it has the 4year/50,000 mile warranty. I haven't seen one on the road yet, and not many people seem to be bidding on the new or used ones on eBay.

I am watching the pricing on the used ones. I'll bet the Ford holds its value better. :confuse:

scootertrash2

Dear Bill-
I'd like to buy one of these fancy trucks. I am the exact person you are targeting demographically.

But first there are a few issues we need to talk about. I'm a pretty well adjusted guy but I can't see myself buying a vehicle named Mark. Mark might be a fine name but it's a really lame name for a truck. Was Bruce or Rex taken? Everyone knows what a Navigator is. There would have been some nice synergy extending the line.

The headlights. From looking on eBay it's apparent that every person in China can make aftermarket projector headlights and those goofy taillights. Why couldn't you whip up a set for this vehicle? The headlights make it look like exactly what it is: An F-150 with a fancy grille from Pep Boys.
Take a look at a GMC Denali. Even lost GM was able to make a different looking set of headlights that fit in the Sierra truck front end.
We all know they are the same, can't you at least make them look a bit different?

Colors: Look at your color pallete. Could a team of scientists have developed a more bland selection? Not even white?!? Was that too bright too? The colors are so drab, they may actually remove the color from surrounding vehicles. Kind of like a black hole.
The interior colors are fine--For an old woman's Lexus.
People who might actually use this truck do not want such light colors that would show dirt so badly that the truck could never be used for camping or driving to construction sites..
Please get back to me when you put in some projector or HID headlights and you have a White pearl one with Charcoal interior. I'll scrape the Mark name off myself and stick on some Navigator badges.

Your friend,
Scootertrash

nvbanker

I have seen a couple in service, but my dealer tells me they're not selling well.

The price starts @ < $40,000. The Escalanche starts at > $55,000. I thought the pricing was pretty favorable, myself.....

KCRam

Last time, scooter...

The truck is named Mark. I replied to questioning the use of the name Mark on the truck. I did not bring up any other models besides the past Marks. If you want to discuss Lincon's cars, head for the Sedans Board.

Move on, please.

kcram - Pickups Host

scootertrash2

You have made more posts on this subject than were made as we veered wildly off topic daring to mention a few other Lincoln products.

Back to the lively discussion of the exciting Mark...

chuck1959

Actually I was a bit surprised they named the truck Mark LT. Since Lincoln never has made a pick up before I don't really know what would be a proper name. Perhaps they could have done like Cadillac did with the various Escalades...ESV, EXT. Maybe Navigator LT or Super Crew? Who knows really. The fact remains is what difference does it really make anyhow.? The truck as it is will not make it anyway, I see it being discontimued in a year or so. I don't think Lincoln can convince "Lincoln" buyers into buying a Lincoln truck. Besides I think Cadillac has already dominated the luxury truck market. Lincoln waited to long in my opioin.

ANT14

The reason the name was differentiated over the Navigator was mainly for sales reasons. Caddilac just used the EXT, but when the totals are in, it falls within the Escalade numbers. Same as Toyota does with the Camry-Solara, and Corolla-Matrix, to boost the numbers of the vehicle it based on.

Lincoln wanted a different name to avoid that, and bring awareness to there being another vehicle overall.

frames77

They did have a pickup before the Mark LT is was called the Blackwood and they sold about six or seven of those in the early portion of the decade. They looked and drived exactly the same as the last generation F-150 and were on the market for about 2 years. The Mark LT is a complete joke though, Ford was lazy in engineering this car. If you look at the tail lights that are not part of the pickup hatch you can clearly see that it has identical head lights to the current F-150. I can't belive how stupid Ford must have been to think that this car might turn out a high profet. This car will probably be axed pretty soon.

ANT14

The Blackwoods failure was mainly it's lack of options, lack of 4x4, rear bed was useless, and only one available color.

The Mark LT solves all those issues, and if every unit sold posts a profit, then I don't see how that would be a stupid decision by Ford.

So far 3K units have sold since introduction, and already the cost of "diffrentiating it" over the F150 have been well paid for.

chuck1959

I stand corrected, I forgot all about the Blackwood. I'm sure Ford would like to also! I thought the Blackwood was based on the Explorer Sport Trac? No matter both trucks are a joke.

chuck1959

Yes your right, that makes sense to me. Thanks.

nvbanker

But I do like the truck. I may buy one.

scootertrash2

I'm with you, I would like to be able to bring myself to buy one, I can get past the goofy name, and can find some Chinese headlights on eBay to complete the job Ford started and didn't complete, but the prissy interior colors and drab exterior colors make that difficult.

briancam

It's true - "Mark" makes much more sense when it's followed by a number; Mark III or Mark VIII. Still my main concern about the truck would be "what am i getting that i can't get w/ an F-150?"

At least the Blackwood had the cool bed that made the truck unique and special (if not useful).

dill

I actually think Ford will have enough success to keep this truck alive unlike that of the Blackwoods history. That being said, I do not think this truck will be coming anywhere near its market potential in sales.

(1) The truck is a clone of an F-150 - that is a huge mistake. There is no real differentiation between the Mark LT and the F series, same nearly identicle body, exactly the same engine and transmission offerings and underpinnings. Their expectations are only 1,000 units a month. I can understand such low numbers, they have sold over a million F series a year, so they don't need a big number in the sales dept. to make money on the LT. Unfortunately, Ford is hurting themselves in the sales department. The problem is throughout the entire life cycle of this vehicle. Many of those who would consider a vehicle like this for will not buy it because there are no real reasons that differentiate this vehicle from any other Ford truck offering. Also the present Ford F-series body style is I believe 2 model years old in the F-series truck. It is now 1 year old in the Mark LT. Ford will not keep this current F-series body style for too much longer 3-5 years max and 5 years is a very very long time. The reason why they will get rid of it is because competition is so fierce in the big truck world that for Ford to not change things up, they would be giving marketshare to other truck makers. Now, Ford will have to change the body and if its getting long in the tooth for the F-series, What do you think is going to be the case for the flagship Lincoln lineup? They aren't going to keep this body style for the Lincoln lineup. They will have to get rid of it. Hopefully, Ford will have enough common sense to differentiate the vehicle so potential buyers can justify the added expense of the Mark LT over the F-series. They need a high output engine with serious hp and torque, plus they need serious goodies in the cab to attract people to it. Ford has no Onstar equivalent, nor do they offer Sirius satellite radio in the Mark LT. What's up with that? I can get a Cobalt with that stuff that is more than 1/2 the price of the Mark LT.

(2) Cadillac has Onstar and XM as well as a 6.0 litre V8 that is standard equipment. The truck has a tree stump pulling 345hp. available to the driver all at the push of the gas pedal. It also has unique interior and exterior stylings and goodies that others in the GM line up don't offer.

(3) GM sells more than the projected 12,000 vehicles of the Mark LT Ford expects to sell. GM in fact sells more full sized trucks than Ford if you look at the numbers and not the Brand associated with it. In other words GMC + Chevy = More sales than the Ford brand name alone. GM sold in 2004 roughly 80,000 more units than Ford did in combined brand named sales. Basic badge engineering hurts the image of a car company in this day and age. Badge engineering is ok, provided you have some differences in your offerings like GM is doing but to have the same vehicle with the same engines, transmissions, suspensions, and options is watering down the brand and not bolstering the barand and making the parent company (FORD) look good in the eyes of the potential customer base.

ANT14

The F-series is far away from being long in the tooth... Look at the competition. The GM trucks are hitting there 7+ mark already. The beloved Tundra is hitting the high 5 year mark as well. Dodge is up there as well. The truck segment usually remodels every 6-8 year as industry average, although things have definately changed. The F-150 will have a usual "car" remodeling of 4 years from now on. The next F-150 due out in 2007, as a 2008 is a clear example. At that time, GM might debut something, as will Tundra. Let's see if Dodge or Nissan do the same around that time.

The Mark LT can pull off with minimal differential because it's interior, quality of materials, and interior quietness befit that of a luxury truck. Unlike GM, who needs to throw in extra wood to distract from the obviously drab and plasticky interior. So in other words, even the regular F-150 Lariat interior, befits a luxury truck. So why differentiate too much.

Next generation of the T-1 platform will allow for different interiors (as seen on the Navi-Expy twins) provided the sales substantiate the difference in investments. Since Ford tested the market with the initial Navigator, throughout the years the vehicle has been styled and treated differently, because Ford later learned there was a market for the vehicle.

SO in the case of the Mark LT, the same will occur. You test the market first, if it there's enough sales to justify, then next generation will be differentiated over it's cloned stablemate.

dill

ANT14,

In short most of what I was stating above is styling and functionality are key when you buy a vehicle. If you have less expensive vehicles that are clones of the more expensive vehicles in your stable than what is the need to by the pricey vehicles when they are the same as the cheap models? Even if Ford had a better product which I don't agree with at all. Why doesn't Ford spend some money on R&D and actually give a reason for potential buyers to spend more for the Lincoln? Same engine, transmission, frame, body style, and interior componants yet the public spends more money for an expensive F-series clone.

I also stated above that if Lincoln is going to be using the Ford F-series body but for a year less, than Ford is, It might be a wise idea for Lincoln to start early on looking at potential replacements for its truck body and various componants
because Ford and GM have acknowledged that they both have intentions on shortening their truck life cycles to compete with the ever faster growing full sized truck market. Lincoln might take a cue from Cadillac and make their $10-$15,000 premium for their vehicles justify the cost by changing things up. Why not have different body, why not have an avalanche sort of adjustable bed, something that makes sense not something completely worthless like that of the Blackwood's truck bed. Why not have a hybrid? Displacement on Demand like GM has in the next year or so? Why not a Hybrid? Lexus has one, next year Chevy will have a hybrid with the Silverado available as an option. Why doesn't Ford have a system like Onstar? Onstar is great for the bottom line because you need to have a subscription of a couple hundred dollars a year in order for that to function. XM is also a nice touch because its about one hundred fifty dollars a year to have the subscription to that. These items are money in the coffers of GM and its extremely inexpensive to have them available to the public. GM is the primary recipiant of XM subscribers money. Thanks to Hughes Electronics, oh, you can also thank Hughes for developing XM with Delphi Corp. Oh, that reminds me you can thank Hughes/GM for starting the whole satellite television boom to. So why is it that Ford is so far behind the times with technology? They haven't developed one item I canm think of that is available across their entire product line that requires a subscription. Onstar is currently available on 51 GM models. XM, you can get that on most GM models and the ones you can't you can get the aftermarket devices that even if you were going to activate the device GM gets a percentage of the subscription service. Sirius partly owned by Ford, has been out on the market about 4 months less than XM and yet they don't make Sirius available on many cars and trucks at all. Just a little observation I thought I would through out there.

briancam

Much of what dill has said is right-on with regard to the Escaldes and GM's successful platform sharing.

Both the F-150 and Silverado/Tahoe are good foundations on which to build a luxury truck. However, the GM brands offer a more unique product than the Mark LT. When I see an Escalade I don't instantly think "that's just a Tahoe with Cadillac badges."

It's still platform sharing in GM's case but the Mark LT is downright re-badging on par with GM's lame Monte Carlo/Cutlass/Regal/Grand Prix offerings of the late 70s and early 80s. At least give the option of a bigger engine or special "Mark LT only" features. The Mark LT's interior is nice but it's no better than an F-150 Lariat or King Ranch.

Also, on a luxury truck, I'm going to need a navigation system and satellite radio - at a minimum. It's gonna cost more, but I'm willing to pay it - at least I should have the choice.

ANT14

"Why doesn't Ford spend some money on R&D and actually give a reason for potential buyers to spend more for the Lincoln?"

I agree, but as I stated.... "SO in the case of the Mark LT, the same will occur. You test the market first, if it there's enough sales to justify, then next generation will be differentiated over it's cloned stablemate. "

There's more focus on investment in the replacement to the LS and Town Car taking place, as well as the Aviator and next generation Navi....So a need to design a totally different "luxury truck" is kept to a minimum. This while the company is restructuring, Lincoln just didn't receive much attention. But considering what Lincoln/Mercury showroom had about 7 years ago, there's many more nameplates to shop from. For the future, when the Aviator, LS and TC replacements take off, then Lincoln only vehicles can be engineered.

dill

Ford in general has already done the market research. the Escalade and the Navigator are variants on the general SUV theme. The Avalanche is a variant on it and the Blackwood although the most flaud truck in American pick up truck history is another variant on the same general theme. Even the Explorer Sport Trac, a truck I can't figure out at all is a variant on that general theme also. You can have all the market research you could possibly collect and it will all show that there is a market for a high end truck, be it an SUV or a pick up there is room for both in the marketplace. It is of vital necessity that you differentiate the daily driver work truck in its look, feel, driving experience and materials used from the high end truck that you are going to be selling for a premium. Even to be raving about the materials used in the F-150 Lariat and the King Ranch is fine for Ford F-Series but you need it even better than that. You want the vehicle to stand apart from EVERYTHING ELSE - IT IS YOUR FLAGSHIP TRUCK TREAT IT THAT WAY! - People are paying a hefty premium for the Lincoln badging, give them value to where the customer knows he is getting the very best vehicle Lincoln has produced. Lexus owners know they have paid a premium but they also know they have stand alone materials and workmanship that have gone into their vehicles, why can't Ford convey that same message with their top of the line truck. I don't want or expect to buy a Ford to have the same quality and workmanship in the Lincoln Mark LT, I expect and want better and I feel I'm entitled to better because I have paid a hefty premium for better materials, workmanship, and quality throughout the entire vehicle.

This is one area I would like to see GM improve things. When you look at a $65,000 Escalade its the same general dashboard as what GM uses in the Suburban and their pick-ups. This is frustrating because a dashboard that belongs in a $20,000 truck shouldn't be anywhere near an Escalade. I have to say that although its fit and finish are perfectly good, I would be paying a premium for that vehicle and I should be getting something that fits the image of a $65,000 vehicle I've paid good money for. At least with the Escalade I get other things that differentiate it from its siblings, it would be nice to see them change the interior though because I will be seeing the interior of the truck more than any other part of the vehicle, not too mention how many hours I'll be spending in the cabin of the truck. I should have something that differentiates it from everything else out there. It just makes sense. Economic sense too, because people will have an easier time justifying the high price for the vehicle if its truely different from the other offerings out there.

ocjoeybbb

Well I bought one. Why?

It is a Lincoln. Quite, nice, great dealership, that oh my goodness great new car smell that is not a Ford. And that ride in not the F150.

I live in Orange County California and I&#146;m asked what is that? In the car capital of the world, nobody has one.

In is in black, it great looking. I took it to a great French restaurant in Laguna Beach and the Valet said, (after parking Mercedes, Porsche and Jags all night) now I get something with a kick!

I added a tonneau cover with an electric lift that works off the key fob. I get great looks when getting out the gym bag or putting it away from the soccer moms.

I paid $3,500 back of invoice, under $35,000. Now that is around $20 large off the EXT.

Get a clue. They only want to make 12K copies a year. That&#146;s 911 territory. Get something special…and inexpensive.

nvbanker

They are a great value - what you say makes a lot of sense. I've started to see quite a few of them around.

viperrt10a

I know its a rebadged F-150 but at $37,100 for a loaded 4X4 with rear sensing, adj pedals, power rear window, power sunroof, running boards, towing pkg (7200GWR), bedliner, chrome bug guard, bed extender, bed liner, skid plates, 3.73 limited slip rear end, and a couple other things. Sticker was over $47k. Could have bought a loaded FX 4 for $36k, I went ahead and got a Lincoln at an F-150 price!!! :shades:

scootertrash

That's why it makes sense. Congrats. It sounds like a good value.

(Now, if they could just do something about that name...)

nvbanker

Yes - the name is a problem...

rjlaero

Was there a 2005 Mark LT, or were they all released as an early 2006 models?

scootertrash

Wow--a post on this discussion!!!

They are all 2006 models.

rjlaero

Are they doing employee pricing on the 06 Mark LT's?

Paying $3500 back of invoice seems pretty agressive on a brand new 2006 model Lincoln.

kasprzak

I have noticed everything that has been said, one thing I haven't seen brought up is the longer warrranty with a lincoln. The materials being the same and expensive aftermarket warranty's as they are an extra year and 14K more miles is worth the rebadging. To all the Gm people out there complaining it isn't enough of a variant, we have 5 GM minivans on ten year old platforms, you have 4 trailblazers with different badging. You have the same truck with two different names and no different options, just different packages, you have billions and billions of dollars of losses, and probably will have substantial layoffs and further cut backs just to survive. Ford isn't any better as my last three auto purchases have been toyota products, but with a 48 month residual value at 48% that is a pretty decent value when you consider that this truck is already being discounted a hefty $10,000. I am going to purchase one tomorrow, and you know I don't care if it is rebadged, because everyone who doesn't own an f150 won't know that, and I prefer 12,000 units a year because I can guarantee that 5 people on my block will not have one identical down the street. Thanks

kasprzak

For all those who work graveyards, please excuse my spelling and puntuaction. The later it gets the worse I get.

nvbanker

Well - how is it?

crculver

can you give some advise on a locking Tonneau Cover for the LT. Would like to keep the chrome side rails is possible.

thanks,

chas

nvbanker

Hmmm, that was a problem I hadn't thought of...

scootertrash

How would a tonneau cover fit over the rails?

nvbanker

Well, it will either have to cover them, or more preferably, fit inside them. Either way, it would have to be custom for that truck

crculver

Here's an interesting tonneau cover option for the Lincoln allowing for chrome rails stay.

Still looking for the best cover solution if anyone has a source they like..Thanks.

scootertrash

Today the OCC "Mark LT " chopper was on display at my local LM dealer.

There were two people there looking at it.

Obviously there were several Mark LT trucks on display there too.

I must restate my earlier comments- While the name is still lame, I can see two easily correctable weaknesses that prevent me from buying.

Needs Different headlights. This would be so easy. One of the trucks had a "custom" billet grille- Sadly, it looked precisely like what is is- an F-150 with a different grille. Take off the grille and you have a $48k F150. How hard would it be to mold a slightly different set of lights?

The other issue, is the absurdly light colored interiors. Many of the trucks has 5-20 miles on them- They already showed dirt on the nearly white seats.
This is a truck. A Prissy truck, but still a truck. Offer it with a charcoal interior and it can be used as a truck.
While you're at it, how about some non-drab colors? Even plain old white would be welcome, pearl would be downright nice.

nvbanker

I was over at the dealership tonight scoping out a new Mountaineer, and thought I'd check out what was different on the 06 Town Car. I noticed only one thing. A Tachometer. I have to ask - what possible practical use could anybody have in a Town Car, for a tach???? And why spend the nickel to put it in there? Of all the things the Town Car needs in the interior - the Tach was not even on the list.

Scooter - does the Mark LT have a Tach in it? Of COURSE it does, right?

ANT14

It's one of those things that it doesn't hurt, nor cost to add that. The electronic aspect of it would make it financially feasable to provide it, rather than not, since it would require a different module as would be used by other vehicles.

In other words, it's much easier having a pair of shoe laces made on one size, that will fit all running shoes, rather than provide different lengths, for different type of running shoes.

The CV/GM also received some styling updates inside and out. I think it needs much MORE, but that's a whole other topic.

I was pushing for the 3V 4.6 V8, but....not this year, urrrr....

And to tie in this whole conversation so I'm not posting off topic...

The TC, just like the MarkLT, are cash cows with minimal invested, or already amortized investment

nvbanker

Thanks Ant- I'm not surprized to hear that answer. I wish I could get into the focus group on what the Town Car needs inside. That engine would have been a huge improvement.

nvbanker

Having followed a Blackwood today - I still prefer that name (pretty classy name, IMO) to the MARK LT. I know it had a tarnished rep, and they may have had to do some styling cues to make it relevant, but it just offends the heck out of me to see the Mark name on a truck. But then again, we've beat that horse to death haven't we? I can't find anybody who likes the Mark LT name - here or anywhere, and yet, some focus group must have chosen it. I'd LOVE to fire the agency that put that together..... I'm surprised Bill signed off on it. You'd think he would have some instincts that would prevent such a thing.

chuck1959

Maybe everyone that buys one should send FoMoCo the nameplate off the truck! LOL. I was thinking why not name it Blackwood LT? I don't think the Blackwood was around long enough for anyone to remember it. I ask a lot of my friends or even people on the streets have they every heard of a Lincoln Blackwood. I must have asked about 75 people a only a handful knew what it was. 3 months ago I wrote Ford a letter asking how they had came up with that name. Still no answer.

nvbanker

The original Blackwood was a concept truck. I saw two of them. The bed was actually covered with Wengewood, which is from Africa, and is a very dark, almost black wood. Hence - Blackwood was the name of the truck. When the concept was slated to be built, the wood trim was replicated and actual wood wasn't used - wouldn't hold up. But obviously, the name stuck.. I totally agree with you. It was a classy name for a Lincoln. They could use Wengewood on the interior to justify the name if they wanted to, and should have reserved Mark for another outlandish coupe someday.

ANT14

That is correct

scootertrash

I shared my chronic issues with LM and received a reply from two different Lincoln insiders:

I was told despite the universal scorn heaped on it, the "Mark LT" name tested very well in focus groups.
They are introducing some new colors, white and a pearl white. I hope there will be a darker interior color too.
20" Wheels are coming out in a couple of months.
They promised additional upcoming "Product Differentiation" and the website says "Vehicle appearance subject to change"-- I hope that means new headlights

I hope they will stick with this vehicle and work on getting it right rather than doing what Ford has done with the T-Bird, Marauder, and Blackwood where they hatch something and then run away from it while it dies an early death.

nvbanker

"the "Mark LT" name tested very well in focus groups." Well, I ain't buying it. I was in the focus group for naming the upcoming Aviator before it debuted, and Ford was hell bent on naming that thing the NAVIGATOR 4.6. They kept coming back to such nonsense, and everyone in the focus group universally warned them about diluting the Navigator brand (we were all Navigator owners) with a baby sister model. Looking at it now, I can see why they were going that way since it's virtually a smaller clone of the Navigator. But it was clear, this was the direction they wanted to go. So, here comes the Mark LT. I don't know what they said to sell the focus group on how this would be a great name, but they must have done a hellova job on them to make it work. So I am suspect about how positive it tested on an unbiased basis... OR, maybe the alternative names presented were just so much worse than this one??? It might have been the best option if they presented it with names like Edsel LT, or Bowel Movement LT, or L-150. (Actually, that may not have been bad.)

scootertrash

Most of my comments were well received but, it was pretty clear that they have no intention of changing the name.
However, it was interesting that one of the respondants did share that they refer to it internally only as the LT (Lincoln Truck)