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Hybrid Honda Accord

17576788081109

Comments

  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,863
    " Do you want me to start posting links to studies which PROVE that Green House Gas emissions are bad for the environment? "

     

    Man, I hate getting off topic, but the studies don't PROVE anything except that when you program a computer simulation, you get back the answers that you programmed in. I am a computer scientist, and that makes me question the findings, as well as the fact the there have been many previous warming periods in history, well before CO2. Plus there are about 20,000 scientists on the "doesn't prove" side of the fence; it's just that no one ever interviews them.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    "Climate change is happening. Over the past century, global average temperature has risen by about 0.6°C, and mean temperature in Europe has increased by more than 0.9°C. Globally, the 10 warmest years on record all occurred after 1991."

     

    That's not a computer simulation - that's historical fact. Is it accidental, or coincidental, or unrelated to humans?:)
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,863
    "Climate change is happening. Over the past century, global average temperature has risen by about 0.6°C, and mean temperature in Europe has increased by more than 0.9°C. Globally, the 10 warmest years on record all occurred after 1991."

     

    Records which go back ~ 120 years (continuous), or at most ~250. No one is questioning the warming trends; it is the causes that are the question. Again, the earth has had many, many warming and cooling cycles.

     

    Atmospheric scientists are attempting to generate computer models to explain the warming. Herin lies the problem - with the scientific method, one postulates a theory and then conducts experiments. But if you build a computer simulation around a postulated reason, it is extremely easy to get the answer that matches the question.

     

    So hold on to your hats and grab your swim trunks, because the ocean is likely going to rise again. Wonder if they can make the Prius into a dual use car/boat?

     

    There, I at least managed to work the topic of hybrids into this discussion... sort of... well, nevermind...
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    quote stevedebi-"Again, the earth has had many, many warming and cooling cycles."

     

    True, but none of those have occurred with the current levels of GHG being spewed into the air - we are in NEW territory.....:)
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,863
    "True, but none of those have occurred with the current levels of GHG being spewed into the air - we are in NEW territory.....:)"

     

    Again, you are assuming that the two are correlated. I have read of some scientists who think the CHG will help cool the earth due to the formation of clouds, not accounted for in many models.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    quote stevedbi-"Again, you are assuming that the two are correlated. I have read of some scientists who think the CHG will help cool the earth due to the formation of clouds, not accounted for in many models."-end quote

     

    I suppose if that hypothesis were true, the effects would be happening already? I think the fact that the ten hottest years on record have occurred in the last 14 years is a pretty good indicator of what is going on......
  • azhahazhah Posts: 82
    Awesome car!!!

     

    If you are even remotely considering a new sedan of any kind you owe it to yourself to test drive one of these. If you can find one on a dealer's lot that is. I've had mine for a little over a month and still find greater joy in driving it everyday. Even if it wasn't a hybrid I would love it just as much but probably wouldn't be as thrilled with the mileage.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    ...can you guys knock it off? Nobody is convincing anybody else.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,863
    "...can you guys knock it off? Nobody is convincing anybody else."

     

    I presume you are not referring to the "awsome car" post...
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    <Reply withheld to help stop this Point/Counterpoint monkey business... and it was a really great reply, too! :-( >

     

    It IS very hard to find a HAH to drive, if my experience is any indication. I had to visit three different dealerships, and when I finally found a unit on the lot, I had to finagle a test drive--and then I was limited to a few minutes and less than 4 miles. But it's worth the trouble to find one to drive if you are looking at mid-sized near-luxury cars.
  • rlkrlk Posts: 14
    The only true basis they could have for not driving the car further is that the car is not reaching EPA estimates...since this car has an automatic and instant readout of mpg it is quite different from driving a standard car with no instant readout of mpg. Honestly when I drove mine initially I wanted to drive it for atleast 10-15 minutes minimum...there was no way I was going to spend this kind of $$ and not get a good test drive. I'd be a little leary of any dealer who would operate like this.

     

    Did the salesman have any reason for not letting you drive it any further?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    Did the salesman have any reason for not letting you drive it any further?

     

    The Honda dealer we went to was not letting anyone test drive the HAH they had on the lot. You could sit in it. I wanted to drive the only Odyssey EX-L that was on the lot and he said he thought it was already sold. Both vehicles had $3000 "dealer markup" on the window sticker. The salesman indicated there may be a little room for negotiation on the HAH.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Yes, the saleman told me that he had been told by his manager that their lone HAH was NOT to be driven, period. Then we started talking and I think his curiosity got the better of him. It turned out he had never ridden in the HAH either! So he was pretty excited during the test drive too.

     

    I don't think the "car not reaching EPA estimates" had anything to do with it. In fact, I specifically told the salesman that one of the reasons I wanted to drive the car was to assess its fuel economy. And he seemed very interested to find out what it would do also. I did post my test drive notes earlier so I'm not going to rehash all that, but we did achieve 25.0 mpg over what I consider to be pretty tough conditions: stone cold engine (20 F), starting out weaving through a big parking lot, spirited acceleration onto a freeway, total of just under four miles with most of it suburban streets, lots of stop signs and a couple of long lights.
  • falcononefalconone Posts: 1,726
    I am glad I live on the East coast. None of those games are played here. No markups on Odyseys either. It is hard to find a HAH. Haven't even seen any on the road yet!!
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    None of those games are played here.

     

    I believe that. Honda dealers here have them on the lot because it takes longer to find a sucker willing to pay $3000 over MSRP. I Have not bought a new car in CA since 1964. I look and try to make a deal and end up going to Oregon, Washington or Idaho to buy. I just cannot make a decent deal with CA new car dealers.
  • rlkrlk Posts: 14
    How ridiculous that a car dealership would not allow a test drive to a prospective buyer. I agree that I would not purchase a car from a dealer who plays games like this. This would definately not be regarded as professional in my book.

    Atleast the salesman finally gave in but nevertheless I find these statements of people being unable to test drive the HAH absurd. Just my 2 cents.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    these statements of people being unable to test drive the HAH

     

    I think Honda would do well to follow the lead Toyota set with the Prius. They had cars available for test drives. It got people in and interested in the hybrid technology. Honda is being shortsighted in their approach. It sounds like most of the buyers wanted the HAH no matter how it operated and how bad they got gouged. Consequently Toyota outsells Honda on almost every level.
  • azhahazhah Posts: 82
    I think this is something that is in the "hands" of the dealers. Here in Phoenix one dealer and only one as far as I know had the forethought to put a "Not For Sale" sticker on the first Hybrid they got. Thus they can use it for test drives till it drops. As a result they have more preorders then all the other dealers combined. or so I am told. ;)
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Sure. We have evidence of ice age et al but the situation with GHG (due to human influence) cannot be denied. Nature takes its time and course. Ideally, we wouldn&#146;t want it to, after all who is going to suffer? Human share has only accelerated a natural course. Should it be of concern to anybody? Or we should simply not care about it?

    In fact, European market relies heavily on GHG measurements, not so much on the &#147;defined&#148; pollutants. Ideally, you would want to reduce all forms of emissions, GHG or smog forming pollutants.
  • azhahazhah Posts: 82
    And this has WHAT to do with the Accord Hybrid?!?
  • "Climate change is happening. Over the past century, global average temperature has risen by about 0.6°C, and mean temperature in Europe has increased by more than 0.9°C. Globally, the 10 warmest years on record all occurred after 1991."

    .

    Yep, global warming. I agree.

    NOW how does this quote prove that CO2 is a poison to humans? (Like CO, HC, NOx, PM)?

    It does not.

    troy
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    GHG emissions and how HAH can contribute. After all, this isn't a new topic that just got started.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    Yep, global warming. I agree.

    I disagree as does a sizable portion of the scientific community. As far as the HAH goes it will have to get the combined 32 mpg to emit the 6.0 tons of GHG as stated. If it gets lower mileage as some owners report the GHG tonnage goes up proportianatly. At 24 mpg combined the GHG will be 8.0 tons just like the non-hybrid V6 Accord. If you are one that believes all you read about global warming it would be best to go lightly on your HAH throttle or you may cook your town. One reason I don't believe all the global warming propaganda is that we have gone through the coldest driest 10 years on record in So. California. There are weather cycles and I have not seen good solid evidence that we as humans had that much to do with controlling the weather. It is a political tool to create fear in the population.

    In short, scientists think rising levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere are contributing to global warming, as would be expected; but to what extent is difficult to determine at the present time.

    http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/content/climateunce- rtainties.html
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    It's hard to take anyone seriously, just using simulations and the like. What I like is "hard data" and the "hard data" says that 10 of the hottest years on record have occurred in the last 14 years. Is that just a "normal trend?" Only time will tell.

    Something else: there is very little if any "hard data" suggesting that increasing GHG is "GOOD" for the environment/planet.

    So anyone who drives a "clean" higher MPG car can be pretty assured that they are not harming the enviroment by doing that !!! :)
  • azhahazhah Posts: 82
    Look! Let's be real here! You ARE NOT talking about the HAH anymore. It has gone far beyond that and greatly detracts from those who want to talk about the HAH. THAT is what this thread is about and why it is titled so. There are plenty of other threads on this site that are more generic in nature where this debate is better suited.

    "After all, this isn't a new topic that just got started. "

    You are so right! but it's gone on long enough. Please give it a rest or take it elsewhere and let's move back to specific HAH issues.

    Global warming is a very complex issue which generates many points of view and emotions. hijacking the HAH thread is not the way to make either case.

    Please?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    These threads wander, the hosts will tell you there is no way around it - it's the nature of this sort of discussion model....sorry !!
  • EPA & CARB test Results:

    CALIFORNIA (CO,HC,NO,PM - not CO2)
    V6 Accord = 7
    Accord Hybrid=7

    45-STATE SCORE (CO,HC,NO,PM - not CO2)
    V6 Accord = 6
    Accord Hybrid=6

    This means that the Accord V6 & Accord Hybrid are equally clean (equal amounts of human poisons), although the V6 contributes more CO2 to the greenhouse effect.

    troy
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    OK Troy finally found a wording I will agree with !!! Now can we stop arguing about it ??? :) :) :) :)
  • azhahazhah Posts: 82
    Iguess you missed this before or ignored it:

    In another post you show a link to this site:

    http://www.greenercars.com/byclass2.html#MID

    Interesting what they show. They show the hybrid as &#147;Superior&#148; ULEV II and the I4 Accord as &#147;Above average&#148; PZEV, but don&#146;t even list the Accord v6!?!

    On that site..

    Top 5 Greenest Midsize Cars:

    Toyota Prius 53 PZEV
    Accord Hybrid 40 ULEV 2
    Kia Spectra 39 PZEV
    Toyota Camry 38 PZEV
    Accord I4 38 PZEV
    Hyundai Elantra 38 PZEV

    Personally I think it's obvious that the HAH is "greener" and therefore "cleaner" than the standard v6. You know deep down it's true regardless of what you say or read. So EPA says one thing but we know their tests are 30 years old, flawed and don't test the hybrids for their "hybridability" Word? We know that greencars gives the hybrid a much higher rating than it's counterparts. If you don't like it or don't want to believe it fine!

    Additionally:

    http://www.accountingweb.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=100511&d=815-&h=- 817&f=816&dateformat=%25B%20%25e,%20%25Y

    Since the feds have deemed the HAH worthy of the "clean fuel vehicle" tax deduction there must be something there!
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