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Audi S4 vs BMW M3



  • sookssooks Posts: 7
    well ok, i was simply saying what makes a car better becaues it doesnt have a turbo. Or just because it is fast without one it is superior or more efficient or better engineered? Im no way against bmw... i really do love the m3...its a awesome looking car and its engine is undeniably sweet. As far as the cars and the need of more power is irrelevant..your right.. but i was just saying the engine was in no means pushed to its limits.. even at 22 psi, i dont think its at an inch of its life (excluding stock turbos...haha... but that was one of its faults to begin with) but overall it is a dumb argument, they are different cars... s4 is somewhat luxury that has some performance...awd.. 4 doors... m3 is more straight performance... rwd 2 doors
  • m382m382 Posts: 35
    well put sooks and agreed, arguments like these are fueled by magazines like car and driver that plot 2 cars against eachother that for all intents and purposes....aren't even that similar, and by people who don't know which to get and don't do their own homework so they ask here which is better. What...they're German,...and are upper scale and performance oriented?? I don't really think that makes them THAT alike. you need 4 doors or 2?? Do you need AWD or can you move along without it?? There really isn't even the need for a comparison for the two cars since they had different objectives since their creation. I love the S4...I love audi in general, I just happen to NOT need awd or 4 doors, and lucky for me I happen to love the M3,....worked out for me. Now that that's to rest haha...O, and I have nothing against turbos...I have an 04' STi, I just happen to NOT love how they eat gas, and the lag and extra maintenance that tends to come from a forced induction car. Now adays it's gotten a lot better tho....
  • sookssooks Posts: 7
    agreed m382... i would have loved to get an m3... but for a decent one it was too much money, insurance was much higher (amazing how much 4 doors decreases that!! baffles me) and *supposedly* it snows around here... so i went the awd route.. I love it, unreal power with the modifications. So wait... you have an M and an STi.. I like your style. please get me into your line of work. I drove an 05 STi, it was def. a fun car, but the interior was lacking too much for me. If i had an m3 also... then thats different :). I question your comment about eats gas though... im stage 3 and i get 23-27 mpg... im pretty sure your M doesnt get that :) actually the b5 s4 was pretty good on gas, its when they switched to the v8 did it suffer.....badly. But you are definately right on the more maintainance part.... but yes theyre making great improvements.
  • m382m382 Posts: 35
    hi sooks thats awesome, a performance sedan that gets good gas mileage...I certainly don't get that from my STi or M3, I actually have the pleasure of owning a 3ooC SRT-8 which definately doesn't get 23-27 mpg. They all suck on gas lol...the STi is the worst of them all because of the turbo. But that I'm willing to deal with.
  • sookssooks Posts: 7
    ok...litereally hire me into whatever you do for a living.. im willing to relocate :) you got any other cars up your sleeve? what do you do
  • m382m382 Posts: 35
    hehe, I happened to fall into the perfect situation, definately a "right place and right time" scenario. I'm a corporate liason, I do a good amount of PR work and have been fortunate enough to have some of these toys. :shades:
  • None taken.....I am truly on 22PSI...I will take a picture of my boost gauge and put up a link soon....Its probably I clocked a 4.2-4.3 on a G-Tech I just wanted to make a point that S4's are much more upgradable....yes it is possible to get up to 35 PSI, Garret Gt28rs and rebuild with larger compressor upgrade...its pushing way up there....I will post again when I know approx HP... but around 600-750 AWHP with new cams, valve springs, and will be alot of money...I have sponsors, so it shouldn't be that hard...
    What is your PSI on your S4 and what stage III did you get (company)??
    If your not runnning under my (0-60) then go and get your car tuned....
    Check this out not to change the subject but how tuneable turbos are...
    826AWHP 42PSI">
  • sookssooks Posts: 7
    i agree s4's are much more upgradeable... i just find it hard to believe you are pushing that much through stock turbos... they arent that reliable and wont last all that long. also...running 4.2-4.3 is awful quick without a turbo upgrade..what do you have done to it.. the garrett gt28rs is designed for 250-350hp range as ive seen on a couple sites.. im not saying its impossible but need to severely upgrade every internal within the engine. yes, turbos are highly tuneable.. but i personally have never seen an s4 pushing 600 whp... i look on audiworld where there is people all over the world.. and i dont think ive seen one much over 500hp.. as far as mine.. my stage 3 is through mtm.. and was tuned from the sole importer of mtm in the country. Now, ive heard mtm isnt the most aggresive but still is very quick,
  • I have AWE downpipes, UUC exhaust, custom diverter valves, APR stage II ECU 93 oct..stock erased...with my upgrades I added up and its close to 400HP and over 430ft lbs.....
    I have done much research as you probably and I have found for a kit from AWE Tuning has the K04 Upgrade Kit for 525HP and 550ft. lbs...w/manifold and all parts $8,400

    Its probably not possible to go over 600 w/o nos...the fastest audi runs a 9.930 1/4 mile with GT28rs' and 150HP shot of nos LINK
  • sookssooks Posts: 7
    AWE is def known for the most power. id be surprised if your at 400...but im sure if its well tuned its definately fast. well, congrats with the sure you love it as much as i love mine.. keep in mind with that awe kit, thats fully done and i believe is with intercoolers, all piping and what not and is on race gas and is at the crank...not the wheels. and the price isnt installed unless your doing it yourself.. good luck to ya though. that audi link is a nice looking car
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    "So you can't really compare the S4 and M3 right now, they're playing leapfrog like Ford and Chevy does with its trucks and M3 is just about to leap over S4."

    You're right about that, but Audi always has a backup plan. The new RS4 will be as competitive as the new M3 in all areas, and even supplies 100hp per litre. It is quick, fast, sophisticated, stylish, and very performance-oriented.

    Also, when the new S4 comes out in 3 years (or 2 years after the new M3), it will again leap over the M3, most likely having the current RS4's engine.

  • salrafsalraf Posts: 17
    anyone have any idea on the resdual and money factor for an s4?

    also is there a substantial difference between 2005.5 and 2006?

    deals are more plentiful for the 2005
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Hi - see the exchange at this link: dal2, "Audi S4: Prices Paid & Buying Experiences" #43, 11 Feb 2006 9:24 pm. That's probably the best place for further questions on an S4 lease. Good luck.
  • m3_r1m3_r1 Posts: 32
    The day the S4 leaps over the M3 is the day the sun fails to rise. Resale value, relibility, and performance say's the the S4 continues to play catch up. When the S4 can hold it's resale value against the M3 perhaps then a reasonable debate can be put forth, until then it's all talk. However like most S4 owners, it's ok to dream. :)
  • In Edmunds top residual high performance cars the S4 is listed but the M3 is not. i have looked at the site of one of the noted watchdogs for reliablity and the bimmers don't do so well in the 3 year strecth. i have heard lots of good things about the S4 but i am really looking forward to the return of the 2007 RS4. Granted the M3 does seem to be the one to beat year after year.
  • m3_r1m3_r1 Posts: 32
    I suggest you look at Kelly Blue Book and compare any year M3 to the S4. Be warned, you might get depressed. It's not even close.
  • tenzotenzo Posts: 24
    Hi. Guys
    I got a 06’ 325i 9K miles on it, and plan to trade in to 03 M3 conv. w SMG and NAV (42800, dealer asking for and pretty much all the available options on it) they are willing to pay 29800 for my 06 325i and here is the detail. Tell me what you guys think about this deal.

    My 06’ 325i
    STEPTRONIC Automatic Transmission $1,275
    Premium Package $2,900
    Cold Weather Package $1,000
    Xenon Adaptive Headlights $800
    All-Weather Floor Mats $78
    Aluminum Pedals $85
  • jackreidjackreid Posts: 2
    I have a 97 328is, and the engine light has been on for four of the nine years. These foreign shops are useless in my opinion and would just bring the car to BMW. Everytime my light has been on,it was due to a bad 02 sensor and I had it replaced. I brought the car to another shop and was charged sixty dollars to diagnose the problem and they didn't know how to fix it. I would just try BMW.
  • rhino01rhino01 Posts: 8
    I am in the process of replacing my 06 Chrysler SRT8. I have looked at many cars in this or similar classes. From all my magazine and online research I have narrowed it down to the BMW M3 and the Audi S4 (the wife didn’t approve the 72K budget for a loaded RS4). The Chrysler was bought sight unseen to replace a 04 Corvette Z51 due to a new requirement for rear seats. I wanted a “4 door Corvette.” After almost a year I have been unhappy with the car for multiple reasons but that is not for this forum.

    I began my test drives with the Lexus IS350 and the Infiniti G35 coupe. I felt that the IS350 just was to biased to the luxury side of the luxury/sport equation and was not available in manual. The G35 just did not have enough oomph. So I went to the Audi dealer to test drive a S4. Incidentally they had 2 of the limited to 250 25quattro editions and said they once had a total of 5. I did not care for the boy racer looks but it was inviting considering it was also discounted. I drove the S4 with the sales person. He was very laid back and let me have fun with the car. I felt that it was a great luxury car with excellent all around performance. It did not have the freight train feel of my SRT8 but it had a great shifter and just felt smooth and composed in anything I made it do. My only 2 gripes were the lack of touch screen for the NAV and the arguably minor loss of straight line performance compared to my SRT8. The rear seats are for kids just for short trips. We have an SUV for the family work so just having usable rear seat is the only requirement for space. The car had a very polished look inside and out. Everything looked well designed and elegant. I would imagine that most non-enthusiast could not tell the difference from it and an A4. Overall, I was very pleased with the car.

    I then drove to the BMW dealer to drive an M3. They had quite a few in inventory. All of the coupes had the competition package. We started our drive and the sales person was taking me on what I felt like was a Sunday drive. I started to drive more spirited when I got the chance but then was scolded by the sales person telling me that I should not be driving the car that way. I felt that he thought that I should buy the car just because it was a BMW and that I did not need to see the potential. With what little I got to experience, I felt that the M3 was the race car of what I drove. It accelerated hard and I could feel it unlike the S4. It felt like a smaller more optioned version of my vette. But I had many complaints. The exterior screamed look at me. I would not want to attract any more attention from the local authorities. The interior was the opposite in my opinion. The supplemental instrumentation felt early 90’s at best (the 06 330 sedan in the showroom did not look that much better). The Alcantara steering wheel looked after market and made my hand sweat. The sales person said it was from the spirited driving. This was doubtful as my right hand was fine and he barely let me do any fun driving. The silver cube trim looked cheap and had a raspy feel. The Nav/stereo seemed archaic compared to what I have seen recently. The fit and finish of the carpeting seemed like an afterthought. The door felt klunky when I opened and closed it.

    So in comparison, I loved the performance of the M3 over the S4 but I felt the S4 was more rewarding overall. The majority of the time I am driving only mildly spirited and prefer the comforts and luxury over track capability. I could see people who base a higher level of performance as stronger criteria to pick the M3. In my younger days I probably would have.

    There was also a $7k price increase for the M3 over the comparably equipped S4. I could not see the justification. So I don’t believe the recurring issue of resale to be as valid. Especially in my case where the Audi dealership was more willing to negotiate price than the BMW dealership. That being said, I don’t believe that resale should be a strong criteria when buying a car. Most cars are pleasures not investments. If I was buying just transportation, I would probably buy a base Corolla. I believe a person should buy whatever car that they will enjoy not what has the best resale. I don’t keep my cars long so I just consider cars an expense for my enjoyment.

    I agree with what many people said: I would buy the M3 for the track but the S4 for everyday. So I am going to order an 07 S4 since none of the in stock S4’s are in the colors I want and they are not building any more 06’s.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Interesting post and I appreciated the well written comparison of the S4 vs. M3. However, I did get a kick out of:

    I believe a person should buy whatever car that they will enjoy not what has the best resale. I don’t keep my cars long so I just consider cars an expense for my enjoyment.

    preceeded by

    ..the wife didn’t approve the 72K budget for a loaded RS4.

    For what it's worth, I've kept my 1995 Nissan Maxima for 12 years and 155k miles (still have it at our second home). When I was thinking of splurging for a Boxster S, my wife kicked me in the pants to get a 911S Cab. Mostly so all of us could fit in it (2 kids), but also on the basis that (1) if we keep it a long time, the extra cost is worth it and/or (2) if we don't, the high 911 resale value will be a benefit.

    I've always thought that resale value should be relatively more important to someone who doesn't keep cars a long time. But I agree, cars are not investments.
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