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Lease Termination Fees and other costs

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  • ddeliseddelise Posts: 339
    So, 3 weeks later and the inspection has still not been performed.

    The initial delay was due to the dealer not faxing in the paperwork.

    The next delay was that after the inspection was scheduled, the car was moved to a different dealership so the inspector did not have access. This occurred on March 23.

    After speaking with CS, I was assured the inspection was reset for Friday the 25th. I waited over a week to call back, and nothing has happened. Because I called, CS is now going to look into what is going on. If I did not call, would this inspection just be waiting for eternity???

    This is now beyond frustrating and I have a feeling this is not going to end well.
  • jonnyrebjonnyreb Posts: 1
    Ok, here is one to figure out!
    Anyone have lease insurance? Through IA Pacific?
    I put in a claim in Dec/2010 but was told to have an extra payment in bank in case investigation took longer than a month. In April, they started paying.
    I asked about Januarys payment that came out of my account and was told to talk to GMAC to get it back.
    GMAC says that because the insurance company is paying my lease monthly (in arrears) that I am not due any money back.
    Now I am stuck between two large corporations that say it is the others responsibility to pay.
    I have no income now and the $325 would help out a lot.
    If you have lease insurance you should find out how it works before it's too late.
  • As briefly as possible, the story is this: I leased a new Subaru Outback 3 years ago, and had every intention of buying the car at the end of the lease because I could not afford to buy at that point. I made a large down payment to keep my monthly payments manageable. I intended to but the car at that point, and purchased extra mileage and the extended maintenance plan. I took the car in for all required service, oil changes, etc., and this was no easy feat- the dealership had many units being sold and ONE Subaru-qualified tech to work on the cars. I was a good customer, always paid my bills on time, always paid the full amount. Over time, I became very disgusted with the poor service at the dealership, and had an opportunity to buy another car, so when the lease was up, I turned it in. I had my suspicions about being ripped off because of the previous reviews about Chase Auto loans & leases, so I had the car professionally detailed, called my insurance co. to get an estimate on the "normal wear & tear", and took many photos of the car. All I received from the dealership was a mileage slip, and was told that they-Chase- would pick it up and take it to auction to sell. This took two months !! NOW they have the nerve to tell me that because THEY didn't sell the car for two months, I owe more personal property tax ! They originally sent me an outraegeous bill for the end of lease disposition fee, excess wear & tear, etc. I called them and flatly refused to pay the excessive amount, and the agent retabulated the numbers, and gave me only the disposition fee, and the tax. I was very suspicious when they kept urging me to pay it over the phone, and I refused, stating that I needed a statement reflecting the exact charges listed and defined. They sent the statement, and I sent them a check. I also sent them a check which was sent to me by the Virginia DMV for my license plate transfer refund that I paid, but the DMV said Chase had to cash it as it was made out to them (which I thought was stupid) and send me the refund. Now, I am receiving letters that I still owe more money, even though I received and paid the previous "final bill". I called them to clear this up, and even spoke to the agent who had sent me the last bill. She then told me that more money had been attributed to my account, and it needed to be paid. I replied that that was unacceptable and became upset. She transferred me to her supervisor- an absolute jerk- who said that if I didn't like it, we could go back to the original amount that they were trying to shaft me with in the first place ! The MATH on the original statement didn't even add up correctly, and this guy is basically trying to get me to pay any other monies he can coerce me into ! He even stated that the DMV refund check would have been destroyed because the clerks at the billing office wouldn't know what to do with it !!? I am so furious with this whole situation- I will NEVER lease a car again, and will never do business with Chase- they are RUINING the Subaru product name, and the people who work for Chase are THIEVES !!
  • lch77lch77 Posts: 53
    had enough,

    Sorry to hear about your unpleasant dealings. I have had pretty good experiences with all of my leases, but I see two major issues:

    1. BEFORE your lease is up and you turn the car in, the finance company will usually send someone to inspect the car. That is the time that they can point out any damage that they consider excessive. Often, they will send you a guide to show you how much damage they will accept at no charge. I think Honda accepts $1,500. Mazda (through Ford) gives you a card with dimensions plus a list of allowable dings. I remember it being something like one half-dollar sized ding per panel. The main point here is you agree to the excess wear and tear and the price before you return the car. The only charge after that could be for extra miles.

    2. If there is a disposition fee, it should be clearly listed in your original lease contract. Don't pay a penny more.

    There can be times that a manufacturer will use an unrealistically high residual value. This would have the effect of reducing the monthly payments in order to "sell" more cars. This doesn't cause any pain until you turn the car in and it isn't worth as much as the residual. If that's what happened, they are just trying to get you to pay a portion of this amount.

    Depending on the trim and mileage, the residual on a Subaru Outback is running around 52%. To learn more about leasing, check the ridewithg site.
  • rx2manrx2man Posts: 14
    Last night I leased a wrangler, I was told my residual would be 14419, seemed fair enough to me. Went to finance and noticed the 14419 was 16919 in the Purchase option section at the bottom. Finance guy did not know why and mentioned again that their new computer system was causing everyone problems still and also that they did not do many leases. So he fix's and it comes back at 14919, I said thats' still not right and he this time writes over the top of the stack in pen and makes the change, all copies reflect the 14419 and I initialled the change. I plan to buy the jeep at the end and the residual was sticking point the entire process so I am glad I caught this butt........from reading the forums this $2500 is something that Ally finacial does. I'm good to go correct, if someone has to eat the $2500 it will not be me correct? The deal is still good? I drove away in it LOL and just now figured all this out.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 30,545
    My guess:

    Ally will kick that contract back.... and, you'll have to sign a new contract or give the car back..

    Dealers can't change residuals on their own...

    Good luck,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • rx2manrx2man Posts: 14
    At this point its used vehicle correct so resign the contract with the 14419 as the correct buy back price, residual would change at that point and be lower?? I mean if its used they cant sell it new anymore so at this point jsut fix it and be done?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 30,545
    edited July 2011
    No.. that isn't what I meant..

    As you noted, Ally charges $2500 more than the residual to buy out their leases... It's been that way for over a year (from anecdotal evidence in these forums)..

    You'll have to sign a contract with what Ally determines is the correct purchase option amount ($2500 more).. Otherwise, you'll have to give the car back.

    I hope I'm wrong..

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited July 2011
    I concur with kyfdx...

    However, I'm convinced it's not a mistake. I believe the sales person knew damn well that Ally has a $2,500 purchase option fee yet made the change just to pacify and entice you to lease the vehicle. If he/she didn't know, that doesn't relieve them of their responsibility to know and understand their financial products. How could so many of us know this, yet, those in the leasing business that do this stuff daily, and for a living, not know??? Doesn't seem credible to me.

    John
    The AutoLeaseGeek
  • rx2manrx2man Posts: 14
    delta, I am surprised that not only my salesperson, the finance guy, the guy crunching the numbers and the GM of the dealership did not know. The finance guy said the did not do a lot of leases and also said they had a new computers system giving people problems, but that could just have been their story. I have never leased before and was trying to see if I got a good deal when I found out about this whole $2500 part. I fail to see how this whole thing benefits the dealership though. I have a contract, if it goes south it seems to be on them.
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited July 2011
    rx2man,

    The "blame it on the computer" is typical. Software vendors generally provide outstanding training and support on new software. As such, that story is real tough to swallow. And so, I think they all new exactly what they were doing. Independent of software and, regardless of the computer software used, they had to know that Ally charges a $2,500 purchase fee. My God, that's common knowledge among all dealers having agency agreements with Ally Bank. So, their computer explanation is pure BS.

    If they hadn't reduced the buyout to a residual buyout, would you still have leased the vehicle? If not, there's your answer. They were able to make a sale because they changed the buyout price to a residual buyout, even though it's bogus.

    As for Ally Bank kicking back the faulty paper work, they'll cross that bridge when they get to it. By that time, the hope is that you will have fallen in love with the vehicle. And, the more time that passes, the easier it will be for them to convince you to keep the vehicle. Don't be surprised if they offer you some sort of split on the $2,500 purchase option fee particularly if they already have enough profit in the deal. So, time is their ally (no pun intended). Frankly, they should eat the $2,500. My dad told me long ago that if you make a mistake in business, you eat your mistake... no exceptions!

    John
    The AutoLeaseGeek
  • rx2manrx2man Posts: 14
    Wow, NO I would not have bought at the higher amount. Its was supposed to be 13800 and the sales person said there was some confusion on their end and the 13800 was for a base, mine was 15800 once we showed up at the dealership. At that point we were walking and they split the diff to 14787 but in the end it was 14419. The 16919 was a no deal.
    They have my trade in as well so if they sell it are'nt they in a bit of a jam, also is this now technically a used car. All I have to do is say original deal or give me my car back and they are somewhat stuck with having to honor it?? Sorry to keep asking questions but trying to get an idea as to how this is going to play out. And thank you delta for taking the time to reply
  • delta737hdelta737h Posts: 603
    edited July 2011
    In your original post, you said...

    "I said thats' still not right and he this time writes over the top of the stack in pen and makes the change, all copies reflect the 14419 and I initialled the change."

    I have no idea what "writes over the top of the stack" means. The bottom line is this...

    Was this penned change written on the lease agreement or was it written on some dealer internal document? If it was some internal document, then Ally will never see the penned change. So, you go merrily along until lease end when, to your surprise, you discover that the buyout is $16,919 and nothing was ever changed. The paper you're holding with the penned change could be meaningless and unenforceable in a court of law.

    I can't believe a dealer would amend a contract by using a pen to cross out a number and, then, inking a different number. If I were the fund provider (Ally), I would send it right back to the dealer. They should know better which leads me to think that they inked the change on some meaningless document.

    If they made the change on the lease contract, then, in all probabilty, they'll have to eat the $2,500. I don't know how much trade credit they gave you, if any, but they may have enough profit in the deal to eat the entire $2,500. DO NOT let them negotiate the $2,500 by agreeing to some split. That's out of the question and, as far as I'm concerned, it's non-negotiable as it's a done deal. If they made a mistake, it's on them.

    I don't blame people for being stupid, but I do ask them to pay for their stupidity (mistakes). I'm not about to be victimized because of their stupidity.

    John
    The AutoLeaseGeek
  • rx2manrx2man Posts: 14
    I have no idea what "writes over the top of the stack" means. The bottom line is this

    sorry yes the lease contract, about 4-5 pages, you write on the top one it goes through all copies. they made a change on the contract. It sounds crazy but thats what happened. I have no idea if they made much on the trade. A 08 Sonata base 4 cyl auto in good shape no issue with 81k. So a lot of miles. We owed $7700 on it paperwork shows $9150 trade in which is high KBB trade in. But $9150 is just a number if the cost of the vehicle is higher as well. So I dont know what their margin is but I really dont think its $2500, they were trying to make this go through. Thanks again for your time.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    Keep in mind, you said:

    "Last night I leased a wrangler, I was told my residual would be 14419, seemed fair enough to me. Went to finance and noticed the 14419 was 16919 in the Purchase option section at the bottom."

    So your lease payment is correctly based on the residual you think is fair. The only problem is that the lease bank charges this silly-high buyout fee on top of the residual. Check your lease contract and see what the turn in fee is, it could be a rip of as well. The bank will not fund the lease if the numbers are not correct and the dealer can't change the residual or buy out fee or price. So unless they didn't change the copy they sent to the bank it is coming back. At hat point you should just unwind the deal - if you plan on buying the vehicle at lease end - and leasing from another bank or dealership. You can also check online at leasecompare.com to see what rates / payments they have.

    Most every dealer will make you sign a form that says if the financing does not go through you have to bring it back. This lets them do business nights and weekends when they can't get approval for every deal before handing over he keys. Some have a per day and / or per mile charge on this form. If you signed one of these, then you have to pay them to take back the car -the amount based on days and miles you kept it,

    Lease then purchase CAN make sense and I have done it before myself, but only when I had a super low factory backed lease rate. This lease deal is probably not at a promo rate so probably does not make any sense to lease then buy if you want to own the vehicle just get a loan and buy it now. You can run the numbers and see how much money you are tossing away on the lease / purchase but I would guess it is a large amount.
  • rx2manrx2man Posts: 14
    I ran the numbers both ways and its a wash in the end within a few hundred IF I did the numbers right and I think I did. IT got me a payment my wife is happy with now so thats what counts at this time. I talked with a dealer on a jeep forum, he does not think it was intentional and they have a new computer system at dealers that is causing problems. I dont know why they say they were not familiar with the Ally leasing program. The other dealer said it should all work out in the end and to just wait for them to contact me.
  • rx2manrx2man Posts: 14
    For anyone who is curous as to how this turned out. The dealer called last Tues, the GM said all their Ally leases were messed up and I would have new paperwork to sign. Today I got the new paperwork. This time with Bank of America. Same numbers as before and BOA does not have $2500 buy out at the end. So I am happy it all worked out.
  • pwong8pwong8 Posts: 3
    I am halfway through my lease right now for a 2010 Audi A3 and I need tires pretty soon. Does anybody know if Audi will charge me if I return the car with tires of a different brand? I find the stock tires too noisy and planning to opt for a "quieter" set.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,613
    Look on your contract and see what the requirements are. The only car I ever had to worry about tires on was our Chrysler and the terms merely said the tires had to have at least 4/10" tread depth. No mention of brand.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,914
    edited August 2011
    Agree w/qbrozen on checking the contract, though I can't imagine why they'd be upset at you returning the vehicle with nicer, newer tires on it, as long as they were the right size.

    If it's a problem per the contract, you can always keep the old tires and have them put back on right before the lease ends.

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  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    Only an option if the OEM set has 4/32" or more tread left.

    I would check the lease contract, I am sure there is something about the tread depth and they have to match. If the car has a full size spare all 5 may have to match. The speed and load ratings have to meet or exceed the OEM tires as well. They could limit you to just OEM tires (there could be several) as well. To CPO a car they have to have lots of tread and be OEM tires, so dealers do not like to see turn ins with non-standard tires.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    As long as they match and are the right size and speed rating you should be fine.

    Just make sure they're name brand... get some Chinese no names and you might get hit.
  • lch77lch77 Posts: 53
    Agree with Brentwood, with emphasis placed on the rating. If the car came with "V" rated tires, don't replace them with "H" rated tires.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    Exactly.

    Jaguar would allow one speed rating downgrade, from a Z to a V, but if the car came in with non-performance tires, you'd get charged for a set of OE rubber ($900+)
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,914
    Well yeah... I'm assuming that the vehicle is fairly new to the lessee, and thus would currently have barely-worn tires. I can't imagine bothering to replace the tires for better ride quality near the END of a lease!

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  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    They said "I am halfway through my lease right now for a 2010 Audi A3 and I need tires pretty soon" so I assumed they would be too worn out to turn in.

    Another reason to love Honda Finance lease "Excess Wear and Use Waiver" of $500 per incident up to a total of $1,500. I turned in my 2005 S2000 (before getting the 2008) with 2 low tread tires on it. No charge since they were under the limit.
  • ronnycronnyc Posts: 33
    Hi. I have a CRV lease. BUT, unfortunately, due to the economy, etc., I've been out of work for 2 years. Still looking! I can't afford the car any more. It's a 2009 CRV with less than 6000 miles, so it's totally cherry. What should I do (besides move to Brazil).

    RON
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 30,545
    Do you have a CarMax nearby?

    They'll make you an offer to buy your car, and check with Honda Finance for the payoff amount..

    Most leased cars are worth less than the payoff, but since yours has low miles and CR-Vs hold their value, you may find that they will pay you enough to walk away from it.

    regards,
    kyfdx

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • ronnycronnyc Posts: 33
    THANKS!!! I'll try that.
  • dhyun3dhyun3 Posts: 11
    Anyone has experiences? I will need to return my 3 series in a month and would like to know whether I should take my car to an auto shop to look at it before I meet with an inspector from BMW. I've heard that once they find some issues, the car must be fixed by a licensed BMW shop which tends to be more expensive...
    I also lost one of my car keys - do you guys know how much they will charge?

    Leasing at the beginning and driving until these days are wonderful...but not look forward to paying some fees...
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