Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





First Oil Change

I heard that with a new car it is good to change the oil after just 500-1000 miles because breaking the car in leaves more residue in the oil than normal operation. Is this true? Or is the normal interval between oil changes apply from driving it off the lot.
Also, Toyota told me that their oil filters had something special that went with their cars, so do they have to be used or will any brand work just as good?
«134

Comments

  • swschradswschrad Posts: 2,171
    now it gets murkier :-D

    increasingly, manufacturers are recommending AGAINST any special short-term oil changes or magic oil formulas, generally saying this prevents a complete break-in program. in any event, to insure you can't be punted around on warranty in case of an issue near the end of the warranty period, change it exactly when your manual says to.

    grizzled old farts who have heard enough stories and replaced enough engines laugh until they fall down and wheeze every time somebody repeats this information. they tell you exactly what kind of metal shavings, chips, and foundry sand come out of the strained oil and out of the cut filter on the first oil change, be it at 500 miles or 5000. as their eyebrows arch and their hands cup and swoop, your blood runs cold.

    the truth is in between. there will be extra crud the first few oil changes. the finest particles of this slop do circulate with the oil and contribute to scuffing the piston walls slightly. this is said to be a good thing with the tighter tolerances engines are built to, and provide a ring/cylinder surface that doesn't cake with burned scuzz and cause oil leakage as the engine wears. the car makers say they take this into account... aka, you are the final machinist of the engine, and only if you follow their break-in plan can they honor the engine warranty.

    moral: it's evil, and they like it. I couldn't drive my new cars that long on the first change. on a rebuilt slant-6 in my used then re-engined 64 dodge, I got 100,000 before selling it to my sister, who got another 50,000 before the steering got scary and she sold it. never a drop of oil burned, and I changed oil/filter at 500,1000,2000, and thenceforth at 2500 miles. I got 145,000 before trading my 76 buick that was changed at 500... got 138,000 before trading my 90 ranger that was changed at 1000... and my 00 exploder with only 49,000 miles is still a babe in swaddling clothes, too soon to tell, but I don't use a drop of oil between 3000-mile oil changes. those are the only 4 vehicles I've had in which I had a new-tolerances engine to look at from the get-go.

    play safe, do it by the book.

    as for oil filters... there is a magic ingredient in the Toyota filters that makes them cost twice an equal replacement. it's the Toyota logo. Motorcraft filters have the same magic ingredient that Wix or Baldwin filters don't. I generally stay with the car maker's filters since I've been buying new, and when I don't, go with top replacements like the ones mentioned. buck-fifty oil filters don't get near my wheels. I don't even park on the same side of the mall as the shelf of those things at Questionable Auto Parts.
  • armtdmarmtdm Posts: 2,057
    Only three components of a filter that are an issue, anti drain back valve, every filter has one, some better then others. Bypass valve, not every one has this as some engines have them internaly, really makes not difference and hte third is the pressure PSI that the valve opens at to let cold oil through. You should try to match that.

    Really, other then a Fram most filters will work fine and really, in todays engines, with the oil doing all of the work, a filter is more for catastrophic failure. My own testing shows that it makes no differnece in a used oil analsyis if I change the filter at 6000 miles or 12,000 miles. Cut a few open, nothing really there either
  • i was under the impression toyota don't make car that need break in anymore as it stated in the owner's manual, just don't floor it during first 1000 miles, and they've put special engine oil in the new car help lubricate the engine for the first 3000 miles.
  • what about certain brands of gas or oil? any suggestions?
  • swschradswschrad Posts: 2,171
    practically, any of the majors in your area are using the same refinery stocks and just adding your additive package for gas.

    there ARE differences in the refinery stocks. some have already cut over to newer equipment that cuts sulfur in the gas to essentially none, some haven't yet. if you have a recent car that has a permeable-ceramic catalytic, sulfur can build up in them under light driving, and release in a hot stinky cloud of hydrogen sulfide if you floor it, tow, start driving uphill, or otherwise load the engine more or get the cat hot. there are a lot of yowls about that across the edmunds boards. the carmakers all say use the lowest sulfur gas you can get.

    but who has it is something a little hard to tell. if Spilco is advertising in your area that "our gas already meets the 2005 EPA clean-air requirements... because Spilco thinks this is a special place," then they have a refinery feeding them that is cleaned up. if you live near it, have a cup or two in the nearest cafe, watch out the window, and see whose trucks are filling up at that refinery. you now have your shopping list. It may only be good on, say, the East End of your city, because the far west suburbs may be getting their fuel from the pipeline terminal. but that's something you have to find out locally. I don't think any state websites are posting that data, certainly Minnesota isn't, and a few other I've Googled aren't.

    since all gas sold in the US must meet a minimum Federal standard for fuel detergency in every grade, there should be no issues leading to clogged injectors. if there are a couple cut-rate joints that get their fuel from a recycler (spilled stuff, old crap from closed stations, etc. is rerun through a refining process to theoretically get back to standards), I personally would not buy there.

    oil is another matter, and there are several threads you can search on that have thousands and thousands of posts in which folks have been flaming each other over the relative merits of every known and unknown brand of oil. I'm sticking with the major marketers, getting the correct API code for my engine, and living the good life. so far, the dealer has done mine, and I think they're using QS 5w-20 that meets ford standards, and the OEM motorcraft filters.

    if you want extraterrestial synthetic oil and gold-plated filters delivered by unicorns from the black forest artisans of legend, way cool. naturally, if I've saved you Big Money, please send it to me at ( )...... LOLOL.
  • camrymancamryman Posts: 6
    I have heard that for a new car it is good to change the transmission-fluid at an earlier schedule than the 30,000 miles specified in the Owner's Manual because breaking the car in leaves more residue in the transmission-fluid than normal operation. Is this true? I have asked the Toyota-Dealer this question and depending upon the mechanic you speak to, some recommend 30,000 miles and some recommend 15,000 miles. Any comments on the mileage that we should do that first transmission-fluid change?
  • Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I change my oil and filter every 3k miles
    and will probably continue to do so until I buy a hybrid vehicle !

    In my opinion, I believe in doing the FIRST oil change at about 1k miles.

    That's what I did on my 2003 Solara SLEv6 and I don't regret it.

    Although the engine must've gone thru some testing/running after manufacture,
    it cannot match up to the wear that is imposed during 1,000 miles of travel
    IN the vehicle. So I have to believe that there are going to be engine
    particles that fall off very rapidly during those first few hundred miles (1k)
    and personally...I want them out of circulation !

    I have never heard about any special chemicals being added to oil when coming
    from the factory, so I cannot comment on that. If there WERE, wouldn't more of
    us have heard about it ? The dealer and manual never mentions anything about that.
  • swschradswschrad Posts: 2,171
    plain old 5w-30 in my case, 5w-20 is being used in recent production. dino oil. because YOU are the final machinist in the manufacture of the engine.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    Camry,

    I don't think so. Unlike motor oils, transmission fluid usually suffers first from oxidation more than anything else. It's the byproduct of friction and heat. ATF is exposed to shearing forces but not as much as motor oil and they usually occur more in cold temperature operation.

    Heat, moisture and dirt affect ATF. If you haven't towed excessive weight for long distances in hot weather, or in lots of stop-and-go driving, the ATF has likely not been heat stressed. If the fluid is bright red in color (although color is not necessarily an accurate indication), you're fine.

    I would recommend sticking with the owners manual recommendations.

    Best regards,
    Dusty
  • camrymancamryman Posts: 6
    Dustyk,

    The owners manual recommendations would be to have the initial ATF change at 30,000 miles. For breakin of a new car, do you think changing the ATF at an earlier schedule (such as at 10,000) will extend the Transmission life -- similar to changing the Engine Oil initially at 1000 miles could extend the Engine life?
  • swschradswschrad Posts: 2,171
    tranny oil is not that nasty. if you have contamination in the transmission from manufacture on a very bad monday, the grey fluid will hold it and flush it away when the fluid is changed. few transmissions are built in the middle of a wheat field, full of blowing dust and tumbleweeds, and I would expect only those units would benefit from a fluid change at 10k. save your money for something nice.
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    As Swschrad indicated, ATF is fairly durable material. Any foreign material larger than 25-30 micron isn't going to make it past the transmission filter. If you drive this vehicle in a normal manner, ie: no hauling heavy trailers or loads beyond 50-60% of the maximum load capacity, or driving in hilly country in exceptionally hot weather -- then the factory fill of ATF should take you to the 30,000 mile mark easily.

    Best regards,
    Dusty
  • carglowcarglow Posts: 91
    My owner's manual and scheduled maintenance booklet doesn't specify a interval to change ATF.

    Does Toyota ATF ever have to be changed?
  • swschradswschrad Posts: 2,171
    your service department should have normal and "severe service" change recommendations. the manual is assuming that joe average doesn't put enough driving on the car to require a fluid change. you do have the opportunity to screw up a good tranny by a bad change... creepy ten-buck filter from Hell, wrong fluid, and either too much or too little of it are all bad things. so toyota is hedging their bets that the trannies don't fail too much sooner in the out of warranty period if the fluid is never changed.

    it may be right, it may be wrong, but I don't buy the argument. I'd be thinking anywhere from 60K to 100K filter/fluid change regardless if it was my car.
  • I agree with you. If you have money to spend and you feel better changing the ATF, then by all means spend it. It helps the economy.

    Presently, we have an'01 Solara and we are changing ATF at 45000-50000 miles. The type of driving, environmental conditions, and any towing have a direct bearing on ATF deterioration and on the engine oil break down.

    For me, I have gone 50,000 miles in cars with automatics dating back to 1965. I drive in the country and we don't have alot of stop and go traffic. I have rolled up over 100,000 miles on the '63 Chevy II, '65 Chevy Impala, and a '71 340 Duster Never had any problems with transmissions. And I drove that 396 Impala and the 340 pretty hard.

    BN
  • ray hray h Posts: 120
    Which makes you just about as crazy as I am, solaraman2003. I am also one who likes to get the casting sand and the metal flash out of the crankcase as soon as the rings are seated - in my case at about 500-600 miles. Then I go on a strict 3,000 mile oil change interval regimen. As to oil filters, most "imports" that come with a "home country" oil filter more often than not are supplied with a U.S.-made "import" brand from the dealer when time for service. I bought ONE "Toyota" filter for my '89 toyota truck for its first oil change. Most expensive Purolator-made filter I ever bought. (ArvinMeritor is the parent company of Purolator filters and is an OEM supplier to Motorcraft and Mopar, too, among others.) Ever since, all my truck's gotten are Purolator-made Pep Boys $2.49 "Proline" or Champion Labs-made WalMart $1.97 "SuperTech" oil filters. (Champion Labs also makes U.S. Bosch, K&N, and is a co-supplier of AC oil filters - "Delphi" being the other, I believe.) Both the truck and my 2003 Sonata get a used oil analysis through a lab in Indiana every 12,000 miles. The "insolubles" column invariable comes in at <0.1% with the comment, "Excellent filtration" duly noted in the reports. I've read the reports of "magical" break-in oil supplied by the factories. Baloney. These reports seem to center on an extraordinarily high content of molybdenum di-alkyldi-thiocarbamate additive in the oil. This is an oil-soluble salt used as an anti-wear/extreme pressure agent. However, it's just as, if not more likely, that the high moly content is an additive in the greasy-like assembly lube applied at the factory to anything that rotates or slides (or doesn't move out of the way quickly enough...), and will be sloshed into suspension the first time the engine is started and run. In any event, moly is a common additive supplied in many over-the-counter common motor oils (though not exclusively - there are other very effective anti-wear/extreme pressure agents in use by certain oil companies - Valvoline, for instance, does not have a high moly count). Pennzoil, Motorcraft, The ConocoPhillips groups of brands, Chevron Supreme, and Havoline (a near clone of corporate stablemate Chevron Supreme since Chevron bought Texaco several years ago) are among those with significant moly content conventional motor oils. By the way, I use either Chevron Supreme or Havoline (whichever's on sale), and the truck has 272,000+ miles on the clock. Neither the head nor the pan's ever been off, and the view of the valve train at adjustment time is clean as a whistle. It's on its seventh set of brake pads/shoes, third clutch, and third set of shock absorbers, though; Toyota really needs to do something about their brakes, clutches, and shocks...
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 1,542
    Toyota specifies to "inspect" the ATF every 30,000 miles.
    Now that is open to interpretation.
    But personally, I have always gone on the premise that it should be changed at least every 50,000 miles or 2 years, unless otherwise specified.

    ray h,
    I am also one who likes to get the casting sand and the metal flash out of the crankcase as soon as the rings are seated - in my case at about 500-600 miles.
    I have never seen casting sand or flashing in the crank of a new engine. After the extensive flushing, cleaning and machine work, I can't see how it could survive, but I may be wrong.
    Cooling systems, now that is a different story.

    As far as filters, I only buy Wix or Wix made brands.

    My rebuilds receive 30 wt or 5w30 (used to install 10w40, but with the newer engines, they seem to react better to 5w30). At 3,000 miles, the oil can be changed to whatever is specified. On early year v-8s, I only use 30wt for breakin oil and they go 500-1,00 miles and change out, unless moly rings are installed, then I recommend 3,000 miles on the v-8s.
    25 years of doing this and no problems related to oils.
  • ian721ian721 Posts: 93
    The dealer for my 5-week old Camry said the first oil change should be at 3,750 miles (haven't reached that yet).
  • bogbog Posts: 1
    Does anyone know when should I change oil for the
    first time, my car has 50 miles on it. Service book says 3700 miles (free oil change),manual says it is only 1000 breaking period.
    I called Toyota service department and service gay said I should change at 1000 miles
    Thanks all.
  • slov98slov98 Posts: 112
    they want the business so I would have expected for them to say yes, but it's a personal preference, some do it at 1000, some don't. for the record I had mine changed at 1000.
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 1,542
    Service book says 3700 miles (free oil change)
    So what is the question?
    Change it at 3700 miles.
    Don't let them brow beat you into changing the oil any different than what is recommended.
    As Alcan posted in another thread, the manufacturer has engineers that spec out these things and they spend alot of money on owner's manuals to protect their interest. If you follow the specifications in the owner's manual, then there is nothing the dealer can do about it, unless they want to say that the manufacturer is wrong? I don't think they want to get into that battle.
  • hank2hank2 Posts: 75
    Guys -

    I missed something. I have a 2004 SE 4 Cyl Camry that I bought in June, and the manual said change oil at 5000, with no initial change needed.

    Clearly, you are quoting a different source?

    Help ?

    -hank2
  • wtd44wtd44 Posts: 1,211
    It really makes little to no difference about sources on the vast majority of current new vehicles. If you change your original oil and filter by the time you get to say, 1K, or 3k, I just cannot believe you will have done something inappropriate. Quite the opposite, I presume you will have done something particularly good for your new vehicle. In my own case, 3k is as long as I could ever put off the first oil and filter change.
    As a special proviso, if you buy into the VW family of vehicles, you may have to observe some very special oil requirements... It's murky over there.
  • I own a new V6 Accord. Depending on which Honda dealership I call, I get a different answer on when I should make the initial oil change (some say at 3,750 miles, others at 7,500 miles).

    Some dealers indicate the car has &#147;break-in&#148; oil installed at the factory. Those dealers recommend a first oil change at 7,500 miles. The &#147;break in&#148; oil is reported by those dealers to have different additives than common replacement oil. The different additives in the &#147;break in&#148; oil are reported to be beneficial to the new engine. However, I could not find any reference in the vehicle user manual that came with the car about &#147;break-in&#148; oil installed at the factory. The user manual only makes recommendations regarding ongoing oil change frequency based on severe or normal driving conditions.

    At what mileage should I make the initial oil change in my new car? I would prefer a response from a qualified Honda service technician, if possible. Thank you.
  • I own a 2005 Camry that just turned 5000 miles. When this happened the maintenance light came on.I assumed that it was because it passed 5000 miles , but I called the dealership and they confirmed this. They said this happened because I need to change the oil. I have done this but do not know how to get the light to go off. Does anyone know how to get this off without bringing it into the dealership.

    Thanks
  • fish8fish8 Posts: 2,282
    Read your owners manual.
  • gregoryc1gregoryc1 Posts: 766
    Change the engine oil and filter every 3,000 miles or 3 months (which ever comes first)! Don't try to bring in the maintenance war under budget! Oil and filters are cheap, engines are expensive! If you perform this service yourself, be sure to keep the oil and filter receipts, in case you have a warranty issue. It would be much better to let the dealer perform this service, then all your records are in one place!
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    I prefer to do it myself, to make sure it's done right. Who else is going to be more concerned with your car?

     

    As long as you keep receipts AND a detailed log, you shouldn't run into problems if you need to make an engine warranty claim.

     

    At least that was my experience with my '97 Camry 4-cylinder when it started to emit blue smoke on a cold startup. I presented my records and was able to get the engine valve stem seals replaced at no charge, at 57K miles, just before the 60K powertrain warranty was set to expire. There were no arguments from the dealer.

     

    I didn't have the dreaded sludge either.
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    Let's just answer the questions as they come up. If you don't like someone's posting style (be it !! ?!?! :-) or the rest) so be it.

     

    Let's answer the questions and help solve problems.
  • cutedhcutedh Posts: 31
    Please read you owner's manual and it tells you how to do it. I just did mine too.
«134
Sign In or Register to comment.