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Mercedes-Benz: Future Models

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Comments

  • sgtmjrsgtmjr Posts: 2
    Thanks again merc1. You are apparently quite the AMG guru. The S550 you mention by the way would seem to have considerable appeal given the likely $$ delta for the AMG variant.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Thanks, but I'm no AMG Guru. Its just that the info about the new V8s and the new S-Class are talked about so much on other sites to the point of it being all but confirmed at this point. Mercedes will have a lot to display at the Frankfurt autoshow this year it seems.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    There are lot of upcoming variations of the CLK, C and E-Class coming in a few months. Not all of this translates to U.S. market cars, but the most intersting E-Class variant is the new E320 CDI with the new V6. For the first time Mercedes will be able to offer a 4Matic diesel...the E320 CDI 4Matic. This model will definitely make it to the U.S. There is also a new 314hp 4.0L V8 diesel too in the E420 CDI. I look for the new V6 to wind up in the U.S. under the hoods of the new M-Class, R-Class, and of course the E-Class (replacing the current I6). This new diesel V8 I can see in the R-Class, S-Class and whatever replaces the G-Class. By the time the 2008 model year rolls around and a new C-Class is upon us I can see C320 CDI also since there is one in Europe now.

    Lots of info about the facelifted CLK, C-Class engines, and new diesels Here.

    At the IAA this year in Frankfurt it is also rumored that Mercedes will show a lightweight version of the SL. Think about a SL55 AMG that is about 500-1000lbs lighter. Remember this is car that can get to 60 mph in 4.5 seconds in its current (very heavy) guise. Of course the new S-Class will make its debut. There might even be an updated E-Class there too.

    M
  • ikramericaikramerica Posts: 95
    so it's about time brought the "light" back, huh?

    even the "sport light compact" SLK is a bit heavier than it might be.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Good point. Don't you just love the logic behind SL, SLK, SLR, CL and CLK?

    SL = Sport Light
    SLK = Sport Light Short
    CLK = Coupe Light Short
    CL = Coupe Light
    SLR = Sport Light Racing

    M
  • ikramericaikramerica Posts: 95
    both K words, but I always thought it was compact.

    BTW - What did the S in the original "S" class stand for. i know what the E and the L and the D meant, but not the S.
  • ikramericaikramerica Posts: 95
    Also, don't think CL means anything, since it came around after the naming change, and there is no way that car is "light." Old big coupe didn't have an L in it, nor did the E class coupe for that matter. Just like the ML doesn't mean anything, I would imagine.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I think S always stood for "Super" Like in the old SSK models. It stood for Super Sport. Actually none of these cars are "light" so CL is just as relevant as CLK to me. I'm betting ML means something light, but not sure what. Light for a "truck" that is. What did E stand for? Executive? C stood for "Compact" right?

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    For the first time in years I'm seeing advertising for a single E-Class model as opposed to just commercials about the "E-Class" in general. They're really pushing the E350. The E-Class is such a gorgeous car.

    M
  • ikramericaikramerica Posts: 95
    It means Einspritzen (excuse my german spelling). Translation? Fuel injected. The E arrived with the fuel injection techology in the late sixties, IIRC. Before that, sedan models were just 190, or 190D for deisel. Big cars were just called S models, like the 1960 220S.

    S means a lot of things. S for Sport, S for Super. There must be a meaning for the large cars though.

    T stands for station wagon, a designation that is now gone (300TD, 300TE)

    And L did mean light in the sports cars. (licht?) The original 300SL was absolutely light.

    But in the SE sedans, it was for the long wheelbase (not sure the german for that, lang?).

    The naming problems came with the compact 190 class, since the engines started getting larger and the public got confused by overlapping and such. They called the middle range the E class, when it was really just the middle sized sedan (how can the 300TD wagon be an E class?) So MB moved the letters to the front, kept the E for E class, S for large sedan, and used C for compact (not K), which screwed up all the coupes, which might explain the L in CL. Then the short coupe had to be CLK. Then the C-Coupe got confusing, since the CLK was already the small coupe, and the C stood for C-Class, not Coupe.

    Oh well, back to FUTURE models.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Sales were down 1.8 percent for May 2005 compared to May 2004. It seems that every Mercedes that isn't new is dropping and the brand new ones continue to post big gains.

    Details Here

    The CLS it seems continues to eat into the E-Class' sales. The SLK and M-Class were up 119.4% and 66.2% respectively compared to May 2004. The CLS sold 1550 units while the E-Class sold 3569 units (down 29.1% vs May 2004). If you add the CLS 1550 to the E-Class' 3569 you get 5119 which would have been a slight increase over last year. Very interesting. I'd say the E-Class is going to have a very, very tough road until that facelift and new V8 arrives for 2007. Inexplicably the G-Class also increased 32.3% compared to May 2004. M-Class buyer rub-off maybe? Though still we're only talking about 127 units. The CLK is about even with last year and I look for it to get a boost from the new "350" model and facelift. I look for the C-Class to pick up somewhat once the new V6s are out. The dealer closest to me still has a lot of 2005 C's left though so that might be another month. Of course the S-Class is on the down stroke, though I think it will spike before the year is out.

    The lesson here is that the SLK, CLS and M can't pull the brand alone. MB needs some gains in one of their sedan lines, unlikely to happen until the next S or facelifted E, both of which aren't due for a quite a while. The C-Class' new engines might do something, but minus the hatchback models the C-Class too will be challenged to attain the sales heights of last year. Now the R-Class is the wildcard. Other boards are saying that it will be out in Sept. We'll see. Since 2006 is the last year of the current S-Class I'm surprised that there hasn't been some type of "special edition" model yet.

    M
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    I was also reviewing the sales results. I see year to date sales are down by 6.2%. Better build quality seems to be in place now and that may help sales.

    Sedans are indeed the key to volume. I am unsure about the next S-class: the 'spyshots' I am seeing show a lot of Maybach styling cues. I don't see how this will boost S-class sales. It will also reinforce the perception that Maybach is a 'big Benz' and not the exclusive marque it should be.

    I think the E-class could do well in 2007. The E-class needs clear differentiation from the C-class in the next generation.

    Things can change - my US team is doing well this month. Cadillac's May car sales are up 50.9% over May 04 and 17.8% year to date. XLR sales were >50% of SL sales for the first time in April and repeated this in May (420 XLRs and 821 SLs). I don't know if XLR sales will continue growing but there will big smiles at Cadillac HQ today.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Which model is driving Cadillac's sales gains this year? The CTS or STS?

    I agree about Maybach. I think they need to come up with a look and design that is totally different, yet distinctively German.

    M
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    I agree with you, merc1 - but I can't really visualize what the Maybach should look like! It is not very distinctive now. Do you have any ideas? The new S-class with its styling similarities will dilute the Maybach image.

    I really like like the appearance (if the spyshots are close) of the upcoming S sedans. I see it as a real improvement and believe it will boost sales. Are the rest of you of the same mind?

    I feel quite positive about Mercedes products and the company's prospects. It will take time to end the carping of the press but I think Benz is now wide awake and working hard.

    At Cadillac: the CTS, STS and XLR lead the sales increases. Deville is up for May but down for the year. I had a few more comments on the 'Cadillac is cool' discussion in News and Views if you are interested - I don't want to hijack this board.
  • ikramericaikramerica Posts: 95
    C is the high volume world leader for MB, and these new engines should help. Since they have been around for a couple months in other countries, anyone know how the new engines have done in those places? Are sales up?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yeah the second half had better be better than the first if MBUSA is going to top last year's record. I'm waiting to see what the R-Class is going to do. It seems like Maybach is in the tank for the year only selling like 68 cars in the first quarter!

    M
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    is potentially a volume leader. It is coming out of the gate really strong.

    The M-class could may a lot to Mercedes sales on its own over the last half of the year. It is not enough on its own but it may be a good sign of how the upcoming new models will do.
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    in today's Wall St. Journal (Friday, June10, 2005).

    Quite a positive article: 'a real improvement on the original version'. Excellent handling/cornering. MPG averaged 16.5 which was thought to be a bit low.

    The author avoids the snide "Mercedes quality is terrible nowadays" remarks some reviewers now put in every Mercedes evaluation.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The SLK280 has arrived, see here.

    Starts at $43,675. Nicely done for about 50K.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well that time has come Mercedes fans, the arrivial of the next-generation S-Class. It will be showing Monday 6/20/05. I'm breathless....

    See here

    See here

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I almost forgot to add the new S-Class to this thread:

    See Here

    Full article:

    Here

    M
  • ikramericaikramerica Posts: 95
    Though i like the MB front end, so much of the new S is much like the BMW 7 series, inside and out. Sad really.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I can surely see the inside, but what do you see thats like the 7-Series on the outside? The trunklid? I think that looks for more like a Maybach that a 7-Series. I don't see anything else, it surely isn't those puffed up fender arches.... :mad:

    M
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    I see hardly any resemblance between the exteriors of these two cars. The interior is similar but I like the way Mercedes has applied their wood trim.

    What bugs me is that the side view of the S shares many cues (particularly the fender flares) with the Ford Focus 4 door sedan.
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    like hotcakes!

    The new SLK and M are carrying the torch for the whole line. Hope the new S will do likewise.

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/07/01/136380.html
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Thats amazing, the best June on record and every Mercedes except the SLK and M-Class are down compared to last year. Don't forget the CLS too, it did a lot to keep MB ahead of June 2004.

    I predict the new S will be the best selling S of all time for several reasons, its different and looks to finally be of the type of quality an S-Class priced vehicle should be.

    This year though the facelifted CLK, new R-Class and re-engined C-Class should all really turn things up in July, August and Sept as all three are introduced.

    I'm glad to see the E-Class pulling close to its month by month percentages of last year. I think it may be able to rally late in the year and re-claim its best seller in class spot from the 5-Series.

    M
  • ikramericaikramerica Posts: 95
    While the new engined Cs will help some against the initial firepower of the new 3 series, and the CLK will hold steady with it's changes (rather than continuing to decline),

    It's the R-Class, the CLS, the M, and the new SLK280 added to the SLK line that will continue to boost sales.

    S class will decline until the new model, CL is in the toilet, E class is just going to hum along until a face-lift and new V8.

    You also may see a surge in G class sales toward the end as some people will see it as their "last chance" to get one.
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    and it is doing very well. too.

    Merc1, you mention BMW......their sales are down for the first half of the year. They improved performance of the latest editions of the 3, 5 and 7 series but the looks are weird. The new C class may give the 3 series a real challenge!

    Ikramerica, you made me smile..........the 'last edition' of most things does usually give sales a boost......may happen with the G class also.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    See Here

    The new AMG 6.3L V8 is naturally aspirated and makes 510hp/464lb-ft torque. It isn't clear which models will get this new V8 in this particular state of tune, other than the R and M-Classes.

    I don't see how performance will improve over the current supercharged 5.5L V8 in the "55" car with this new engine because it has to rev much higher only to make a few more hp and it makes a lot less torque.

    In reading the specs it seems this V8 is similar to BMW's new V10 in the way it adopts a lot of racing tech for production. According to the article this V8 doesn't share anything with other MB V8s, a first for AMG since they've always taken a stock MB V8 and tweaked it until now.

    Now the specs on the S-Class' new 5.5L V8 would be nice....

    M
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