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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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Comments

  • caliddcalidd Posts: 60
    Can anyone send me or point me to a link of photos of the interior of the Zephyr IN LIGHT STONE? I live some distance from a Lincoln dealer and have been able to see only dark interiors and sand (which is very nice). I'd like to see photos of the light stone before purchasing.

    Thanks!
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,688
    Did you not think to check the Lincoln web site? It's right there under colors:

    image
  • pmerk28pmerk28 Posts: 121
    Lincoln blew it. Why on earth didn't they stick to the concept version exterior? That car was so beautiful, especially the rear end of the car. The rims/tires were agressive. It was something special to look at. The production car looks nice but compared to the concept it's just boring and it's a shame. Ford/Mercury/Lincoln never seem to get anything 100% on the money. Does the company have any explanation as to why they did this to the exterior? I do actually prefer the production interior over the concept car. Here is a link to the concept car to refresh our memories of what this car COULD and SHOULD have looked like.

    http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-2006-Lincoln-Zephyr.htm
  • prigglypriggly Posts: 642
    Actually, I like the production car better than the concept car. There is something juvenile about the appearance of the concept car, particularly the wheels. The production chrome wheels are sharp. The production interior is much better than the concept interior.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    My Canadian friend, I have to disagree with you on this one. When I saw the concept Zephyr, I literally wanted to put my deposit on it so I'd be gauranteed to have one of the firsts. I loved the production Zephyr.

    I don't know what happens at Ford. They are too scared to take risks and at the same time do what is necessary. To me it is quite easy.

    A. Build it in America (it's a Lincoln, it can carry the premium)

    B. Bring out the concept AS IS just like Chrysler and Mazda who are both looked at as great on design.

    C. Design a modern, flowing interior like Cadi has done or what Lincoln showed with the MKS and concept Aviator. Matter of fact this is taken care of in B. For all else interior wise, copy Toyota as to interior size, plastic quality, panel gap. materials, packaging, etc.

    Guaranteed hit.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    The concept isn't that different. Still, there are details missing, like around the front fog lights and the tailpipes. That is too bad, but I suspect it was simple cost savings. Same on the interior. The covered cup holder looks so much more expensive than the open holes Ford insists on putting in its up level models. Some of us notice and care about such cheapness.

    I have no idea why they took the tail lights in such a different direction. The production ones certainly don't look more elegant and I can't imagine that they are much cheaper either.
  • I agree - Why can other car companies produce vehicles that look like what they show and tease with and Ford produces what looks like that vehicles "before" picture from one of those plastic surgery make-over shows?
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Must of what doesn't pass into production mainly has to do with safety. Specially pertaining to bumpers. The sleek flush one of prototypes look nice, but realistically they aren't useful or even pass crash standards. Same with all that shiney chrome interior some Lincoln concepts have had....it's a safety issue...as well as some other toys or gimmicks found on the interior.

    "or all else interior wise, copy Toyota as to interior size, plastic quality, panel gap. materials, packaging, etc. "

    I hope not, Toyota interior quality in my opinion has dropped from some copies I've dealt with. Let alone, I have an issue with the cheap mousefur carpet they use on some vehicles, and the spray on-like felt headliner on many of their vehicles... Thats there way to cut corners, so it's understandable. For interiors, it's VW/Audi that sets the benchmark...it's just a shame that the package it's on is as unreliable as a Kia.

    For years I complained because all the concept vehicles were being designed, yet NOTHING would hit the market. This was a major gripe I had with Ford. Teasing people with concepts such as the 427, the drivetrain of the Meta One, the Continental, the Navi-cross (which was a jump and a skip away from being produced) that never made it remotely. The most that made it was the 427 Grill onto the Fusion.

    And because of that, now concepts will be much closer to reality, than the above mentioned vehicles. These being the Lincoln MKS for example, this Zephyr/MKZ. The changes made from the concept to the production are not as dramatic, b ut yet are feasable.

    So, is it better to have a few changes, or not have a vehicle at all? Personally the spending budget on concept vehicles/teasers that never will see the light has been slashed heavily :)
  • pmerk28pmerk28 Posts: 121
    "I hope not, Toyota interior quality in my opinion has dropped from some copies I've dealt with."

    I owned a 2000 Camry Solara and a 2005 Camry XLE and both of these interiors were superlative for the price range. The 2005 Camry XLE interior could have passed for a $37,000 car. 99% of the domestics are nowhere close to Toyota/Honda in interior fit and finish. In fact the Zephyr is the 1% at least in the ball park IMO.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    I'm not saying they aren't, but the domestics have closed the gap a bit (even GM who's interiors were previously designed by Mattel). But even Toyota has their shortcuts in the quality of their interiors, whereas with VW/Audi's, you really have to search for it.

    And thats the main reason the domestics have improved their interior... for quality perception. VW has proved time and tiem again, and have rated tops in "quality perception" surveys because of the quality of their materials, senses, colors, woods, surfaces, etc.

    Ford itself has improved cabin furnishes budget 3 timesfold per vehicle, and as displayed by a few recent entries, it's evident. Of course, I can always point out where some of the shortcuts were taken...but that would be cheating if I shared that :)
  • pmerk28pmerk28 Posts: 121
    ANT14 do you work for Ford or a dealer?

    I am with you on Audi interiors, the A8 interior kills BMW/Mercedes/Jaguar in that price range. Stunning is the word. I really really want to love American cars, but the one GLARING place where they fall short year after year after year is interiors. GM is the all time worst of course. A Lexus ES 330 interior (and the new 350 coming out) absolutely embarrasses the Cadillac STS interior.

    GM legacy costs built into each vehicle leads to cost cutting which means hard plastics, cheap plastics and the sharing of Chevy Aveo knobs in a 50,000 caddy. It is a disgrace to me. Thank the Lord the new Tahoe/Escalade got a major upgrade but of course those are SUV's which GM has proven it can do. The Mercury Milan interior is full or hard cheap plastic and that awful faux aluminum plastic. When it come to passenger car interiors Chrysler/Doge/GM/Ford are not in the same hemisphere as Audi/Lexus(the king)/Toyota/Honda/Acura/VW/Infiniti.

    GM has even managed to ruin Saab's interiors.
  • pmerk28pmerk28 Posts: 121
    Watch GM destroy the awesome Enclave Interior once it goes into production.....
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    The sleek flush one of prototypes look nice, but realistically they aren't useful or even pass crash standards.

    I doubt that had anything to do with removing the elegant details from the Zephyr concept front bumper, and the exhaust outlets of the rear bumper. I suggest it was cost savings...and poor judgment. Same with plopping open, dirt catching cup holders in the console of everything up to and including the most expensive Navigator.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    ANT, I love your posts but with this one I have to disagree. How come the Acura TL bumper is flush with the rest of the design and still yet meets crash safety standards. If Acura can do it, so can't Lincoln. There obviously is a way.

    No one complains about Toyota interiors. With Lincoln I was really talking about Lexus, not really Toyota itself but again, I have very very very very rarely heard a complaint about plastics, panel gap, and quality of a Toyota. Sure Audi is better, but Audi spends a lot of time and monay in design and seems to run out by the time they get too quality. I am not asking for an Audi interior in a Lincoln. I mean come on, they need to make money here. Instead, I'd take the Lexus IS interior in a Zephyr. Not so much the design but the plastic quality, and attention to detail. I do believe the Lexus design is better than the Lincoln one but that is a different story. The Zephyr should have looked just like the concept with a 3.5 at 270 and a price tag of $30K. With that should have come an interior that could rival a 3 Series. This did not come to be, so a lot of us feel slighted. Ford needs to pull out all the stops and put products on the market that don't just equal but are above the competition. Look at the Sonata for an example or the Acura TL. You can't say much is worse than the competition at the price but you can say a whole lot is better about those cars in comparison to the competition at that price.
  • bigtbigt Posts: 413
    Finally some snow here in the DC area. Everyone is a slipping and sliding and I drove right in with confidence with the AWD MKZ! A 45 minute commute is now a 3 hour commute with just 1-2 inches of snow. These folks have no clue how to drive. On my way to Minnesota to get some real winter. It looks like a real winter this year folks. Maybe like the ones we use to have back in the 70's! All that snow melt has to go somewhere! Enjoy and drive on! :blush:
  • "Must of what doesn't pass into production mainly has to do with safety. Specially pertaining to bumpers. The sleek flush one of prototypes look nice, but realistically they aren't useful or even pass crash standards. Same with all that shiney chrome interior some Lincoln concepts have had....it's a safety issue...as well as some other toys or gimmicks found on the interior. "

    I understand that, but please don't drink the Kool-aid.

    Who can possibly think "over-promise and under-deliver" is a way to gain credibility? Somehow other manufacturers are capable of making vehicles that look sleek and like the prototypes/show cars. I really think Ford has a certain contempt for the public and thinks people aren't smart enough to notice the compromises.

    They better accept that they've been wrong and it's time to change, or Billy might be remembered at the LAST famous Ford.
  • pmerk28pmerk28 Posts: 121
    "The Zephyr should have looked just like the concept with a 3.5 at 270 and a price tag of $30K."

    EXACTLY. With those wheels and Rims. It would have been such a massive hit. As the Chrysler 300 proves, Americans CAN compete in sales if the car looks great AND can be had with a lot of horsepower. The Zephyr concept looked GREAT. The production car merely looks good with a sufficient powertrain. It fails both tests, not miserably mind you but enough to make you shake your head. When you are a struggling company with an senior citizen image that doesn't cut it. It won't take buyers away from Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, Acura etc.

    As an example a local mall by me had a 300C Chrysler on display, all decked with the HEMI stickering for about 34,500. Upstairs there was a Lexus GS430 stickering for 52,000. I would buy the 300. More power, roomier, much better looking. 18 grand less. I would buy it based on those factors knowing full well a Chrysler 300 can't match the Lexus in quality, reliability, interior elegance etc. Judging by it's success many buyers must feel the same way.

    Lincoln is never going to out refine or out reliable the Japanese. What they should do is out design them as far as looks and then outpower them with good old american muscle.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,688
    Lincoln is never going to out refine or out reliable the Japanese

    You've obviously not read any recent J.D. Power Surveys on long term reliability. See for yourself:

    image
  • Seeing where Jag, Land Rover and Volvo are on that list, makes it that much more frustrating to see how they are shafting the future of Lincoln.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    The sleek flush one of prototypes look nice, but realistically they aren't useful or even pass crash standards.

    I saw an A6 yesterday, and then thought of the A8, the TT, the A4, the new Q7, and recognized that they all have
    "sleek flush" front ends. People universally praise Audi designs and I haven't heard they do terrible in crash tests. Aagain, I think that what has been said is a little off. It can be done, Aaudi is doing it time and again. And also check a VW Jetta or new Passat. Same thing is the case. If VW can do it, so can Lincoln.
  • tiger16tiger16 Posts: 54
    Couldn't agree with you more. In fact, I believe I may have been the first to voice displeasure with Ford's departure from their concept Zephyr. Back in November I made a post stating that Ford really screwed up the car. When I first saw the concept (in the late summer of 2005) I couldn't wait to go to an L-M dealer and plop down my money. When the production model went on sale, I was extremely disappointed. Nice but, it has no where near the sleek, sexy body or interior trim that the concept had (great bumper treatments, pretty platinum colored gauges, wood shift knob and console, covered cup holders. Probably even had real hood shocks instead of the cheap [non-permissible content removed] prop rod!)
    It took me 4 months to decide to buy a Zeph and I bought one mostly because in that price range not much else interested me and I needed a new car. The Zeph is not bad but, every time I approach the car I think "man the concept looked sharp, this is so boring." And the concept interior was much nicer. Just too much metal and gray plastic in the production model. The concept with the 3.5 would have been an absolute killer and a market segment leader.
    Another thing Ford has to do is not only put more powerful engines in their cars (despite those few of you that say the power in fine, the majority of buyers want more) but, make them more fuel efficient. My Zeph gets 1 mile less around town than my 10 year old Maxima with 182,000 miles and 4 speed auto got. On the highway it's 2 MPG less. These are actual numbers not EPA estimates. This is what 10 years of innovation and a 6 speed get you? Check the Avalon and new ES350 estimates. They weigh 100 to 200 lbs more than the Zeph, have 50 more HP and get 1 & 3 more MPG. C'mon! Ford can't do any bettere than this?
    I don't think things are really going to markedly improve at Ford until there is a total management replacement. Those currently making the decisions just don't have a clue. This includes replacing the car's name and engine 3 months after the car went into production. Total BS and stupidity! Remember, all of this is coming from a Zeph owner.
  • pmerk28pmerk28 Posts: 121
    The new Zephyr is a nice car. That's all it is. Ford needs more than nice cars, they need winners. A fully loaded Zephyr to me doesn't seem like a great deal price wise either. I'll probably end with an Avalon anyway. I like the redesign and my wife and her family are obessed with Toyotas and she's already mentioned the Avalon by name. Uh oh. Her mother has a Camry her father have has a Camry, she's driven two Camrys, she's driving a Sienna, I'm currently driving her Dad's old Camry. Yep I see an Avalon in our future.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,688
    You have to walk before you can run. If it's the 7th inning and you're down by 8 runs you don't swing for the fences - you just try to get on base and get hits. That's where Lincoln is right now. They need good cars (and crossovers) that they can sell without large incentives. Their plan right now is 1 new vehicle a year for 3 years (give or take a couple of months) - Zephyr, Mark X and Mark S. Not to mention the engine upgrade and AWD for the Zephyr for 2007 and possible hybrid for 2008 for both the Mark X and the Zephyr/Mark Z. That's not bad for a company that a year ago had 1 Large, expensive SUV; 1 large car based on an ancient platform and 2 lame ducks (Aviator and LS).

    We all wish they hadn't gotten so far behind in the first place but given that I think they're headed in the right direction.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    We shall all see soon enough. There have been a number of now defunct companies and divisions "heading in the right direction" right before demise...

    Hitting one out of the park could really help, but it doesn't matter. Lincoln is not introducing anything in the foreseeable future that has any chance of flying that high.

    Let's hope the ok efforts that the Z, X and S represent are followed by something uniquely Lincoln-esque. The S at least goes beyond the badge engineering that the Z and X barely escape, but it doesn't appear to have the soul to incite a passionate following either.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    "You have to walk before you can run. If it's the 7th inning and you're down by 8 runs you don't swing for the fences - you just try to get on base and get hits.That's where Lincoln is right now. They need good cars (and crossovers) that they can sell without large incentives. "

    I disagree. THis is more comparible to a team getting the ball after the two minute warning. What do you do? If they are on your bench you bring in Tom Brady and Terrell Owens with Jerry Rice as the other receiver. What I am trying to say is YOU GIVE IT YOUR BEST. If the production Zzephyr can sell without incentives, than the concept Zephyr which was a FAR FAR better car, could sell with a premium! Sort of like a 300C. All the Zeohyr needed was the concept produced "as is", an AWD system and 270 horses under the hood. All of which were possible. If you like the current sales numbers, you would have loved the concepts because the concept actually could have ran agianst and made a very serious case against buying a 3-Series, a G35, and made the base line CTS look like a car for the incompetent.

    I have said it time and time again. Ford has too many business men and not enough car guys. GM, conversly, has too many car guys and not enough business men.
  • pmerk28pmerk28 Posts: 121
    All Ford needs to do is announce a freshening for the Zephyr for 2007 or 2008 and just replicate the concept car on the outside right down the wheels and rims. Put in a bigger motor and change the steering wheel to a more agressive three spoke type. OR change the body to the concept version but offer the huge tires.rims as part of a sport edition with a more aggressive interior, stiffer handling etc.

    Oh wait this Ford not Lexus so there goes those ideas.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    PMERK28 forward Ford your resume and your ideas. Put me and some others as a reference. If they don't take you, we'll know my belief that they have too many business men and not enough car guys is true.
  • savethelandsavetheland Posts: 671
    "Her mother has a Camry her father have has a Camry, she's driven two Camrys, she's driving a Sienna, I'm currently driving her Dad's old Camry. Yep I see an Avalon in our future. "

    LOL. My friend has three Camries! One is for his wife, another - the older one he gave to his son and bought himself a new Camry.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    The Zephyr has had incentives all along. Thankfully, they are small, but nonetheless, they have been there right from the beginning.

    The car you suggested would likely not have needed them...like the 300 didn't need them until recently.
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