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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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Comments

  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    Agreed. So let's get going with it.
  • savethelandsavetheland Posts: 671
    I don't care about platforms, and even engine designs. What I care about - the final product - how it feels and drives. If American engineers are proved being un-capable designing good cars (what was proven many time last 30 years) then let Japanese and Europeans do it. Build factories in Mexico if Mexican workers are more capable than unionized lazy American workforce – who cares.

    I saw Denali - it looks more tasteful than Navigator. And interior looks luxurious. Ford still need to catch up in interior design with imports and even GM. Whatever good interior Ford engineers may design – this awful piece of cheap black plastic that they call “radio” and ”climate controls” kills the deal for me. In modern market you can find cars that handle almost as well as Ford but have more expensive looking and feeling interiors, like Honda Accord and presumably Saturn Aura. I can sacrifice handling a little bit for more refined interior feel.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Zephyr anyone? :)
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    No, thanks. I'll keep my LS. :shades:
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    "OHV engines are just fine for most Americans, because the current ones can deliver the torque in a reasonably smooth fashion."

    Reasonably being the operative word here. The 6.2L in my Escalade shook on idle constantly. Not the kind of smoothness I am used to in a luxury car. My Navigators, both of them were much smoother, and frankly, felt as powerful although I know they technically weren't.
  • I agree, OHV is just fine for most, although new tachnology and aluminum blocks does not hurt.

    Personally, although i have not been in the new Escallade interrior, I blieve the '06 Navigators interrior is the Best interrior of any Vehicle in its price range, in terms of design. I love the wood and the plamcement, especially all of the spance in the interrior and the cover for the radio and nav system. Very nice. The new navigator is, im sorry ford, but a POS compared to the '06, IMO.

    The engines are probably a bit alcking in terms of a Luxury SUV, but Lincoln DOES have a volume product...

    The Zephyr, or MKZ. It starts at about 30 and a fully loaded one comes in at 35. Good deal. Im not too fond with the wood on the sides of the steering wheel, but in teh Gator it looks much worse. You do get allot of features for the money though.

    I really hope Ford puts the 263 hp V6, at least in 260 hp form in the Fusion and Milan ASAP. A good engine is alwayse the best selling point, whtetr its good on HP or economy, its agood selling point.

    Made in Mexico is not, but the UAW mainly have themselves to blame. I hope they find a way to bring production back to the US.

    I just wish Ford stopped calling all lincolns "mark" now. That is so... BAD. They should not ruin the last clain to fame they have, and thats the Mark line. It would be great if/when the Mark IX comes out (based on MUSTANG OH YEA!), but by then the Mark name would be so Diluted.

    Mark in a pickup truck?????????????? Man that sucks. Like many have said they could have expanded the Navigator name with Navigator LT, but see you need common sence to do that.

    Even so, the MKS looks good, as long as you don't look inside :mad:

    Good luck Ford, I will still be your fan, but get your act together. You have made lots of progress so far, just get your act together.
  • ace35ace35 Posts: 131
    SUVs: Have you sat in a Tahoe? Seen the Denali? Driven an Escalade? They are beautiful vehicles. The interiors are now better than theose in the Expy/Navigator AND the engines are LESS thirsty. Esp the 400hp Caddy engine with displacement on demand. Get your facts straight.

    Actually typical GM, displacement on demand is unavailable on the 6L engines at this time. One must wonder why they didnt apply the technology to this engine first being that it is the "premium" engine of the gm trucks. So seems like we should all get our facts straight...!
  • navigator89navigator89 Posts: 1,080
    Lol, what happened to your spelling in the second paragraph? :sick:
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I've found it's hard to make a Cadillac guy a LIncoln guy, and even harder to make a Lincoln guy a Cadillac guy. You kind of like one or the other if you have any car passion at all.

    I like the Zephyr interior - to me, it's the best feature aesthetically. BUT, I don't like the high cowl. I don't like the bathtub feeling in the CTS, and I don't like it in this either. But the interior is pretty. The rest of the car is pretty ordinary for a Lincoln, IMO.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Let's please get back to the Zephyr - that's why we're here. ;)
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    "Esp the 400hp Caddy engine with displacement on demand...

    Actually typical GM, displacement on demand is unavailable on the 6L engines at this time"

    Mea culpa. Disp on Dem is in the Tahoe in the 5.3L V8, not the 6.2L in the Esc. APologies.

    I still think the Zephyr is better looking than the LS.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    I still think the Zephyr is better looking than the LS.
    It should be...it is a heckuva lot newer. And you would have thought Lincoln would have learned a lesson from the LS. Although it looked ok, and had some forward-thinking design features (like the abbreviated front overhang), it was too plain and not expensive-looking and distinctive enough for the price class. Lincoln was being too careful and so the initial favorable reception didn't work out for very long.

    One could argue the same about the Zephyr (it is too plain or derivative), but the Zephyr had to share most body components with a Ford...or not be at all. The LS on the other hand, lent its body to an uplevel Ford (the Thunderbird) but with different body panels, wheelbase and body style.

    None of these cars made a big splash in the marketplace(Ford's protests that the Zephyr is doing wonderfully aside). The Zephyr should be a volume model for Lincoln, but it is not. There is neither enough production possible, nor enough pressure on sales to make it so. If it were selling anywhere near as well as the LS did its first year, the division honchos would be peeing their pants in ecstacy.

    With the right re-style and upgrades, the LS could have moved upmarket where it would have had more prospects for making a profit. I don't think Lincoln had any plans for the next iteration in place when the LS was first introduced (given the lead time needed to bring a total redesign to market). I don't think Toyota would make such an obvious planning error. I doubt the next iteration of the MKZ is very far along either.

    I see Ford's stock is plummeting even more today. Where are the proposed new products we don't already know about fcr months now??? Does this company really have a desire to survive?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    BTW, the $4,000+ in incentives on the Zephyr is obviously contained in the sweet leasing deal currently being offered (no cash due at signing, no 1st month payment, no down payment, and only $364 a month for 39 months). You gotta know that is costing Ford some bucks to offer.
  • ...it was too plain and not expensive-looking and distinctive enough for the price class. Lincoln was being too careful and so the initial favorable reception didn't work out for very long.

    That's in the best Lincoln tradition. ;) Here's Henry Leland, from Lincoln and Continental Classic Motorcars, the Early Years: "I believe motorists will agree that the ideal car should possess primarily six important virtues: good appearance, trustworthiness, long life, power, economy, and comfort. The order of their importance is largely a matter of individual opinion. In appearance, the cars are substantial, well-proportioned, and graceful."

    The oft-cited quintessential Lincolns, the 1956 Continental Mark II and the 1961 Continental, which started life as a Ford Thunderbird, were pretty restrained compared to the competition.

    What one person might see as bland others might see as classically understated. Of course, if you're going to go the understated route, you'd better back it with compelling technology, impeccable fit and finish, and engaging handling.

    IMO where the LS failed was initially somewhat cheap interior materials and failure on Lincoln's part to adequately advertise the car's virtues. They just let it languish.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    My guess is they'll move Zephyr production to wherever they're making the MkX and Edge freeing up more production for Fusions/Milans and allowing more MkZ production. This makes sense since the MkX, Edge and MkZ will all be using the same drivetrain and same basic platform.

    2006 is just a warm-up to give Lincoln dealers some product to sell. 2007 will be the yardstick as to how successful the MkZ will be once it gets the 3.5L and AWD and (hopefully) more production capacity.

    I'll even predict that they'll sell close to 50K of the 2007 models assuming they can produce that many. That's what the LS did in it's first model year.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    IMO where the LS failed was initially somewhat cheap interior materials and failure on Lincoln's part to adequately advertise the car's virtues. They just let it languish.

    The LS was just the first part of a bigger plan for Lincoln that included a 3 series and 7 series competitor plus European exports. Then the Firestone fiasco hit, Lincoln's budget got cut by 70% overnight which killed the other new vehicles. This drove up the cost of the DEW98 platform even higher with only 1 Lincoln vehicle using it. Then they were kicked out of the PAG and export plans were killed. When they discontinued the Continental the LS was forced to fill that void in the dealer lineup which led to even further price reductions, ensuring the LS was losing money on every sale. THAT's when they stopped advertising it.

    The sad part is they had at least a 2 year headstart on Cadillac back then. The LS was tested on the Ring way before the CTS.

    Blame Firestone, lawyers and stupid SUV drivers.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    And Ford as well. When the chips are down, you do NOT starve the marketplace of product. It is needed even more. Borrow the money. Get creative. But you absolutely can't pay off a Firestone-type debacle by robbing your company of its very lifeblood: the products it sells. Or you get what Lincoln now has: a mishmash of delayed introductions, and not enough products, some of which are too old or else (in the 2006 Zephyr's case) under-developed.

    Meanwhile a commnent on another email...
    Understated and bland are two different things. The 1961-69 Continentals may have been understated, but few saw them as bland. Furthermore, time has been kind to the design. On the other hand, time will find the 500 as forgettable in 20 years as it is today.
  • "Blame Firestone, lawyers and stupid SUV drivers."

    Ford gets the blame.

    They are the ones who have a new 10 year plan every single year. Other than F-150 and Mustang, they have not successfully launched a fully-developed car in about 6 years.

    Think of all the eggs they have laid - Blackwood, Marauder, T-bird, The aborted SVT's, the promised-freshened Mark LT, Adrenaline, the weak engined Zephyr renamed after 6 months, the shamefully outdated Focus and 13 year old Crown Vic on a 30 year old chassis and downright embarrassing Ranger. The Expedition/Navigator and Explorer/Mountaineer are both very capable and well engineered but bizarrely, they put 10 year old bodies on the new chassis. The 500/Montego with small V-6's carrying nearly 5000 lbs and now we hear hints that maybe their fingers were crossed behind their backs when they said the MKS would be built.

    Oh yeah, they blew years of development money on the GT so Billy had a piece of jewelry to show off at the country club.

    The fish always rots from the head.
  • caliddcalidd Posts: 60
    I've heard that finance rate on the Zephyr for 36 months is 1.9%. Any guesses that this will drop to 0% as 2007 Mkz's hit the show room? When would that be anyway?

    Also, a color question. I've seen several different models with the Light Sage color, and there appears two be two variations of that color: one is cashmere-like, and the other appears to have a greenish-hue to it. Is this just an optical illusion, or is there a quality control issue here?
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "With the right re-style and upgrades, the LS could have moved upmarket where it would have had more prospects for making a profit."

    Ford did. If you noticed the pricing on the LS the past 2 years, it has gone up quite a bit in comparison to the loaded $41K pricetag when it debuted. My '05 came in at $53K...Obviously, I paid less than half. And to bring in the Zephyr in '06, Lincoln made the LS only available on V8, and killed the V6.

    "My guess is they'll move Zephyr production to wherever they're making the MkX and Edge freeing up more production for Fusions/Milans and allowing more MkZ production"

    Good guess, although let me toss another one your way. Zephyr/MKZ over to AutoAlliance, along with the Mustang and Mazda6. Well, new '08 Mazda6 that is.
  • Care to drop in the Mark LT thread?
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    I did, nothing happening there though.
  • What happened to the freshened Mark LT they said would be unveiled at the NY Auto show?
  • Understated and bland are two different things. The 1961-69 Continentals may have been understated, but few saw them as bland. Furthermore, time has been kind to the design. On the other hand, time will find the 500 as forgettable in 20 years as it is today.


    Agreed on the first part. The '61 Continentals were pretty much hailed as a welcome change from the excess at Cadillac.

    On the other hand, I for one happen to like the 500's design much better than the Chrysler 300, just because it is bland and doesn't get tiresome to look at. If only it had more power. And, IMO, my LS is classically understated, not bland.

    Now, back to Zephyr....
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    I do not know much of what occured with the NY Auto Show, although I did here something in relation to that issue.
  • I was wondering how many people do you think the lincoln zephyr can fit? Can it fit 5 people in the car comfortably, to anyone to owns the zephyr. Thanks and God Bless.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    Depends on how big they are and for how long. There is room for 5 for short trips - no problem. Longer trips are probably ok unless it's 3 full size adults. That might be a bit tight.
  • bigtbigt Posts: 413
    2 adults and a teen fit fine in the rear seat. 2 in the back with the cup holder folded down in the middle would be better for a long haul. It has a huge trunk so plenty of space there. I am starting to see more and more of them on the road. No problems with mind as I approach the 5k mark. I use to own the 300m, I was over looking at their threads and all they are talking about over there are mechanical problems with the 300m. My Zephyr is doing just fine! :shades:
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