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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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Comments

  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    You are starting to see more and more of them on the road?? I am a car oriented guy living in an urban area, and I have seen exactly zero that were not on dealers' lots.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    And of course it is the concept car, not the real Zephyr, that is used for the illustration.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    'The LS was just the first part of a bigger plan for Lincoln that included a 3 series and 7 series competitor plus European exports. Then the Firestone fiasco hit, Lincoln's budget got cut by 70% overnight which killed the other new vehicles. This drove up the cost of the DEW98 platform even higher with only 1 Lincoln vehicle using it. Then they were kicked out of the PAG and export plans were killed. When they discontinued the Continental the LS was forced to fill that void in the dealer lineup which led to even further price reductions, ensuring the LS was losing money on every sale. THAT's when they stopped advertising it.

    The sad part is they had at least a 2 year headstart on Cadillac back then. The LS was tested on the Ring way before the CTS.

    Blame Firestone, lawyers and stupid SUV drivers."

    Exactly right, akirby - and it's a real shame. If Lincoln would have stayed on course, like Nasser planned (the possibly one thing he did right at Ford), I'd probably be driving the 7-series version today, instead of a Lexus.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    And to follow up on the generous lease incentives...

    Our local dealers are advertising new Zephyrs for $25,399 before any dickering. This includes rebate, FMCC rebate, discount, etc. That's $4,300 right there for an allegedly hot product in short supply.

    Of course that discount pales in comparison to the TC discount: the MSRP is listed at $43,000 and the sale price as $28,995. MSRP joke, I'd say. With new Grand Marquis' going for less than $16,000 and Mariners a bit more than that, is it any wonder Lincoln Mercury (and Ford) is not making any money?

    It's a bad precedent that the Zephyr is setting for the better equipped 2007 MKZ. With some exceptions of course, most people are going to demand big discounts as expected, or go elsewhere
  • Well, I consider myself a car-oriented guy living in an urban area, and I've seen at least 4 distinct Zephyrs on the road in the last two months. It's taken a while to see any not on the lot, though. 4's not many, but at least it's something.
  • caliddcalidd Posts: 60
    Anyone know what the gas mileage will be on the 3.5 engine in the 2007 MKz? Is mpg likely to drop substantially?

    Also, how will the increased HP (not AWD, just increased HP) on the 2007 MKz affect MSRP of the MKz as compared to the 2006 Zephyr?
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Posts: 396
    FWIW - The following is from Automotive News 4/24/06, the article requires subscription so I don't know any more than this..

    Renamed Zephyr will get higher sticker
    Lincoln's entry-level model will top $30,000
    Lincoln plans to raise the price of its entry-level sedan when it renames it the MKZ for the 2007 model year. That car, which debuted as the Zephyr for the 2006 model year, is being renamed this fall to align with Lincoln's new alphabetic naming scheme. story Published: 4/24/06 6:00 AM [SUB][$]
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,690
    Unless they include other current options as standard items I wouldn't expect the base price to rise more than a few hundred dollars. Fuel mileage should be very close if not identical to the current model.
  • prigglypriggly Posts: 642
    Also, how will the increased HP (not AWD, just increased HP) on the 2007 MKz affect MSRP of the MKz as compared to the 2006 Zephyr?

    The new 3.5L Duratec will improve mileage over the present engine by 7% which is very significant, particularly in view of the substantial increase in power:

    http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_lincoln_zephyr_duratec_2/index.html
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    There is NO direct comparison to the Duratec 3.0 in that article. And the "as much as" language could also mean there would be 0.00001% improvement...or none at all.
  • prigglypriggly Posts: 642
    There is NO direct comparison to the Duratec 3.0 in that article. And the "as much as" language could also mean there would be 0.00001% improvement...or none at all.

    Utter rubbish. The 3.5 is directly compared to "the '06 Zephyr [which] is powered by the outdated 3.0L Duratec that generates 221 hp." The article goes on to state, "The Lima plant, which builds the 3.0L Duratec V-6, will have capacity to turn out 325,000 3.5L engines annually when it begins production later this year.

    The Duratec 35 is projected by Ford to power one in five of the company's North American vehicles by the end of the decade. Mated to the 6-speed automatic transaxle, the combination is expected to improve fuel economy as much as 7%."

    If that's not a direct comparison, I don't know what is.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    That's written in marketing speak. The "as much as" and the comparison to what vehicle configuration both leave room for this "comparison" to be to the least efficient existing vehicle drivetrain the new engine AND transmission replace....there is no direct comparison to the 3.0 engine with the SAME transmission, nor is it even clear the comparison with the 7 percent figure is referring to the 3.0 at all.
  • caliddcalidd Posts: 60
    When is the 2007 MKz expected to hit showrooms?

    And when can we expect bigger savings on the 2006 Zephyr in anticipation of the arrival of the 007's?
  • prigglypriggly Posts: 642
    there is no direct comparison to the 3.0 engine with the SAME transmission

    Then what, pray tell, is this statement referring to if it is not the present 3.0L and 6-speed transmission?

    "The Duratec 35 is projected by Ford to power one in five of the company's North American vehicles by the end of the decade. Mated to the 6-speed automatic transaxle, the combination is expected to improve fuel economy as much as 7%."

    It is patently obvious that the comparison is most certainly to the 3.0L (present) engine with the present 6-speed automatic transmission and that the new combination of 3.5L with the present 6-speed automatic transmission will result in 7% greater fuel efficiency.

    Why must some of you constantly berate the car and attempt to attach negative spin to every facet of it? Do you just hate North American automotive products? Do you think the only good products come out of Germany and Japan? Is it any wonder the U.S. has a progressively crippling trade deficit?!
  • bigtbigt Posts: 413
    "Why must some of you constantly berate the car and attempt to attach negative spin to every facet of it? Do you just hate North American automotive products? Do you think the only good products come out of Germany and Japan? Is it any wonder the U.S. has a progressively crippling trade deficit?! "

    I have been thinking the same thoughts. What is up with these folks just tearing about ever spec. Can we just enjoy the car and somewhere in the back of our mind root for the home team just a little. I own the Zephyr and love it. The car is classy looking, comfortable, the sounds system is off-the-hook, regular gas, enough power for me, rides smooth and was 2k less than the 2000 Chyrsler 300m I purchased 6 years ago. BTW: I owned a Mercedes and it stayed in the shop so much that I got rid of it!
  • prigglypriggly Posts: 642
    bigt, I think that there are just some folks who are so biased against every North American product that they have lost the ability to be objective. Basically, they are sad evidence of the success of the Japanese and German automotive Madison Avenue hype machine.

    Granted, some of the Japanese and German offerings are superb, not all, and they are most certainly not without their own particular warts. Generally, the Japanese cars are bland although for the most part reliable while the German offerings are good performers but quite unreliable and prone to high and frequent service costs.

    The Zephyr/MKZ is an excellent car by any standard and will become even more competitive with the advent of the 3.5L engine. It is an unusual combination of cachet, quality, performance, refinement and value.
  • Excellent thoughts, priggly and bigt. Thanks for saying it.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Excellent thoughts? Perhaps, but in this case misplaced. I currently own an AWD Five Hundred SEL. With the 3.0 Duratec. Am trading for the 3.5 as soon as it is available.

    Why must others ascribe to those who point out marketing speak motives they do NOT possess? Well?
  • Actually, I was mainly referring to the "let's root for the home team" attitude in the two posts just prior to mine and didn't intend to weigh in on the earlier discussions, analyze marketing speak, ascribe motives to anyone, or anything like that. Sorry if it sounded like it.

    I just get tired of so many in the automotive press waxing rapturous over Japanese and German cars, as if American cars are pieces of junk.

    As for the 500, I've always thought it a shame Ford didn't equip the 500 with a stronger engine. I'll agree with the nay sayers that the styling isn't eye catching, but it is "nice" and it's eminently more practical, likely safer and more reliable, than the other big American sedan it's always named against, the Chrysler 300C. Not having a stronger engine just gave the pundits one more thing to carp on.
  • navigator89navigator89 Posts: 1,080
    Link

    A bit of a disappointment that prices are going up, but totally expectable due to the new engine and AWD.
  • Uh oh.
    That story said:
    "Ford currently discounts each Zephyr it sells by an average of $4,342"

    I hope no one flips out.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,690
    That's only because of the lease subsidies and it's terribly misleading. If you purchase a zephyr right now you'll get $1K in rebates, not $4K.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Wrong. Our local dealers are giving up to $4300 in rebates/discounts, listed in a line in the newspaper ads, off the MSRP before any dealing is started.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,690
    Discounts off MSRP are NOT incentives. Incentives come from the factory and reduce the cost of the vehicle. Discounts off MSRP simply reduce the amount of dealer profit. Apples and oranges.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Not so. Often those discounts are supported by the manufacturer. In any event, more than $1,000 of the advertised discounts are called rebates. And it certainly fits with news reports of average per car incentives.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,690
    If the discount comes from the manufacturer, that's an incentive because it reduces the amount of profit the mfr makes. That's different from a dealer selling a car for $500 over invoice. Ford makes the same profit no matter what the dealer actually charges for it.

    If I buy a vehicle on X plan, the dealer is required to give me any and all incentives including dealer cash and customer rebates. The dealer is not allowed to keep anything that reduces their cost for the vehicle.

    The current X plan incentives for the Zephyr are $500 cash OR low financing, plus another $500 from Ford Credit. There is no other incentive from Ford if you're purchasing a Zephyr. There is no additional dealer cash. The $4K incentives comes from the heavily subsidized lease deals.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Sounds good. It is a good looking car. 3.5L will make it competitive. AWD is a plus, though FWD bias is not good, intelligent or not. >$2000 price increase is not good. As someone said, why not keep price and ditch the incentives? ALso, it is my firm belief still that the alphabet-soup name changes is a dumb idea and a waste of money. Here they have a sales winner and they're throwing away the name and must remarket a new name. Stoopid.

    I saw another Zephyr on the road recently and noticed for the first time the "thin horizontal reflector lamps within the lower fascia". Kinda cool I thought. Then I saw a Mazda 6 and whattyaknow? - same reflectors on its bumper. No differentiation there.

    Finally, the thing that keeps the Z from being a real car and not another blue-hair set Lincoln - the pathetic 'D-L' gear selector. Few people who want anything other than a comfortable appliance will buy the Z with that granny-mode shifter. Too bad, the rest of the package is fairly decent.">
  • ...the pathetic 'D-L' gear selector. Few people who want anything other than a comfortable appliance will buy the Z with that granny-mode shifter.

    Interesting observation there. I must be one of those who superficially at least only want a comfortable appliance, because I can't remember the last time I shifted my LS out of "D." For daily driving I just want to put the car in Drive and go. If I want to shift, and many days I miss the interaction of a manual, I'd have bought a stick. Are there any studies of people w/ a manumatic actually using the shift feature with any regularity? Frankly, I don't get them. Where's the fun of shifting w/o the heel-toe coordination of the clutch?

    Back to the MKZ, however, seeing the D-L gear selector when I test drove the car was disappointing. I suppose I want the illusion of some control by having more than "D-L," and I suspect the casual shopper might think it's a weird setup, walking away with some nagging thought like "something just didn't look right, but I can't put my finger on it."
  • The 1965 Buick Skylark with a Powerglide that I had in high school only had "D" and "L" and by golly if it was good enough then, it's good enough now!
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