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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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Comments

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    AWD will be optional on the MkZ, not standard.
  • caliddcalidd Posts: 60
    Does the projected $2000 price increase include the optional AWD? If it does, you'd essentially be paying extra for that option. If it does not, whoa, what a jump!
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    Based on the article I'd say yes - the $2K price jump included both the 3.5L engine and AWD.

    But this is all sheer speculation until the prices are actually published.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    With rebates and incentives where they are, I'd say the new engine and the AWD should be covered at the same price. For the cost of a 3 Series, A new G35, A Mer C-Class, or very close to a TL, I'd take one of those over the Zephyr. I think in the BASE 27 - loaded 35K market the Zephyr would be the king. As usual Lincoln is going to price itself out of the market like it did with the old Aviator. At least at that time they had the Lincoln name to ride on. They don't have such a benefit anymore. THey need to offer serious product. Have you seen the new 2008 CTS? I almost wet my pants. If that CTS starts anywhere near the 30K mark which the current one does, the market better brace for a shift.
  • 06zephyr06zephyr Posts: 32
    I dont undestand what the problem is with with D/L shifter.... When was the last time you shifted your automatic...Am i missing something here?
    The car rides smooth...the gears shift automatically very smoothly...and it handles very well...those that have it have rated it a 9.7...why do those that dont own it seem to always be bashing it..i dont understand that...seems to me that id get a better view of the car from someone that owns it then from someone that doesnt because it doesnt have an option that that individual likes..... :confuse:
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    Excuse me, but we're talking a base price of $32K with AWD. The base price of a 330xi (AWD, smaller car, smaller engine) is $39K. An Infiniti G35x (AWD, 15 more hp) has a base price of $34K. A C350 AWD sedan starts at $40K. Base price on a 2WD TL is $34K although that is fully loaded.

    Sounds very competitive to me. I don't see the problem.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    "I dont undestand what the problem is with with D/L shifter.... "

    For some people it won't be a problem. For others, the loss of control over gearing of the vehicle will be a problem. I am in that group. Since 2001 I've been driving an LS with a 5Speed manual. I want the control. Had I bought an automatic, it would have been the select shift version. IMHO, Ford has severely compromised these vehicles by giving them only a choice of D and L, where L means different things at different times apparently. I would hazard a guess that ALL of the competition offers a Select-shift type transmission, though I only know for sure that the Infiniti G35 does.

    For me, it's an unacceptable compromise, like the prop-rod hood only more important.
  • 06zephyr06zephyr Posts: 32
    I would hazard a guess that ALL of the competition offers a Select-shift type transmission, though I only know for sure that the Infiniti G35 does.
    I would love to see the stats on how many people select a car with "select-shift transmission" as opposed to one with out and then see how many got for the "CONTROL'you speak about or just because it is a fad. I seriously doubt that the typical driver buys the "select shift or paddle shift' with the idea of control.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    "I seriously doubt that the typical driver buys the "select shift or paddle shift' with the idea of control. "

    THen why would they buy it? And in many cases, it's standard rather than an option. I know people who figured out how to replace their LS shifters with the select shift and these already had the usual "D-2-1" or D-3-2-1 can't recall which.

    Furthermore, I'm sorry but this D-L business is a huge step backward. WHat is the advantage of NOT being able to control your car's gearing? Even in the 60's with 3-speed automatics they all but the bare bones cheapest allowed you to select D or 2 or 1. Now here we have a 6-speed transmission but all the driver can say is D or something less than D, called L and no one but the cars computer knows what gear will actually be selected. I think the Mazda 6 also has this D-L BS but at least you can get the Mazda with the 3.0 V6 and a manual tranny.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    Take a deep breath, George.

    The D-L shifter was a leftover from the fact that initially both the D3 and CD3 cars were only going to have a CVT. When they decided to change to a conventional transmission they decided not to change the shifter. Not sure if it was a goof or cost cutting or something else, but I'm sure it will be fixed for the 2008 models.

    Having gone from a SelectShift equipped LS to a D-L equipped Fusion I think I'm qualified to make a comparison. The last 2 years I owned the LS I rarely took it out of D. Having driven the Fusion for 6 months I can't say I've missed not having selectshift. Now don't get me wrong - I enjoyed the heck out of it the first 4 years on my LS. And if it was an available option on a car I was buying I'd certainly opt for it. But for me it wasn't a deal breaker. Then again I'm planning to get a mustang with a stick to drive on weekends.

    If you remember SelectShift was not available on the Tbird when it first came out and it was added later. It will be there.
  • "If you remember SelectShift was not available on the Tbird when it first came out and it was added later. It will be there."

    Wouldn't it be novel if Ford would fully develop a car and then introduce it?
  • THen why would they buy it? And in many cases, it's standard rather than an option.

    If it's standard, they have no choice. If it's optional and they buy it, I'd be willing to bet lunch that they bought it because it seemed cool, just as those electrolumenscent gauges are cool. To me, it's all needless gimmickry. If I want to shift, I'll buy a stick and have the fun of coordinating the clutch and shifter.

    I posed the same question on another post as 06Zephyr. I'd love to see some stats on how many people actually use their manumatic after the novelty wears off. I'd bet another lunch that it would be precious few. And, it's precious few who shift out of D.

    I do agree that the "D-L" will turn some buyers off, just because it will look odd, and they won't give any more thought to how they're driving their cars now. To the extent it does that, then it is too bad.
  • Wouldn't it be novel if Ford would fully develop a car and then introduce it?

    Hmm. Yes, that thought has crossed my mind, too.
  • Have you seen the new 2008 CTS? I almost wet my pants.

    You really get excited about this, don't you? ;)

    Would you really buy a G35 over a Zephyr? I've always thought their interiors seemed pretty cheap. IMO.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    Would you really buy a G35 over a Zephyr? I've always thought their interiors seemed pretty cheap. IMO.

    I don't like the Nissan or Infiniti interiors. They all look cheap to me. Which is disappointing because I really like the exterior and performance of the 350Z.
  • caliddcalidd Posts: 60
    Anyone know when the 007 MkZ will hit the showrooms?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Seen the G35 update for 2007? Much nicer interior. Yes, I'd definitely consider the G35 over the MKZ, because it has more power, rear wheel drive, better balance, and doesn't share its body with anything else.

    Frankly, I don't care if cars share architecture and platforms when you can get such different animals as the Ford Five Hundred and the Volvo S80 (or the Mazda6 and MKZ) out of the same one, but the MKZ will not have the status it needs at its price point until it can be better differentiated from the Milan.

    It is only a matter of time (and engine building capacity) before the Milan and Fusion offer the 3.5 (and AWD). With the Camry, Altima, Sonata, etc., offering more V6 hp already, it is inevitable. Then what will distinguish the present MKZ, besides its largely uniguw interior styling?
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    Hang in there, George, and keep demanding more than just "adequate." And, yes, the Mazda6 does have a shiftable automatic.

    Manual control of an automatic may be a fad or novelty for some but not for me. I have always utilized some manual control in specific situations - long before the term "manumatic" had even been invented.

    Yes, it is about control. A transmission cannot "see" traffic patterns, traffic lights, upcoming corners, downgrades, nor can it sense accurately what the driver is thinking.

    Both of my daily drivers are 5 speed automatics. Under light acceleration, both automatically go into 4th at about 20 MPH and OD at about 40. If the downtown traffic is fluctuating along between 0 - 25 MPH, the transmission naturally shifts between 1st, 3rd, and 4th depending upon the speed. That is unnecessary shifting as far as I am concerned. I just use 3rd for a smoother shift-free driving experience. Similarly if traffic on a street or busy freeway is fluctuating between 35 and 45 MPH, I lock out OD. No sense in upshifting to OD for just a second or two if I see the traffic is slowing down to a point where OD is no longer viable.

    If you have ever done any mountain driving, you know that you want some engine braking when going down. Manual control is great for that. When climbing, selection and holding gears is useful to avoid upshifts when slowing down for corners and downshifts when accelerating through or out of the corner.

    I realize none of the above examples are absolutely necessary - I could just leave it in drive and let the transmission shift for itself. No doubt most people do exactly that and if so, manual control is just a silly gimmick for you. For a few of us, however, manual control is a critical feature that enhances the enjoyment, engagement, and smoothness of the driving experience.

    Just D/L doesn't cut it for me but I am confident that Ford will eventually join most other manufacturers and offer some manual control of their transmissions.
  • Regardless of the rationalization of whether it's needed or not, or will ever be used, the "Powerglide" inspired D-L shifter makes an unfortunate statement about Ford Inc. and what it thinks of it's buyers.

    They are saving $4.52 per unit and you aren't smart enough to notice on a 10 minute test drive.

    It's called a false sense of economy.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    On a $35,000 car, it is just ridiculous that a manumatic is missing, even if you never use it.

    By the time you reach that price point, there are lots of expected features, that in reality make no difference for most of us. But if you are going to charge big bucks, or be an entry level "luxury" car, you must provide features that may not ever be used or appreciated all that much by most drivers, except for the knowledge that they are there. Fusion or Malibu driver are not expected to have the same amenities as Lincoln.

    Lincoln markets "luxury" that does not include items considered standard even by plebeian brands like Hyundai and Toyota. That is a problem. If you never use the feature is beside the point. Luxury csrs have always offered features that some people never use. It is part of the concept of luxury.

    How many people truly appreciate the extra small percent of quality sound gained from a $15,000 stereo system v. a $2,000 system? Not many. But some do. That's why the high priced luxury versions exist: a very few actually appreciate the small qualitative difference. The rest are saying, "I can afford this," or "I worked hard and this is my reward."

    If the Fusion and Milan offer the 3.5 and AWD like the MKZ within a year or so, yet none of them have stability control as standard, then even if the MKZ is as good as it gets with FWD mid-size sedans, it will not be perceived as such. Rational arguments like "who really uses it anyway after one or two times" really don't cut it in this league.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    Have any of you seen the new G35? I'd take it over the MKZ, no questions asked. It has more power, more luxury, and more design. I'd definitely take a 3-Series over it as well. Also add in the 2008 CTS. Especially if entry to these cars is cheaper or on par with the MKZ.

    Now some some are going to start talking about AWD which I never talked about. Think about this, what if you live in Florida. What if you have driven luxury cars before and simply don't care about AWD. Remember also that MOST LUXURY CARS ARE SOLD WITHOUT AWD. So the facts are, too most, it isn't effecting their buying decision. Lincoln needs to recognize that the MZK is not on the level of a BMW 3-Series. The BMW has all types of things going for it. I own a Mazda6 and I still wouldn't put Mazda's driving capabilities over BMW or Infiniti or Caillac. I'm sorry but they could have ruled the $27K-34K market, now they are going to get slaughtered.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Being a Florida native, I would say I prefer AWD. And I've always had RWD vehicles but considering that our summer cycle gives us afternoon showers, it's not uncommon for the stability control system to blink at me 2-3 times a day. AWD adds an extra measure of safety and drivability.

    Not everyone wants a 3-Series, not everyone wants a G35. While they are the benchmarks for most automotive journalists, not everyone has that similar taste. And for them, there's other vehicles that might possess other qualities they find endearing.

    A vehicle isn't a dud,, a loser, or get slaughtered because it doesn't lead in 0-60sec times, braking, handling, interior materials, options/toys. For the buyer, the vehicle must possess the qualities they feel are important to THEM, in a package THEY are happy with. I personally have yet to find the perfect vehicle that leads on all the above, but yet, must make concessions on the items I feel are important to me.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    ANT I agree with you that it's the total package taht counts and buyers are very different but in that 30 - 35K range you've got some real heavy hitters that offer almost any package you could ask for. I mean you have the VW Passat, the Audi A4, the G35, the Lexus IS, the Merc C-Class, the BMW 3-Series. All of this (save for the Passat) are a little more premium than the Zephyr. The only glaring advantage the Zephyr really has is the AWD and most buyers in the segment don't even buy the AWD option.

    Though the Zephyr is a great car, I think the market is saying something. I think with the almost $4K gap between MSRP and invoice, most Zephyr are going below MSRP. There have been ads in my area for $28K for a while now. I think it would be a mistake to put teh Zephyr right up against these heavy hitters. If it were more designed liek the concept inside and out, I'd have said go on and have a field day but not the way it is now. I guess time will prove the rights and wrongs on this one.
  • Seen the G35 update for 2007? Much nicer interior.

    No, but will be interested in seeing it.
  • Looks like Lincoln wants to be the incentive leader for 2006.

    They cannot start much north of 30 IMO. 30K is fine, with some sort of 4 cyl 28K model with better fuel economy would be helpful.

    Does this car have Bluetooth or voice activated controls? You know, like in a 27K Accord?
  • scootertrashscootertrash Posts: 698
    "Does this car have Bluetooth or voice activated controls? You know, like in a 27K Accord? "

    No, but it has a wicked prop-rod.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    A luxury brand shouldn't do a 4 cylinder engine. Just doesn't sit right with me, especially in their entry sedan.

    scooter, you are hilarious.
  • rolo77rolo77 Posts: 31
    WHATS THE ESTIMATED TIMES FOR THE 263 HP MKZ AWD, WILL IT
    BE BELOW 7.0 SECONDS, US MILITARY OVERSEAS FOR 6 YEARS RETURNING IN NOV 06, SO OUT OF THE LOCAL CAR LOOP FOR
    A WHILE.

    CHIEF
  • 06zephyr06zephyr Posts: 32
    I love all the criticism from all the "car experts."..Im sure you havent purchased the car and yet you still seem to knock it every chance you get. There are 57 reviews from those that own it and have rated it a 9.7. I think thats pretty damn good for a first year car. Could Ford have done other things with the car, sure they could have but it would have raised the price point. Regardless of what else Ford might have done I'm sure the "car experts" on this board would have still found faults. I would love to hear from more people who have the car. Those criticisms I would consider meaningful.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    I understand what you say there. But I am sure Ford might be just as interested in why others have NOT bought the car. When I am looking for a car (and I am), I want to hear from both camps...those who bought and why they are and aren't happy with their purchase...and those who passed it up and why they did so. Then and only then do I feel I got a more complete picture of why I should or should not consider the make and model I am looking at.
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