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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ



  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    I see much more resemblance between a Camry and ES300 than between a 2005 Explorer and 2005 Mountaineer/Aviator.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Look at the front and rear views, not just the side views.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Those do NOT look like Lincoln Zephyrs or MKZ's.

    I thought we were done with this VERY off topic discussion.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    This is a little off topic but you can build an MKX at the Lincoln sight now. Price of entry is $33K which is great. Combined with the Zephyr which sells nicely around $27K, I'd say Lincoln stands to make some good money it could invest in future MKZ body styles and the MKS. GO LINCOLN GO!!
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    I see much more resemblance between a Camry and ES300 than between a 2005 Explorer and 2005 Mountaineer/Aviator.
    I know you are kidding me, AK, but that is allowed. Thanks for an attempt to lighten things up. :)
  • daryll44daryll44 Posts: 305
    I took my '03 Mountaineer in to the dealer the other day to get some service and wandered into the showroom while waiting. I really liked the Zephyr and the Milan...I think Ford COULD have a hit on their hands if they don't shoot themselves in the foot as they often do. Changing the name of Zephyr after only a few months on the market totally hoses initial buyers and creates a bad taste right out of the gate. That being said, they COULD do a recall and rebadge those already out there and make everyone whole. The dealer had a Zeph parked next to an LS. They should have made the Zeph the successor to the LS! Because they also have hosed LS owners somewhat by not continuing the "lineage". At little common sense here could have turned two lemon situations into lemonade.

    My only other comment was that the similarity between Zephyr and Milan is can clearly see the luxury upgrades on Zephyr...but why the hell do they use that pole thing to prop up the hood on Zephyr? NO luxury car should have that Mickey Mouse thing. Again, no common sense...
  • navigator89navigator89 Posts: 1,080
    "but why the hell do they use that pole thing to prop up the hood on Zephyr?"

    I believe it's called a prop rod. Yes, most cars shouldnt be having them now. Haven't opened the hood of my Camry in a long while, but I dont believe it has that.
  • yes it sounds as if you have some issues

    my seats warm up fine and i have never lose the fan display...take the car in

    my auto set up works with no issues
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Forget the SUVs - let's compare Zephyr/Fusion with ES330/Camry. You tell me which pair is more derivative:


    Now just glance quickly at the two photos below and guess which one is the Lexus and which one is the Toyota.

  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    Not a single piece of sheetmetal is shared between the Camry and the Lexus. Not one. They do share a "corporate look," yes. But the roofs are different, the backlights are different. The overall side profile is different (do a side comparison). Yes, that corporate look is very bland. The ES330 approaches homely. No one is buying these cars for the styling.

    The 2007 versions are definitely better looking cars (and the 2007 Lexus is now based on the Avalon, not the Camry).

    On the other hand, the Ford twins share doors, doorskins, roofs, greenhouse (all glass shape and size), wheel openings, as well as the same side profile. Much better differentiation than Fusion/Milan, where the interior differences seem to be mostly finish details--and fine for starting out in a bad situation.

    Next time, maybe Lincoln can afford its own body (i.e., like TC compared to Crown Vic, Continental compared to Taurus).
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    gregg, I think you are getting into something consumers care very little about and shying away from the obvious. The Camry/ES looks more alike that the Zephyr/Fusion.

    The new ES is based on the Avalon BUT still shares a striking resemblence to the new Camry.

    Now don't get me wrong gregg because I am with you. I think the Fusion/Zephyr should be better differentiated but I have to say that Ford did a better job than Toyota did with the Camry/ES.

    It's like the Freelander. It isn't based off a Ford Escape; however, no one cares about those specifics because it looks like it is.
  • The Camry/ES do not share a single common visible piece, Indeed, they should have differentiated them more.

    Try this.
    Hold your hand up to your monitor and cover the headlights/grilles of the "Lincoln" and the Ford- Every part you see is exactly the same.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    Try this.
    Hold your hand up to your monitor and cover the headlights/grilles of the "Lincoln" and the Ford- Every part you see is exactly the same.

    Scooter, the whole hood is different too. How about you just look at the whole Camry and ES and tell me you don't see a significant similarity. Come on Scooter be fair. I am not saying that the Zephyr/Fusion are perfect examples of platform sharing. For that we'ld have to turn to a RX/Highlaner example or the new Escalade and Tahoe or a Mazda 3 and Volvo S40 or even better the MKS and Volvo S80. What I am saying is that the Camry/ES look more similar than the Zephyr/Fusion. To your lay customer and your enthusiast, that is what really matters. When someone says your Freelander looks just like a Escape, do you think it will really give you comfort to break out the supplier listing and have them look at the doors in detail. Anything you have to look at in detail to see, would not be good, because most people won't take the time to do it.
  • There is a big difference between "badge engineering" and platform sharing.

    The Fords, whether we are discussing the Zephyr, Aviator or Navigator, are the exact same body shell, same doors, same windows etc..with some diffferent cosmetic parts to decorate/disguise them.

    The Camry/ES do not share a single visible part. They have enough respect for their product and consumer to make them completely different, yet I do not see why they made them look so similar.

    The bottom line, is the Toyotas ARE different, the Fords want you to think they are different. Ford thinks you are not smart enough to know the difference.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    The Camry/ES do not share a single visible part.

    Now THAT's a ridiculous statement. If you see one of these coming down the road you have to concentrate very hard to tell the difference. If you see a Fusion, Milan or Zephyr you immediately know which one it is.

    You're ignoring the obvious and pointing out minute things that most people can't even see much less care about.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    And as I have started to concede, some people AREN'T smart enough to know the difference. I also concede that the Toyota and Lexus have some similarities.

    The photos shown, however, appear to exaggerate that. I have seen both together in the metal, and there is no way a majority of people would have any difficulty differentiating them from most angles when they are parked side by side.

    That is one of the problems with Ford thinking that a completely different face makes all the difference. If you look at the full-on side views of the Fusion twins, much of the differentiation disappears. And that's the rub: the front represents a much smaller area of the thing.

    When you park a Camry and a ES330 together, the huge headlights going well up into the fenders and hood of the Lexus look way different from the Camry's. The grill is smaller and differently shaped. The hoodlines take different routes. Yes, one can argue they should look more different, given nothing is shared between them. But still, ever since the Lexus first appeared, those two models have shared NO sheetmetal.

    There must be a reason for the extra financial investment this represents, and I think it is increased sales. Nissan tried the body panel sharing with different face and tail lights with the Nissan Maxima and Infiniti I30. Those models did OK, but real differentiation seems to sell better than the perceived or virtual kind. Toyota is on a roll, and Nissan (and most other companies but Ford) has now gone in the same direction of real differentiation. Why do it if it is not worth investment?
  • Aren't you the same guy who said the Explorer, Mountaineer and Aviator don't look at all alike?

    Ok, I'll humor you, which visible parts do the Camry/ES share?

    (Hint: Not the roof, not the glass or doors which all 3 Fords share.)
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    And AK, I believe you when say you have difficulty perceiving the Camry/ES differences, but scooter's statement is NOT ridiculous. It is true...they do not share body parts. It depends on what kind of "eye" you have.

    I perceive the differences among the triplets (as you do), but the average Joe certainly doesn't know immediately what they are. They can read the labels on the trunk of course...and that will help them figure out whether those are the new Lincoln tail light shape or is that the new Mercury shape??...neither one has any brand DNA to them yet. At least Fusion is trying to get on top of that one.
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