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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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Comments

  • bigtbigt Posts: 412
    With gas prices as they are, who even is driving these days like a bat out of hell. Makes no sense this emphasis on acceleration. Heck a GPS is more important to me these days then being able to race some kids!
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    My two cents...
    236 hp is pretty good, I think. Especially in a 3.2. I happen to like that Ford and Volvo are remaining separate in terms of most engines and platform designs. I like that the 500 (highly modified from the Volvo platform) offers a 3.0 that has less hp than the 3.2. I still think they should offer it to those customers who don't want a bigger engine.

    I don't think it is Volvo's fault that Ford took so long to develop an engine competitive with offerings from other companies. It is not just the 3.5 delay. Where is Ford's Hurricane engine? Where is the hot engine for the Focus? Why isn't there anything bigger than the 3.5 on the horizon for the 500? Where's any diesel for American Fords? Why are the hybrid models so far behind Toyota and Honda's offerings? Why can't they put something competitive in the Town Car?

    The Zephyr will now get the 3.5, but what will be offered above that and when? The Fusion will soon need the 3.5 to be competitive (the Escape as well), and so how will the MTZ stand out? Volvo's I6 and V8 on its flagship seems a good range by comparison.
  • rj123456rj123456 Posts: 128
    I have the THX stereo (but no nav). The tuner button also has a icon on it that looks like a phone. Any idea what that is for?
  • Yeah the blue pearl color looking Zephyr is really nice but I can find a color online? Do you know where I can a find of the blue/purple lookng Zephyr? But yeah I see to many Toyotas on the road, and only a few Zephyrs. But I'll pray about it. Thanks and God Bless.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Personally, I wouldn't bother God about such a superficial thing as my choice of a near luxury sedan...but then maybe that's just me. God bless you too.
  • Well I see God as a Father I try to talk to him about everything :)))))) But thanks for the choice, this is really a hard decision. greg if you had to choose which one would you get? Both are great cars. God Bless
  • prigglypriggly Posts: 642
    I Peter 5:7

    I would choose the Oxford White Clearcoat with Dark Charcoal leather. Magnificent color combination!
  • bigtbigt Posts: 412
    Chief, did you see any new/unique color combos for the 07?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    I'd get the MTZ. The Avalon is an awfully good vehicle, and has more toys than the Lincoln, but it is even more an old guys' car than the MTZ...and it is a bit bigger than I like.
  • rolo77rolo77 Posts: 31
    Sorry, the overseas dealer stated most all new Specs should
    be on the July disk, so I can do a complete build for a MKZ 07, I will update all Specs on this site, if they become available in July

    Chief
  • Yeah but I was trying to stay under $30,000, the mtz is about 33k right?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,669
    MTZ??? I guess this new naming scheme isn't catching on. Did you mean MKZ?
  • turbo/Supercharging is a cheap and inferrior way of getting engines performance levels up. Don't get me wrong, its not bad that the 3.2 will have boost, but imagine what would happen is the toyotas had boost? 400hp v6? Its hapenning to the nissan.

    The point is, that boost is good in a sports car, but to make your engine turbo JUST TO KEEP IT competetive? Thats not good news.

    No one is driving like a bat out of hell, but if i can get 50hp more for the same money than that will HEAVILY influence my descision. 10hp i can undrstand, but 50? That smells bad.

    Also, don't forget that the toyota engines get close to of above 30mpg hyway while still delivering close to 300hp. In this age, Ford should have collaborated with volvo, released a 300hp VVT DI engine, and finally lead the competition.

    ANT, engine "exclusivness" takes second place to bieng able to compete.

    I know your defending it, and i understand why, but Ford got licked this time, by themselves. I do not think many people at lease here in the US will choose a V6 volvo that gets mid 90's power levels when for the same fuel economy they can bet 50 more hp in a toyota (and now GM and even some other Fords).

    Unless they make that 3.2 make 270 hp without steroids, then this engine was a colossal waste of time and money, no matter how 'smooth' it is.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    I wouldn't want a Toyota, or any other FWD vehicle with a 400HP V6. I can tell you, the Camry chassis can't handle power past 300HP according to the rigidity. If so, the result is a body/engine that flex, and can actually soften the whole platform making it literally unsafe.

    I personally would have preferred the Yamaha 4.4L on something like an S60...reality is, the weight over the front wheel would create a sloppy handler. Boosting resolves those issues, without having to compensate in other ways.

    Yes, for must less money there's other like Nissan and Toyota, but for whatever "X X X" reasons, people will not choose them. It's all about their personal taste and what their requirements are.

    I do understand your frustration, I too wish that everything had massive engines under the hood. Unfortunately Ford is putting out many wildfires at the moment, an unfair exchange rate with foreign rivals, UAW, etc. And for Volvo, at this time, it's needs, it's customers, it's allowance, it's purpose, the 3.2L is what will work, with an "R" boosted model later.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Where is Ford's Hurricane engine?
    It's debuting in the next F-series coming up in 2008.

    Where is the hot engine for the Focus?
    Which engine would that be?

    Why isn't there anything bigger than the 3.5 on the horizon for the 500?
    The 3.5L can be bore/stroked to 3.8/4.0 easily...BUT, why increase weight when the 3.5L with DI can accomplish it in a simpler fashion.

    Where's any diesel for American Fords?
    There's the Powerstroke Diesel that have existed for years on the F-series. There's a larger one coming up soon. As for vehicles, Ford has a Diesel team studying the posibility of using it in sedans provided current emmission standards are phased in.

    Why are the hybrid models so far behind Toyota and Honda's offerings?
    The supplier (Sanyo-which Toyota uses as well and favors supplying them over Ford) can't produce enough battery packs, therefore they are tapped out. Ford is seeking other alternatives here in the U.S.

    Why can't they put something competitive in the Town Car?
    Do you really want to increase the rate of store-front accidents caused by grannies with 350HP on tap who claimed the car leaped and lost control?....

    Although I agree, and have been frustrated about that. Slamming a 300HP 4.6L in there is long overdo. But that platform won't be around for long...
  • If Lincoln wants to be perceived as a player in the near-luxury class segment with the MKZ, a news report on the ABC Evening News tonight touting the importance of ESC may force the issue. In this competitive market, perceptions are important. I can see now the buyer who heretofore hadn't heard or cared about ESC asking about it when car shopping and leaving when told it's not available.

    While it may be a worthwhile safety feature, especially for those drivers distracted by juggling their Big Mac and their mobile phone, the lack of it probably wouldn't be a make or break for me. But I'm wondering, is ESC going to at least be offered on the '07 MKZ?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    In a word, no.

    I had hopes for Mark Fields. All he has done of a positive note was kickstart the Hurricane engine program again. Whoever made the decision to suspend it should be fired.

    While GM is speeding up introductions, in some cases by as much as a year, Ford is using their troubles to go back to the drawing board, delaying some introductions by as much as two years. How does such ineptness get to run big companies?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,669
    Fields needs to be making long term changes, not short term fixes. What little we've seen so far seems promising.

    The problem is that in some cases Ford either doesn't have anything on the drawing board (B car e.g.) or what they have just isn't right, so they don't have much choice other than to start over. Ford can't afford to do it wrong - they have to get it right even if it means waiting.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    I beg to differ. Ford does not know how to get it right. They have some some clues, guesses, and some consumer research (which to date hasn't been as useful as they would have liked). Nothing they are planning is a sure winner, and their track record of knowing winners beforehand is at best spotty.

    Like other car companies, Ford needs to get quality stuff out there and see if it takes. If it doesn't, they need other ideas waiting in the wings. I'd sure hate to see them delay the B car, for example, until 2010, and then either find that the marketplace had moved on, or the design itself receive a luikewarm reception.
  • On the other hand, look at the damage to reputation done by introducing the Five Hundred and the Zephyr: horsepower generally bashed by the car mags (both) and with bland styling (Five Hundred - matter of taste, that, - I like the styling) and no ESC (Zephyr). They can drop in more horsepower, tweak the styling, and add the goodies, but consumers' perceptions will have been made.

    Maybe it is better to wait a couple of years to get the product right, or more so, before introduction. It's kind of a case of "darned if you do; darned if you don't."
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    You do have a point, but why oh why does Ford always seem to need more time than anyone else to "get the thing right?"

    The Chrysler 300 has been out for several years now, and with several engine choices. The Chevy Cobalt is now old news, but again, was issued with the hot engine already on the option sheet. Both Chrysler and GM are filling the car mags with new or proposed models. They moved the large SUV introductions up, and now have moved the new pickups intro up by a year. Pontiac has the Solstice, G6 coupe and convertible out in the same year, with a new Grand Prix and GTO models planned. Saturn has a whole slew of new models arriving now or very soon. Cadillac keeps upping the ante. Jeep has four new models all at once, and nothing in its line-up is old. I am not even addressing the Koreans and Japanese who seem to be able to turn out new models and updates faster than anyone can keep track.

    Do they all succeed? No. But Ford has had a longstanding problem of sitting back on its haunches following Job 1. Especially in the case of a winner. Look how far the Town Car and Taurus and Explorer and Ranger have fallen.

    Now I see there is no update at all planned for the Mustang until 2009. Their track record says it will be half-hearted, even as the Camaro and Challenger will both be in showrooms.

    The Mustang is a great design, but there are limitless ways it could be updated and still keep its Mustang-ness. Look at the Camaro proposal. It looks like a Camaro, but is obviously a new car and new design--not retro. The next Mustang could do the same thing: retain its Mustang-ness while being completely new.

    Lincoln could also do that with its big sedans. It could have developed/refined some of the concept cars it issued earlier this decade. What we got is the Zephyr/MTZ. What in heck is MTZ-ness when they finally get around to updating its generic look???
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    ANT, you sound exactly like Ford when it introduced the 500 with a measle 205hp. They said it was satisfactory for it target customer and it wasn't going to get in a HP war with Toyota. As history has taught us, the 500 got beaten over and over and over and over in the media and then coincidentally in sales while the Avalon was elevated to sitting on God's left hand.

    Now you are again TELLING us that 232hp is adequate given Volvo's buyers and the population is ASKING for more power. Volvo wants the S40 to grow to be a real 3-Series competitor. Volvo wants to compete in the big leagues. Volvo's safety status as mentioned by an article recently isn't as unique as it used to be since everyone is focusing on safety now in days. America likes power and speed. Look at the Nissan Altima. It sold very well. The interior was horrible, reliability wasn't that great, it had pretty good looks, and a killer VQ engine though. Come on ANT, I think Ford really needs to stop TELLING, and just start LISTENING. Give the consumer what they want. The Fusion is selling well, but is there any doubt it would sell better with a more powerful engine? Many buyers do a lot of reading now-in-days before purchasing a car. Information is at an all time high. When they look to comparison tests, the best way to gage their most likely top candidates, it isn't good to have your cars keep getting panned as "slow" even if their performance is "adequate". America loves speed.
  • theman123theman123 Posts: 170
    ANT, you sound exactly like Ford when it introduced the 500 with a measle 205hp. They said it was satisfactory for it target customer and it wasn't going to get in a HP war with Toyota. As history has taught us, the 500 got beaten over and over and over and over in the media and then coincidentally in sales while the Avalon was elevated to sitting on God's left hand.

    Now you are again TELLING us that 232hp is adequate given Volvo's buyers and the population is ASKING for more power. Volvo wants the S40 to grow to be a real 3-Series competitor. Volvo wants to compete in the big leagues. Volvo's safety status as mentioned by an article recently isn't as unique as it used to be since everyone is focusing on safety now in days. America likes power and speed. Look at the Nissan Altima. It sold very well. The interior was horrible, reliability wasn't that great, it had pretty good looks, and a killer VQ engine though. Come on ANT, I think Ford really needs to stop TELLING, and just start LISTENING. Give the consumer what they want. The Fusion is selling well, but is there any doubt it would sell better with a more powerful engine? Many buyers do a lot of reading now-in-days before purchasing a car. Information is at an all time high. When they look to comparison tests, the best way to gage their most likely top candidates, it isn't good to have your cars keep getting panned as "slow" even if their performance is "adequate". America loves speed.


    I'm Sorry driverdm I completely disagree with you. If Americans Love speed then how in the world can Toyota sell a single car ? Also, if Americans Love speed why in the world are people buying that damn toaster on 4 wheels the Scion XB that has a top speed of 70 MPH because it's a brick? America is much more diversified than that. To be real with you, HP and speed are just bragging rights and something that you'll never really enjoy. Tell me, one place in America were you can drive 100 + on the street for a good period of time and 1 not get a speeding ticket or 2 kill somebody ?

    Also, using the 500 for example is a horrible reference compared to the Avalon. Oh so your saying, the Avalon is selling because it's fast !?!? LOL, Oh yeah I heard the Avalon can out run a Shelby GT500 Mustang in the quarter mile LOL :P
    The real reason the 500 is struggling is becuase 1 it's a Ford which in America stands for Fix Or Repair Daily 2 the style is way to european and to understated and 3 it certainly is not fast.

    Anyway, I think that the 3.2 236Hp engine is not crap. Ford can only build so many 3.5 V6 engines and most of them are going into the Edge, MKX and the MKZ next year. Before it's said and done with I wouldn't be surprised if the 3.5 V6 made it into the Fusion/Milan as well. So they would not be able to make enough for everybody. So I think you've watch a little to much Fast and the Furious. America is much more diversfied than the quater mile drag strip. I think the 3.2 engine is a good engine. What Ford really needs to do, is drop that I-5 they have in the Volvo S40 into the American Ford Focus to really give that ST model some kick. So it can really challenge the Honda Civic SI with 197 Hp and 137 P/torque. Thats just me.
    :D
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Yes, the 500 could have used more power/wider choice of powerplants. However, even if it had been introduced with the 3.5 (as it should have been), it still would not be tearing up the sales charts. It is a wonderful appliance, but has no curb appeal. The "European style" it is often described as having is a bad imitation of European style. (If the Audi A6 looked that dull, Audi would be hurting too.) When you see the 500 at a auto show, it is a car most people walk by without a second glance.

    The MTZ is also fairly dull, but comes off sexy as hell by comparison with the 500.
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Posts: 396
    Gregg. not for nothing and take this in the best way possible, you appear to have a fixation with the letter "T" when describing the 2007 Lincoln replacement name for the Zephyr, the "Mark Z" known as the MKZ :)
    Maybe I'm missing something?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,669
    MKZ, not MTZ.

    The 500/Montego may not be sexy but they took 3rd and 1st place respectively in Auto Pacific's ideal car ratings.

    2006 Ideal Vehicle Awards

    The top-rated vehicle and top-rated car is the Mercury Montego in the Large Car/Luxury Car category. In fact, Ford Motor Company sweeps the first three positions overall with the Ford Crown Victoria and Ford Five Hundred in second and third place.
  • Design might be boring, but so is toyota's. Forbs broblem was not enough power, a fwe missing bells and whistles. They are addressing that now, and when the 3.5 does comeinto a redesigned 500, it should take the Avalon by storm... unless toyota redesigns it again.

    Either way, the 500 is a good car, just not a finished one. Good enough for most people, I like the car too. Sometimes the power is enough, sometimes its not. But one look at an avalon will make you very upset.

    Now, what they ahould do sometime soon is introduce a lincoln coupe, somehow that seems less likely, and if Ford does up update the mustang (liek give its 4.6L DI or something) then when the camaro comes out the mustang will be so dead its not even funny. People will buy it, but only for a discount.

    And that base engine should really give you better economy. Meybe Ford could wake up and reduce the Cobras price by a few grand and make the engine out of allumium, giving the car a better weight balance and improving accelleration numbers. What a creat car, with with 500hp i think 4.5 to 60 is a bit too much.

    Still an amazing car, though, gota give credit to ford for taking the lead with this when the other guys were dropping out of the segment. That would be my number 1 reason for getting one - assuming it was competetive with the camaro.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,669
    The base engine is an older Ford truck engine, designed for low end torque, not fuel economy. The 3.5L will be great, whenever it shows up.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    You catch that every time! Sharp eye, buckwheat. What's more amazing is the number who don't see the typo.

    The whole thing is stupid. If it is Mark Z, then call it that. If it is MKZ, then it is Em Kay Zee. Ford executives can say Mark Z all they want to "MKZ," but when someone reads the trunk label letters, I bet it will slowly but surely become an Em Kay Zee in the public parlance.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Horsepower doesn't sell cars, majority of Accord/Camry's are 4 cylinder versions, we've all discussed this already.

    And no matter how much power a vehicle has, it's numerous other items that make the vehicle. To address one issue, in relationg to numerous others, doesn't make good business. In case of the Titan...Nissan thought power was going to bring them in, and it did, but fell short of sales target, reliabiility has been abysmal, and I'm willing to bet mnany won't return to a Nissan product.

    If we would have waited for the 500 to debut with the 3.5L, then the argument becomes (it's dated, why did they take so long, didnt they think of this). Coupled with, lost sales, lost production, idled workers etc. NOT good business sense. As it is, the 500 was a totally new vehicle released in a totally renovated flexible plant. And in it's first year, it was in the top 3 in initial quality by JDPower.

    That vehicles shortcoming will be addressed with next years restyle. Ford is busy putting out many fires at the same time, some require more attention than others.
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