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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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Comments

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,690
    Don't celebrate yet. Apparently they're all on hold and won't ship for another week or two.
  • bigtbigt Posts: 413
    Is that the Vista Roof supplier problem holding them up?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    The vista roof is one of the holdups in getting them to showrooms now. It is also one of the reasons the thing is so porky...4500+ lbs for a compact size SUV? Takes the wind out of that 3.5...
  • Man, that's one GOOD looking front end!

    Seriously, I for one like it.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Which front end? Lost the reference. Curious, as I cannot think of a current Lincoln front end that merits much praise, or one that stands out when so many other makes are becoming so much more bold with the schnozzes.
  • Hey Everybody, Edmunds finally did a first test drive of the Lincoln MKZ and they seem pretty impressed by it. What do you think ???
    First Drive 2007 MKZ
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    It certainly is not an unqualified endorsement. More like saying it's a much better effort than the rushed-to-market-too-soon Zephyr. That ole D-L shifter comes up every time,doesn't it? And the lack of stability control is an error in a car of this class. Should be standard.
  • I was responding to heyjewel's statement aobut an UGLY front end, which followed some photos of the MKX, so I ment to say I liked the front end of the MKX.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    So do I. I don't much like the rest of it, because the remainder is only the body panels of the Ford Edge, a careful effort at best.

    The Aviator concept really looked like a Lincoln. The MKX is just a dolled up Ford with one of many alleged Lincoln-esque grills. The grill on the Aviator concept was actually more Lincoln and less AMC, but the grill of the MKX is definitely its selling point. Plus the interior is not as cheap looking as that in the Edge.

    But now Lincoln has to decide on a grill direction. The waterfall is old, tired and now re-done better by Mercury. The MKS/MKZ grill thing is ok, but rather boring in this day of more in-yer-face grills. The Navi and MKX grills are yet two more different themes. If Lincoln is going to gain any traction as a luxury ride, it should be recognizable regardless of the model. You don't see BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Cadillac, Volvo, Mazda, etc., etc. using a myriad of grill themes, but rather variations on one theme.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    gregg;

    Funny, I like the rear treatment on the X a lot. The side view, in pix, is OK but that grille just grates on me.

    ANT said (and where the heck IS ANT anyway) that the thinkin at Lincoln now is waterfall grilles for cars and egg crate grilles for SUVs. How's that for thinkin?

    Cant get an X or Edge til almost Xmas time now I hear. By then, all the advertising money for it will be used up and no one's even seen one yet!
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    The rear end isn't bad, but it is a cop-out. Rather than giving the MKX its own hatch shape and tailights, Ford cheaped out and simply used the Edge styling and hatch, and then put a light bar across the rear to join the same shaped taillights of the Edge into one long taillight. It is an old badge engineering trick, and to me it looks tired. Especially given that no other Lincoln uses that "all across the back" style.

    From the side, the thing is "straight Edge." No way to tell the difference at a glance, unless you memorize the different wheels they use.

    The reviews of both these late-to-the-party entries have been mediocre. They were supposed to be at the head of their class for acceleration, but no one counted on them being so porky for small CUVs. Handling is so-so...apparently the Lincoln has an overall better feel. The Lincoln has the better interior and is a bit quieter, as it should be. However, the Ford should have been issued with the MKX refinements and the MKX upgraded from there. The 2007 Hyundai Santa Fe is a better vehicle than the Edge as far as refinement and finish, and it costs considerably less.

    The styling is tasteful, but clearly derivative and bordering on plain. They certainly are better looking as compared to CUVs in general than the dull, dull 500 is compared to its classmates--so that's a good thing. The Aviator would have been a real standout. The MKX will be lost in the crowd.

    Oh, well. Lincoln looks more now like it is coming back than leaving. They still build nothing I want to buy (and certainly not the MKZ...the Milan already has AWD and will soon get the 3.5 and it is at least as attractive as the MKZ).

    But what is Ford ever going to do if they ever issue a hot seller again? The F150 can be built in vast quantities, but what other model do they have the build capacity to issue in Camry or Accord numbers? Yes, it is unlikely to happen to Ford again (unless they start building Fords of Europe here). But it is something for them to at least dream about.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Just spoke to my Lincoln salesperson. This is who ordered my LS for me in 2001 and I also bought Nav from in 04. Salesperson's been driving LS for a few years. Was thinking of selling LS to get mkx. Salesperson thought it was Volvo based. I said no it's Mazda-based. Do I know more than the salesperson? Or am I wrong. Saleperson who sells the cars said would NEVER buy a MKZ because it's a Mazda. Now may feel same way about MKX. Then salesperson said would wait for the S with the V8. I had to be the bearer of bad news on that too - No V8. Big sigh on other end of phone. So, Lincoln can't even sell to their own salespeople (at least one of em) with these vehicles.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,690
    And if you hadn't told the salesperson it was based on a Mazda platform he/she would have never known the difference and would have judged the vehicle on it's own merits without prejudice.

    I just don't understand why it's an inferior platform just because it started out life as a Mazda? It was modified for the Fusion/MkZ and modified again for the Edge/MKX.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    You are right that the prejudice is kind of silly. However, the MKS and 500, which happen to be Volvo based, are turly different cars using the same architecture. The Fusion/MKZ (or the Edge/MKX) are not different cars in the same vein, but rather more like differing trim levels on the same vehicle. Hopefully, Lincoln will not be marketing mere dressed up Fords in a few more years (regardless of whether that Ford began as a Volvo or a Mazda).
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    So, you're saying a Mazda platform is just as good as a Volvo platform?

    And, where do you draw the line?

    If a Lincoln based on a Mazda is OK, how about a Lincoln based on a Kia? Or how about a Chinese Lincoln? That probably isn't out of the question either.

    If they're going to cop out and not build an American Lincoln, then my second choice would be a Jaguar based Lincoln. I guess Volvo would come next. Even a Lincoln based on a Ford is more palatable, at least to me, to a Lincoln based on a Ford based on a Mazda.

    Look at what Cadillac and Chrysler are doing. That's what Lincoln should be doing. I know I know, give em time. Wait til 2012 0r 2015. By then, I'll be ready for a Town Car:>)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,690
    Why do you assume that an American engineered platform would be any better than the Mazda derived CD3 platform? What is it that makes it inferior? I think you just don't like it because it's FWD and it has a japanese name on it. Nothing wrong with that, if that's your opinion. But that doesn't make it a bad platform.

    If they produced the exact same platform but said it was developed in America - what would you say?
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    I'd say hooray, we can still design something besides paper clips, and it would be on my list of cars to test drive. Ooops - unless it was made in Mexico or China. Canada I'll put up with cause they're like an American suburb really. A cold one though.
  • bigtbigt Posts: 413
    All I can say is that in the past two days I had 3 folks make me roll down the window to discuss how much they liked my Zephyr! I had it detailed recently and the Merlot color really shines. I saw the 07 Ford 500 today and I actually liked the way it looked.

    I am about to get me a fully loaded MKZ so I guess that makes me a fan. Hey it is December and at least we all have a car and choices. We could be riding Bicycles in the Ardeness Forest through the snow in 1944 as a Volksgrendiar!
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    I see what you are saying. Still, the platform is one thing, and what is done with it is another. Mazda built the Millenia back in the 90s that was competitive engineering-wise with Lexus. (Of course I am favorably prejudiced, having owned 2 of them with the Miller cycle engine.) I hope it never happens, but Lincoln could certainly build a credible front driver off the Hyundai Azera. The platform can be refined, beefed up, quieted, tuned...depends on how much $$$ the manufacturer wants to put into individualizing it.

    And no, the Chinese Lincoln is not out of the question. We may see one long before any of us would predict.

    The sad thing is at this point, there is no real Lincoln platform at all. Cadillac has come close, but never sunk this low. Up until 1998, the Town Car was enough different underneath from the Vic/Marquis identical twins as to be its own platform or sub-platform. Not any more.

    If Ford had the know-how to do some platform sharing between Jaguar and Lincoln and make it work moneywise, that would be my preference too. But apparently Lincoln is perceived as not worthy of PAG status, or even an identifiable brand identity. If the powers that be had respected its history and former status, the Continental Concept would have replaced the Town Car two years ago already.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    I like the way the Milan looks in red too. Put the two together (MKZ, Milan) and it is hard to say which one is the better looking.

    And too bad more people don't see the 500 as you do. If they did, sales would not be down as far as they've gone.
  • bigtbigt Posts: 413
    Ok, today I joined another phase of Lincoln owenership. I just crashed my Zephyr. Not proud of it but ran into a BMW stopped. About 15-25 mph, airbag deployment. No D or D but clearly my fault, Got a warning, bad merge area. So lets see what the cost will be. On the day I was suppose to trade up to the MKZ. So how lucky are you! Makes all our arguments seem silly. Lots of cuts on my wrist due to sheiding the airbag. But Ok and the other guy minor. Now lets play the lottery, the other guy I served in the military with, no contact in 20 years. He will realize this later tonight or tomorrow. Yikes!
  • Wow, that stinks!
    Glad to hear you're okay. It's great how safe new cars are.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    If you think you might have only been going around 15 mph, the air bag shouldn't have gone off.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    He said 15-25. What is your point? You tryin to make him wrong? Trying to make the car wrong? What IS your point?
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Glad you're both OK. And what a strange coincidence that you know the guy. Next, you should delete your post where you admit fault. Just in case. There are lawyers lurking everywhere :>)
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Wow! People have lauded the MKZ for it's interior. I haven't heard any similar praise for the Fusion or the Mercury. Well, they better get back to the drawing board. Check out the interior of the 2008 Chevy Malibu:

    http://www.thegmsource.com/index.php?categoryid=3&p17_sectionid=21&p17_imageid=2- - 48

    Oh, and thankfully they redisgned the sorry exterior as well and it looks nice. I think I might be becoming a GM fan. They look like they FINALLY have a clue.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,690
    Please tell me you're joking about the Malibu interior.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    I'm curious...what don't you like about it? Unlike the current Malibu, this interior "flows," does not have large gaps and rough materials, has a nicely finished console (with covered up holder), and is trimmed like they truly care how it looks and feels. So, what's your critique? Thanks.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Are you kidding me? It's beautiful. Compare it to the kiddy-car ugly interior of the Edge just for example. I dont wanna go overboard because this is the only picture I've seen and I'l like to see the guages, but this interior is WAYYYYY beter than the Fusion or Milan. It's got style, it flows like gregg said, it's a sharp two-tone, has a nice looking center stack rather than the black plastic parts-bin stack in just about every Ford product.
    Come on, Alan, quit drinking the Kool-Aid and give credit where it's due. And while you're at it, count the number of positions on the shifter :>)

    If this works,
    Compare this:
    image

    to this:
    image
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