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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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Comments

  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    You do have a point, but why oh why does Ford always seem to need more time than anyone else to "get the thing right?"

    The Chrysler 300 has been out for several years now, and with several engine choices. The Chevy Cobalt is now old news, but again, was issued with the hot engine already on the option sheet. Both Chrysler and GM are filling the car mags with new or proposed models. They moved the large SUV introductions up, and now have moved the new pickups intro up by a year. Pontiac has the Solstice, G6 coupe and convertible out in the same year, with a new Grand Prix and GTO models planned. Saturn has a whole slew of new models arriving now or very soon. Cadillac keeps upping the ante. Jeep has four new models all at once, and nothing in its line-up is old. I am not even addressing the Koreans and Japanese who seem to be able to turn out new models and updates faster than anyone can keep track.

    Do they all succeed? No. But Ford has had a longstanding problem of sitting back on its haunches following Job 1. Especially in the case of a winner. Look how far the Town Car and Taurus and Explorer and Ranger have fallen.

    Now I see there is no update at all planned for the Mustang until 2009. Their track record says it will be half-hearted, even as the Camaro and Challenger will both be in showrooms.

    The Mustang is a great design, but there are limitless ways it could be updated and still keep its Mustang-ness. Look at the Camaro proposal. It looks like a Camaro, but is obviously a new car and new design--not retro. The next Mustang could do the same thing: retain its Mustang-ness while being completely new.

    Lincoln could also do that with its big sedans. It could have developed/refined some of the concept cars it issued earlier this decade. What we got is the Zephyr/MTZ. What in heck is MTZ-ness when they finally get around to updating its generic look???
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    ANT, you sound exactly like Ford when it introduced the 500 with a measle 205hp. They said it was satisfactory for it target customer and it wasn't going to get in a HP war with Toyota. As history has taught us, the 500 got beaten over and over and over and over in the media and then coincidentally in sales while the Avalon was elevated to sitting on God's left hand.

    Now you are again TELLING us that 232hp is adequate given Volvo's buyers and the population is ASKING for more power. Volvo wants the S40 to grow to be a real 3-Series competitor. Volvo wants to compete in the big leagues. Volvo's safety status as mentioned by an article recently isn't as unique as it used to be since everyone is focusing on safety now in days. America likes power and speed. Look at the Nissan Altima. It sold very well. The interior was horrible, reliability wasn't that great, it had pretty good looks, and a killer VQ engine though. Come on ANT, I think Ford really needs to stop TELLING, and just start LISTENING. Give the consumer what they want. The Fusion is selling well, but is there any doubt it would sell better with a more powerful engine? Many buyers do a lot of reading now-in-days before purchasing a car. Information is at an all time high. When they look to comparison tests, the best way to gage their most likely top candidates, it isn't good to have your cars keep getting panned as "slow" even if their performance is "adequate". America loves speed.
  • theman123theman123 Posts: 170
    ANT, you sound exactly like Ford when it introduced the 500 with a measle 205hp. They said it was satisfactory for it target customer and it wasn't going to get in a HP war with Toyota. As history has taught us, the 500 got beaten over and over and over and over in the media and then coincidentally in sales while the Avalon was elevated to sitting on God's left hand.

    Now you are again TELLING us that 232hp is adequate given Volvo's buyers and the population is ASKING for more power. Volvo wants the S40 to grow to be a real 3-Series competitor. Volvo wants to compete in the big leagues. Volvo's safety status as mentioned by an article recently isn't as unique as it used to be since everyone is focusing on safety now in days. America likes power and speed. Look at the Nissan Altima. It sold very well. The interior was horrible, reliability wasn't that great, it had pretty good looks, and a killer VQ engine though. Come on ANT, I think Ford really needs to stop TELLING, and just start LISTENING. Give the consumer what they want. The Fusion is selling well, but is there any doubt it would sell better with a more powerful engine? Many buyers do a lot of reading now-in-days before purchasing a car. Information is at an all time high. When they look to comparison tests, the best way to gage their most likely top candidates, it isn't good to have your cars keep getting panned as "slow" even if their performance is "adequate". America loves speed.


    I'm Sorry driverdm I completely disagree with you. If Americans Love speed then how in the world can Toyota sell a single car ? Also, if Americans Love speed why in the world are people buying that damn toaster on 4 wheels the Scion XB that has a top speed of 70 MPH because it's a brick? America is much more diversified than that. To be real with you, HP and speed are just bragging rights and something that you'll never really enjoy. Tell me, one place in America were you can drive 100 + on the street for a good period of time and 1 not get a speeding ticket or 2 kill somebody ?

    Also, using the 500 for example is a horrible reference compared to the Avalon. Oh so your saying, the Avalon is selling because it's fast !?!? LOL, Oh yeah I heard the Avalon can out run a Shelby GT500 Mustang in the quarter mile LOL :P
    The real reason the 500 is struggling is becuase 1 it's a Ford which in America stands for Fix Or Repair Daily 2 the style is way to european and to understated and 3 it certainly is not fast.

    Anyway, I think that the 3.2 236Hp engine is not crap. Ford can only build so many 3.5 V6 engines and most of them are going into the Edge, MKX and the MKZ next year. Before it's said and done with I wouldn't be surprised if the 3.5 V6 made it into the Fusion/Milan as well. So they would not be able to make enough for everybody. So I think you've watch a little to much Fast and the Furious. America is much more diversfied than the quater mile drag strip. I think the 3.2 engine is a good engine. What Ford really needs to do, is drop that I-5 they have in the Volvo S40 into the American Ford Focus to really give that ST model some kick. So it can really challenge the Honda Civic SI with 197 Hp and 137 P/torque. Thats just me.
    :D
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    Yes, the 500 could have used more power/wider choice of powerplants. However, even if it had been introduced with the 3.5 (as it should have been), it still would not be tearing up the sales charts. It is a wonderful appliance, but has no curb appeal. The "European style" it is often described as having is a bad imitation of European style. (If the Audi A6 looked that dull, Audi would be hurting too.) When you see the 500 at a auto show, it is a car most people walk by without a second glance.

    The MTZ is also fairly dull, but comes off sexy as hell by comparison with the 500.
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Posts: 396
    Gregg. not for nothing and take this in the best way possible, you appear to have a fixation with the letter "T" when describing the 2007 Lincoln replacement name for the Zephyr, the "Mark Z" known as the MKZ :)
    Maybe I'm missing something?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    MKZ, not MTZ.

    The 500/Montego may not be sexy but they took 3rd and 1st place respectively in Auto Pacific's ideal car ratings.

    2006 Ideal Vehicle Awards

    The top-rated vehicle and top-rated car is the Mercury Montego in the Large Car/Luxury Car category. In fact, Ford Motor Company sweeps the first three positions overall with the Ford Crown Victoria and Ford Five Hundred in second and third place.
  • Design might be boring, but so is toyota's. Forbs broblem was not enough power, a fwe missing bells and whistles. They are addressing that now, and when the 3.5 does comeinto a redesigned 500, it should take the Avalon by storm... unless toyota redesigns it again.

    Either way, the 500 is a good car, just not a finished one. Good enough for most people, I like the car too. Sometimes the power is enough, sometimes its not. But one look at an avalon will make you very upset.

    Now, what they ahould do sometime soon is introduce a lincoln coupe, somehow that seems less likely, and if Ford does up update the mustang (liek give its 4.6L DI or something) then when the camaro comes out the mustang will be so dead its not even funny. People will buy it, but only for a discount.

    And that base engine should really give you better economy. Meybe Ford could wake up and reduce the Cobras price by a few grand and make the engine out of allumium, giving the car a better weight balance and improving accelleration numbers. What a creat car, with with 500hp i think 4.5 to 60 is a bit too much.

    Still an amazing car, though, gota give credit to ford for taking the lead with this when the other guys were dropping out of the segment. That would be my number 1 reason for getting one - assuming it was competetive with the camaro.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    The base engine is an older Ford truck engine, designed for low end torque, not fuel economy. The 3.5L will be great, whenever it shows up.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    You catch that every time! Sharp eye, buckwheat. What's more amazing is the number who don't see the typo.

    The whole thing is stupid. If it is Mark Z, then call it that. If it is MKZ, then it is Em Kay Zee. Ford executives can say Mark Z all they want to "MKZ," but when someone reads the trunk label letters, I bet it will slowly but surely become an Em Kay Zee in the public parlance.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Horsepower doesn't sell cars, majority of Accord/Camry's are 4 cylinder versions, we've all discussed this already.

    And no matter how much power a vehicle has, it's numerous other items that make the vehicle. To address one issue, in relationg to numerous others, doesn't make good business. In case of the Titan...Nissan thought power was going to bring them in, and it did, but fell short of sales target, reliabiility has been abysmal, and I'm willing to bet mnany won't return to a Nissan product.

    If we would have waited for the 500 to debut with the 3.5L, then the argument becomes (it's dated, why did they take so long, didnt they think of this). Coupled with, lost sales, lost production, idled workers etc. NOT good business sense. As it is, the 500 was a totally new vehicle released in a totally renovated flexible plant. And in it's first year, it was in the top 3 in initial quality by JDPower.

    That vehicles shortcoming will be addressed with next years restyle. Ford is busy putting out many fires at the same time, some require more attention than others.
  • tiger16tiger16 Posts: 54
    I currently own a 2006 Zephyr. I'm very pleased with the car (a sleeker body would be nice). The 2007 has my interest. More powerful and refined engine, better fuel economy, and if you drive 500 miles a week to and from work like I do, the larger gas tank is quite helpful. Also, I regret not getting the cooled seats. However, in Lincoln's promo they state that the MKZ will have higher rated springs etc. for a more performance feel. To me that means a stiffer ride which I absolutely don't want. The uncomfortable ride was the thing I disliked the most about my Maxima and I really like the ride comfort of my Zeph. I believe handling and ride comfort are inversely proportional (if the handling goes up, ride goes down).
    Does anyone have any idea what Lincoln means by more performance oriented? How much is the ride going to suffer? A quick 10 minute test drive may not reveal the true ride characteristics especially if the particular roads travelled are nicely paved. I don't want to go back to the harsh ride of the Maxima.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Where does it say the gas tank will be bigger? Didn't see that and I'd be surprised if that changed.

    The suspension will be much closer to the Fusion, so test drive one of those and you'll get a better idea. The Fusion suspension isn't harsh by any means but it's not floaty, either. I think it will be sporty without being harsh, but only you can decide if you like it or not.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Interesting - 17.5 to 20 gallons. It might be a typo, though - they make a lot of those. We'll know in a few months.
  • ...Ford which in America stands for Fix Or Repair Daily

    I sure don't pick up on that. When I hear people talking about Ford, it's generally to say, along with GM, that as a company it's on its way out (thank you mainstream media for perpetuating that) and that the cars are boring compared to DaimlerChrysler. In casual conversation I rarely hear reliability talked about.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    You generally only hear that from the Chevy fans.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    Yep. Along with Found on Road Dead.
  • ace35ace35 Posts: 131
    Did anyone catch the Zephyr review in inside line here on edmunds. Is it me or did the black Zephyr they were using photograph really well. What a georgeous car in black. Review was actually ok, cant wait till the 3.5L gets here, im sure the MKZ will get the praise that it deserves. But honestly 7.5 sec's to 60 is not bad at all. And they also commented on how the 3.0L didnt sound as harsh as in the fusion/milan. Must be the add'l sound deadening at work.
  • if HP does not sell cars then all cars would have the same hp and it would be around 80, probably 150 for trucks.

    You are smarter than that statement ANT, Ford and GM would not be hauling you know what to catch up with HP and there would be no point for newer fuel saving engine tech unless it can be used to unlock more power while keeping fuel economy good.

    Oh yeah, and if HP does not sell cars no one would make pony cars.

    Now, the fact that Ford has this 260+ hp enigne in the stable is good news, we need to see them keep up the work on it, like GM is doing with its 3.6 (now it will have DI!) and Nisan is doing with VQ, and of course Toyota.

    HP is one of the major selling points of a car. It may be second to quality (durability, problems per car) but its relative and depends on the quality/hp differences.

    Most surverys continuously rate HP as one of the major selling points of cars.

    Look at this:
    Click Here for a European Survey

    The survey showed overall that “Safety” was the most important aspect influencing their choice. This was closely followed by “Reliability.” Germany and Great Britain were the only countries where consumers placed reliability, just ahead of safety.

    The next most important aspects were “Performance/Road holding” and “Running costs.” In all countries, these two aspects were placed in either third or fourth place. Much lower in importance were, “Prestige and Quality,” “Styling” and “Air Conditioning”, followed by “Audio systems” and “Satellite navigation.”


    I took this survey because gas is even MORE important there, and look still performance is just below saftey and reliability.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    You can't expect Ford to top on horsepower in all segments, I keep mentioning how there's other fires that need to be put out, not just horsepower. There are options, if you feel Ford isn't doing enough for YOU with horsepower, there are other brands.
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