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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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Comments

  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "Ant - why would anyone really consider buying this warmed over, un-sexy pile of !@#$%? "

     

    All depends on what the person needs and what they are looking for in a car. It'll be priced rather reasonably, and will have AWD made available soon after. Sales target is around 30K.
  • gregagrega Posts: 31
    Ant - But, if a customer wants luxury, 250hp, good looking car with an emotional "buy" factor, there are just too many better choices than the Zephyr!

     

    Is there any hope of Lincoln delaying the fall'05 intro and fixing some of the styling problems that these chat rooms are ranting about?

     

    We, the participants of these chat rooms, are the key "influentials" that create the buzz for a product and spread positive (or negative) word-of-mouth. You'd think Lincoln would respect what we are saying and gave us some response to these concerns before its too late.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    I understand that, but most of the time when people head into forums of discussion, it's over some problem or issue they are having. While the styling clinics overwhemingly approved a specific vehicle, we won't see compliments gushing out either.

     

    Granted, if it were up to me I would have implemented various other items into the car, such as the 3.5L V6, or even 3.9L V8, but because of various other factors, it wasn't able to at this time.

     

    What the vehicle does have is 6 speed, Availability of AWD, a few other toys included as well, all at a good price. The Zephyr wasn't ment to compete directly against a BMW or G35, those vehicles are tailored to be a bit sporty, while the Zephyr is more about luxury indulgance and pampering.

     

    The next LS, will definately be the performing vehicle those people can shop for.
  • gregagrega Posts: 31
    I appreciate your feedback and like you, I owned a 2000 LS8 Sport for 3-years. Too many quality problems with that car even though it drove and performed reasonably well. I look forward to the next generation and hope Lincoln (please) take some design risks and give us something to get emotional about.

     

    Your designers for the past 5-years have talked about the new style & theme for Lincoln, but the Zephyr is a real disappointment.

     

    I understand it shares the platform and center section (doors, windshields & roof) with the great looking Fusion and up coming Milan - they could do well. The butt-ugly backend needs work, even the heavy chrome licenseplate surround looked better, at least it was a consistent Lincoln theme.

     

    If you're planning only 30,000 sales, I predict you'll canibalize 10K Towncars and 10K LS's and 10K from the old Continental crowd.
  • Zephyr has a strange look for a small car. I mean that grill and ins. panel does not belong there, it belong to something like 1966 Lincoln. But it is IMHO of course. I have to see the car in flesh, sit in a cabin and drive it to decide does it worth consideration.

     

    But my question is in what aspect it is better than Milan? The suspension looks identical, engines are the same, even switches and radio/climate controls are the same. Steering wheel looks the same. So why to pay more, for what?
  • fsvfsv Posts: 196
    Fusion's look is sort of cool... Mercury tends to be better value, than Ford. So, may be Milan is an option. Let's wait. Still sorry for messing up Zephyr so bad. Testdrove Acura TL yesterday. Marvelous. May be it is it, if Ford can not do anything for me?
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    For 30,000 annual sales, I see why they did not bother to develope new rear fenders to allow for the narrow lights of the concept. All they did was come up with a different skin for the trunk lid and a different rear bumper cover. It will be interesting to see the whole new Lincoln line-up. If the pampering means quiet and smooth, good, but let's hope it does not mean wallowy and floaty like the current Town Car.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    " let's hope it does not mean wallowy and floaty like the current Town Car."

     

    No disrespect intended fsm....but when was the last time you drove a Town Car? 1989? They're not that floaty anymore. Big they are, smooth and quiet yes, but they are quite precise and nimble now. The old understeer is long gone now, they are well balanced, peppy and a delight to drive aggresively on any turnpike. No longer a land yacht anymore, yet still very roomy and comfortable. At least, that's how I see them. I'm not saying they're a Turbo Carrera, but they're almost identical to a Lexus LX-430. The Zephyr will likely be stiffer, but also less isolated, quiet & comfy.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    "If you're planning only 30,000 sales, I predict you'll canibalize 10K Towncars and 10K LS's and 10K from the old Continental crowd. "

     

    Actually the vehicle is different in numerous ways from the Town Car, and LS, it really won't cannabilize as many sales from those two. Plus many conquest sales are expected.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    nvbanker, the last time I drove a rental town car was the winter of 2003, so maybe it did not have the same suspension and frame as they now use. I can't remember when they changed it. The Town car would be an excellent vehicle with two simple changes - an optional 3-valve 5.4 V8, and a modern interior (mainly a new instrument panel and door panels, along the lines of the Zephyr and Navigator), and one not-so simple change - an independent rear suspension (maybe the '97 Thunderbird / Cougar / Mark VIII design would work).
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Conquest sales from which companies? None that I can think of. The exterior is attractive, IMO, but the interior... BLEH. So upright and uptite. Weird color combos.

     

    ~alpha
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Ok, the interior is a little bland, agreed. It could use a Navigator touch up, I agree. The Aviator engine would be a nice option at least, if not a standard engine. But I was talking about the handling. Believe me, I think they're great cruisers. And they're as solid and reliable as a car can get, they own the Livery business and stretch Limo business. They even sell an armored model now. Personally, I think it's the best rental car on the planet.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    We went to the LA Auto Show yesterday I really liked the Zephyr. The interior is excellent - the quality of the materials and design and the real wood and metal and chrome really stand out. The interior looked classier than in some radically more expensive cars, such as the Lexus LS430.

     

    It would not take me two seconds to choose a Zephyr over a Lexus ES330 or an Acura TL.

     

    The car would would look strange with the narrow tail lights of the concept car. The lights look better when you are looking at a car, rather than a photo of a car.

     

    Alas, I need the trunk space of a Five Hundred / Montego, as the Zephyr is too narrow.

     

    ANT14 - any chance of a Lincoln version of the Five Hundred / Montego soon? I sat in the Montego at the show several times, and with the seat all of the way back and the back of the bottom cushion tilted down a bit, the footwell space was OK, but my arms had to be straight out to reach the steering wheel. If they make a Lincoln version, it needs the Zephyr interior and a tilt and telescope wheel.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    While many would have preferred the concepts slim tail lights, reality is it would have looked dinky using such small units. It would have left a huge upper and lower trunk sheetmetal to compensate. The production unit will look better lighted, because of the LEDs.

     

    The Lincoln version is still a bit away, more information will become available in next years show. So far it's still being planned out.

     

    Some dislikes people have had over the 500 might be rectified ahead of time.
  • grbeckgrbeck Posts: 2,361
    Now that I've seen additional photos of the Zephyr at the Detroit show, it does look better to me. The interior also looks very classy. The main problem is the chunky taillights.

     

    The initial PR photos released by Ford of the car have to be some of the most unflattering photos of a new vehicle that I have ever seen.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Facinating review...... Can't wait to see one myself now.
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Posts: 396
    slim tailights "would have looked dinky", (a subjective eye of the beholder statement) having seen the concept in person there is no doubt in this viewers mind that there was nothing dinky about it, proportionately the tailights were made for that car and are night and day to the production model, although I must admit I have not seen the production model in person.
  • I have to take exception on the term DINKY.

     

    The concept is suppose to show the ultimate design & style. Thus, the tail lights were the most stylish the designer could come up with. The larger tail lights are a compromise due to other factors.

     

    Just because people do not like the production version does not mean the concept was not good.
  • In the following link, beneath the photo (of what we now know to be the production model), are the words, "Vehicle appearance may change - available fall 2005".. Could it be that they are not through with this car as it appears or more probable its just my wishful thinking to restore more of the exterior concept features! You might also enjoy the latest Zephyr video found at the gallery link!

     

    http://www.lincoln.com/vehicles/newvehiclepreview/zephyr/default.- - - asp
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    You know when you buy a house in a new community, and you pick the floorplan for it and such, you have a little disclaimer in the bottom stating, "Builder reserves rights to alter, change, modify the floorplan shown here"....

     

    Ok, it's a disclaimer.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    And then, there are the E.C.'s that come along later, after production starts.
  • Sounds like you might be an architect or something like that!
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    How about something like an automotive engineer, buckwheat?
  • Or maybe something like a reverse mole, an insider giving us the goods.

     

    ANT ANT, he's our man, if he can't tell us, no one can!!! Yay ANT!!! (or she)
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,278
    quite a few years for the LS to reach this level of indifference on Edmunds, and it certainly didn't happen when the car was still newly-introduced.

    I guess it's progress of a sort. If something's a dog, maybe it's better to shoot it sooner rather than later.
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Posts: 396
    2006 Initial Order Acceptance 04/11/05
    2006 Production Start Up 08/01/05
  • fergusonferguson Posts: 2
    Ant14,
    I've been following the current thread of this forum for some time now and it would appear as though you are the dispenser of hope for us Lincoln lovers! I was first introduced to the Lincoln Zephyr by chance when I was browsing the web for info about new and future mid-size luxury sports sedans. I was totally blown away by the style and interior design of the concept car I saw! I was almost convinced from that moment on that this would be my next car!
    However, as so many who have responded to this topic have shared, I became somewhat disappointed at the photos of the "production" vehicle. I'm more of an "interior" guy, so at first the rather dramatic changes in front and rear didn't bother me. What really upset me was the changes they made to that gorgeous interior! I absolutely loved the light maple wood treatment and the creative flare of the shifter. In the production. the wood treatment was minimized (cut off from below the radio) and the shifter was changed to look not much different that my old ford Taurus SEL. Furthermore, I loved the raised, ribbed aluminum waterfall effect in the center stack and found myself bubbling with excitement over the added touch of all-chrome switches and control stalks! If I'm being honest, these changes bothered me most of all. I do realize I'm going on a bit! :)
    Anyway...I submitted an interest solicitation on Lincoln's official website and several weeks ago received a nice gift in the mail. It was an attractive bag of premium coffee and included some registration form that led me to believe that I would have an opportunity to share in pre-marketing research. However, April is fast marching to completion and I haven't received any further info. Regardless, I do hope that the feedback from Lincoln loyalists - like the ones in this forum - will be listened to on some level. If the production and been closer to the concept I saw, there would have been no doubt in my mind come purchase time at the end of this year, but now...I'm afraid I'll have to proceed with some reservation. :(
    It still seems like an excellent car - from everything I've read on fordmedia's website and detailed information on www.autospectator.com. I really like the sound system, lighting effects, seat treatment, quiet-tuning efforts, and the integrated key fob! I'm holding out hope. Have any to offer! :)
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    I think the name is silly, and I usually don't like Fords, but this one's growing on me. It looks classier than the Mazda 6, Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan. I can only hope that they shove a larger V-6 in there, the 3.0 is a sad old powerplant. And I wouldn't want a car this pretty to be underpowered... :(
  • fergusonferguson Posts: 2
    I hadn't thought about the practicality of all-chrome fittings. That does make sense! Sometimes logistics and ergonomics take a back seat to aesthetics, and this may not be a good thing. :) I'm sure there are those components to interior (as well as exterior) design that contribute to the overall graceful character of a car which, for the large part, remain unseen! But I'm still a huge fan of the wood treatment and shifter :shades: Maybe Lincoln could offer this treatment as part of an upgrade option package or, at the very least, as dealer installed accessories!

    I am certainly looking forward to test-driving one this fall and seeing how it drives and handles, how quiet it is, and how my CD collection sounds in the new THX II sound system!

    Here's a question for anyone who might have an idea. What is the interior sound level in decibels. I'm curious because, in Ford's official press release, they share (with no scarcity of detail) the many different technological advances employed in the Zephyr to ensure optimum quietness (e.g., thicker side window glass, specially designed side mirrors, engine compartment shield, extra padding in select areas, various tuning and suspension upgrades, etc.) They also mentioned that the selection of the tires alone achieved a noise level reduction of 6 dbs. That's pretty impressive, depending on what the base level was. In my last issue of Car and Driver, they were comparing many expensive cars - all retailing over $50,000 and the average interior db level was 66. Personally, I like to be isolated from the outside, so the quiter the better!
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    I'm all for quiet, I had to pump quite a bit of insulation into my LS (and now working on a Mustang) to quiet them. On the Lincoln LS thread I go into detail over it exactly.

    Overall your looking at a pretty quiet cabin, yet nothing on numbers has been publically stated. But your looking at F-150 Lariat, quiet, if not maybe a touch more. Maybe a subdued rumble from the muffler when working the engine hard.

    There's a fine science to it though... you don't wish to isolate too much, because you might have the perception the car is slow since it doesn't involve the driver much. But too much racket, can be annoying at certain RPM's.
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