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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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Comments

  • bigtbigt Posts: 413
    I just purchased the Mecury Milan Hybrid. I am getting 32 consistance MPG and average around 40 on those short trips to the store, etc.

    Traded in my 2007 MKZ. I am very happy camper with all the technology, etc.
  • redboneredbone Posts: 11
    I have an 07 Mkz as well but have very low mileage so I'll wait another year to get the Milan hybrid. I think that Lincoln will lose many sales to Milan hybrid.
  • tk329tk329 Posts: 3
    I am glad that someone else has posted the fact that the stupid rod that you use to hold up the hold should be used to beat up the people that made the decision to place it there. A couple of other things that tell you that the "Z" is closer to the Milan then the "S" is the lack of push button start,and the windshield washers on the hood,plus the hood rod. All of that except the price,which is closer to the "S". Figure!
  • tiger16tiger16 Posts: 54
    Think I'll take some time to vent some more. First of all, since we take the time & effort to post here, it's safe to assume we all actually want Lincoln to succeed. This is the only format we have to let the idiots at Ford know what they need to do to once again acheive profitability. Too bad they don't listen.
    Anyway, in my previous post, I stated I would not purchase the 10 MKZ. I went to the site to "build" one to see if I could be lured back. I found out some more disturbing things. The highway gas mileage is down from last year - not good for me since my daily commute on I-95 is 82 miles round trip. I have the Nav system an THX 6 CD changer on my Zephyr. Guess what, you can no longer get the Nav with the CD changer! You either get the Nav OR you get the CD changer. The Nav only comes with a single load CD. Even the new $2500 THX/Nav pkg is only single play. That's exactly what I want to do going 65 mph down I-95 - fumble with CD cases while trying to eject & insert CDs. Funny that you can get the Nav with 6 CD changer in Lexus, Infinti and Acura (didn't check Cadillac). Anytime you take away something that was previously offered, it's a downgrade. Once again Ford fails to meet the competition. And after checking the competitions' sites, I just can't get excited about the "new" MKZ interior. It's still several notches below. Look at the ES or the CTS. Not even close.
    So, in the 2010 MKZ, we have a prop rod, no air vents for the rear seats, a degraded audio system, a cheap looking console, fewer color choices (no blue), less gas mileage, low profile hard riding tires and a price increase of about $2K. This thing is looking more and more like a train wreck.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    The Lexus doesn't have a 10 gb jukebox or Sync either. You can rip 16 CDs to the internal jukebox - last time I checked that's a lot better than just 6 cds. Not to mention that you can use a USB flash drive or MP3 player with thousands of songs.

    And the price increase is mostly due to options becoming standard like stability control.

    At least get your facts straight before you start bashing.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Lincoln has improved the MKZ quite a bit since Zephyr days. However, the MKZ drives like a Fusion Sport--without so much sport. Behind the wheel, it does not feel significantly diffferent from other reasonably equipped, non-luxury mid-sizers like the Fusion and Malibu. For the kind of coin they charge, the "feel" from behind the wheel should distinguish this model more. I'm afraid that until Lincoln has the resources and time to fully redesign this model, it will remain an also-ran in the marketplace. But at least it is no longer a dud in the near luxury field like the 2006 Zephyr was. Some day Lincoln may actually build cars again whose resale value doesn't plummet like a stone. To get there, they will need something truly special.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    Have you driven the ES/Camry? Just curious if those are any better and if so, how?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Yes. The Camry is a nice solid feeling appliance...fairly quiet but no one would write home about the handling. The ES is more serene, more smooth. Not a "fun" drive, but the engine never sounds taxed even when you floor it, interior materials are impeccable at this price level, and the ride is pillow soft (again, not the car for spirited cornering). It really coddles for something based on the plebeian Camry. It is not a styling standout though. It is tasteful but anonymous. Though it shares not one panel with the Camry, unless you are a car guy like me, you might even mistake if for an uplevel Camry on a quick glance.
  • tiger16tiger16 Posts: 54
    akirby, thanks for the response to my post. I don't quite understand it though. You said to "get my facts straight." Exactly which facts were not straight? I said you can no longer get the Nav with a 6 CD changer - THAT'S A FACT. You consider the MP3/jukebox thing to be better - that is nothing more than your opinion. All that only works if one has the equipment, knowhow, time and desire to take advantage of it. I'm sure there are many potential buyers out there that would still like the convenience and simplicity of a 6 CD changer. Seems like Lincoln could have still allowed the Nav and changer to co-exist. Doesn't seems like rocket science for crying out loud.
    Also, I said the base price increased by about 2K - THAT'S A FACT. Your comments about "things" now being standard is merely an attempt to justify the price increase. The problem with making certain things standard is you force people to pay for things they may not want. I'm sure there are potential buyers that do not want to pay extra for stability control or for sat radio or for cooled seats. My point is, adding more to the base price may not be good market strategy. Leave some things out and let the buyer decide if they want to pay for them. Your average buyer is going to look at the price of MKZ and Lexus and may very well say - I'll take the Lexus since it costs the same.
    Here are my other comments on the 2010 MKZ:
    Fewer exterior colors offered
    No rear air vents
    Less highway mileage than the 2009
    Low profile tires
    Again, which of these statements is incorrect? My comments concerning the ugly, cheap console and degraded stereo are opinions. Not right or wrong but, opinions. I'll give you that. You told me to get my facts straight before I start bashing. One might suggest that you brush up on your reading comprehension skills so you understand what you read. That way you can more appropriately bash the post rather than the poster. Fair enough?
    One last thing concerning the Camry/ES thing. I have access to both. Family members have the Camry and a good friend has an 09 ES. I driven both. Toyota has done a good job separating the Lexus from the Camry. The Camry is no where near the MKZ but, the ES is nicer than the MKZ (my opinion). Other than some trim, I don't think there is much difference between the MKZ and Fusion/Milan.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    You implied that losing the 6 cd changer was bad without mentioning that they've offered something better in it's place. With the internal jukebox you load it from cds - put in a cd, download it, put in another, etc. That is not much different than loading 6 cds except that it can hold 16 cds. This does not require a computer or anything other than putting cds in the radio in the car. You also implied that the car was $2K more expensive than last year without mentioning the added standard equipment. And the stability control is standard because the government is mandating it within a couple of years and all mfrs are doing that. So go complain to the government.

    Just because your statements were "technically" correct does not make them less misleading. I'm with you on the lack of rear air vents and fuel mileage and I'll even grant you that the MKZ is not quite as nice as the ES (but I bet it handles a lot better based on the Fusion/Camry comparos). But it's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    I haven't driven a 2010 Fusion or Milan but I have spent some time in earlier models. While the ride quality of the MKZ might not be much different, the MKZ is much quieter and 3.5 engine is smoother and more powerful than the 3.0. I see that as important as the better trim. The quieter interior, and especially the quieter engine under acceleration moves the MKZ up the ladder a bit from the Fusion/Milan.

    As for the CD player, the jukebox feature is very cool and simple to operate. It really makes the old 6 disc changer obsolete, IMO. I like the fact that you can download the CD and then use it in your home system or another vehicle. You don't need multiple copies of the same CD.

    You and I are in agreement on the other features and those lacking. And, yes, I think the price gets a bit steep in spite of the more standard equipment. I really haven't driven any of the MKZ's competition so I can't make direct comparisions but I know that the ES with options can get up into MKS pricing territory fairly easily.

    If my choice was between an MKZ and a 2010 Taurus Limited, I would take the Taurus in a heartbeat and pocket a few thousand bucks.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Remember that the 2010 Fulan is significantly quieter than it was (adopting much of the 07-09 MKZ noise suppression). LIncoln did make the 10 MKZ quieter than the 09 though. The 2010 3.0 liter is much improved over the 09, and the hp gap between that and the 3.5 is now far less. Plus, the same 3.5 is now available in the Fusion. None of the engines sound refined under hard acceleration, but otherwise, NVH levels are very good.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    Yes, and the difference between the 2010 MKZ and 2010 Fusion/Milan may not be so great.

    Like others, I have read that the 3.5 "is not as refined" as Japanese V6s. The only Japanese V6 I have driven lately is my boss's Acura RL. I admit that the engine is pretty sweet. However, I really like the sound of the 3.5 and it is a lot smoother than the pre-2010 3.0. I also think there are some perception issues around this "refinement" argument. Other than smoothness and sound, I am not sure how you measure refinement.

    http://media.ford.com/images/10031/10MKZ_Refined_Powertrain_Sound_Quality.pdf
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    I am not sure how you measure refinement

    If mfr = (Honda, Acura, Toyota, Lexus, Nissan, Infiniti, MB or BMW)
    then
    engine is refined
    else
    engine is not refined
    endif
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Looks to me like different people like to hear different things, but bottom line, there should be a change in the sound perception of wide open throttle between the 09 and 10 MKZ. Given what I've been reading (haven't seen or driven a 10), the MKZ should sound better, and given that it is significantly more quiet than the already pretty quiet 09, it is probably now more serene than the the bigger MKS. Will be interesting to compare.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    The '10 MKZ really does sound better. Actually, to my ears, the sound quality is about the same except it seems further away or more muted. If I recall correctly, they changed the airbox on the '10s specifically to reduce the engine noise.

    I think the base MKS 3.7 has more engine noise than it should - more than a '10 MKZ. Again, I have no objection to the quality of the sound - just the quantity. I look forward to the sound of a twin turbo MKS, though. They even have a tube that runs from the air intake up to the passenger compartment to enhance the sound- like the new Mustang. If I don't like it, I will plug that tube, though!
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    Sounds to me like they spent all their resources on the Fulanz and Taurus and the MKS will have to wait another year or two - except for the ecoboost engine.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    While the MKS will never suit everyone, the twin-turbo engine is really all it needed to satisfy me. I quibble about a few other things but we could do that about any car. Nearly 350 ft.lb of torque at 1500 rpm can help me forget about some of its other shortcomings.

    The MKS already has the structural enhancements that the 2010 Taurus is getting. Other than some engine noise from the 3.7, the MKS is a very quiet car and I think the suspension tuning is about right, considering its mission. While totally worthless to me, "park assist" will be available. I guess that trumps adjustable pedals from a technology viewpoint. ;)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    I don't think I've needed to parallel park in at least 15 years. I can't even think of any place around me that even has parallel parking spaces available. But I do think it's neat.

    I think rather than gripe about what the MKS doesn't have (yet) that we should applaud Ford for not holding back on the Taurus features. In the past that would not have happened. That's a good sign. Ford is priority 1 right now, Lincoln is second and Mercury is only getting crumbs. Which is the right way to do it.
  • theman123theman123 Posts: 170
    Well this will make some peopels brain hurt. the 2010 Lincoln MKZ is as nice as a Lexus350,
    About.car:com review of the 2010 Lincoln MKZ

    This is going to stir things up a bit.
    :shades:
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,539
    Hmm....been needing to replace my '96 ES, but the new ES doesn't do much for me, and the previous MXZ styling was not so hot. The new one is much improved. I'll have to take a look.
  • tiger16tiger16 Posts: 54
    This is more like it! Some activity on this board. Lincoln can sure use the interest. In a previous post, I pointed out that the highway mileage is down. Does anyone know why? Seems like the tweaking and, from what I understand a new tranny, would have created better mileage.
    Also, some posters have waxed royally about the jukebox thing. I still like the changer but, I'm open minded. Supposedly, this thing can house 16 downloaded CDs. I'm not sure what the benefit is if your collection is extensive (I have over 400 CDs). What happens to the other 384+? Seems like I can only load them one at a time after the intial 16 so, essentially, it's still only a single play. I'm not trying to bash the system at this point, I'm just trying to understand it. Can someone direct me to a website?
    At this point, I'm no longer considering a 2010 MKZ, however, a little knowledge can't hurt. And who knows. If I can get through this CD thing and Lincoln offers a dressup option for the ugly all black console, I might change my mind.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    You take 16 or so CDs (assuming 600 mb each on a 10 gb drive) and you load them one at a time, and tell it to copy to the internal drive. Then you load the next one. Only takes a few minutes from what I've heard. Then you have all the songs from all 16 CDs available to play all at once. Just like having a 16 CD changer except you don't have to change from disc to disc. Then you still have the single CD slot if you want to listen to something different. Or you can delete a ripped CD and rip a new one anytime you want. The only thing you lose is that it takes a couple of minutes to rip the cd to the internal drive. You can also use iTunes on your computer (for free), load all your CDs and put them onto a usb flash drive as MP3s and have all of them available (or whatever will fit on a flash drive) at once. A 8 gb flash drive would hold at least a thousand songs (at slightly lower quality than audio CDs).

    So what do you think of the article posted above?
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    Tiger, there is usually a logical explanation for everything but, off the top of my balding head, I can't tell you why the EPA highway rating dropped by 1 MPG. The aerodynamics are a bit better on the '10 and it is geared more favorably for highway fuel economy than the '09. Logic would tell us that the '10 should be a bit better. I will keep digging on this one.

    I get a lot of Ford/Lincoln information from the link below. I am not nearly the audiophile that akirby or you are but here is a quote from the information sheet on the MKZ:

    In addition, the system features a 10 GB hard drive jukebox, allowing Lincoln owners to store up to 2,400 favorite music tracks.

    Somewhere else on the media ford site, it mentions 150 hours of music can be stored. In any case, if you have 6 CDs loaded in a 6 disc changer and you own 394 more, wouldn't that present the same issue as you describe in your post?

    http://media.ford.com/brand.cfm?make_id=2593
  • tiger16tiger16 Posts: 54
    My thinking with the CD changer is that I can rountinely eject one or more and load one or more at any time. I quite honesty don't know how this 16 CD archive for the jukebox works. Can the 16 (or any amount) routinely be changed? How do you cycle through over 2000 tunes to find what you are looking for? Especially while you are driving down the highway at 65. How long does it take to download a CD? I can load 6 CDs in a changer in about 30 seconds. How do you organize the 2000 tunes? How quickly can you access a particular tune? A lot of questions so, you can see my ignorance here. Perhaps the jukebox is a bit of audio evolution - like the 8 track being replaced by cassette and the cassette being replaced by CD.
    I'm planning on getting a 2010 and I really want to like the MKZ more than I do right now. My Zephyr has been the most dependable and durable car I've ever owned.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    A Lincoln rep demonstrated all of that to me at an MKS preview event last summer but I don't remember all the details. It is voice activated and you can just press a button on the steering wheel and say, "Bruce Springsteen" or whatever, and it would find it. You could also say the name of a particular song and it would find and play it. I think there are some demonstrations of the capability on U-tube.

    I make no claim to being an expert on in-car entertainment. It sounds like you are far more of an audio buff than I am but for my simple needs, I thought the jukebox feature was a big step up from carrying around CDs. Of course, I usually just listen to talk radio......
  • bigtbigt Posts: 413
    The Milian HB Juke box is 10 gig and can hold an estimated 2,472 tracks of music in the 'Gracenote' musical database. Gracenote is the engine of the Navigation system of the MKS also.

    http://www.gracenote.com/

    At first I thought you could record songs from Sirus radio however the record option only applies to CD's. I am not sure where the 16 cd number is coming from. Basically you put a CD in the drive, select the tracks you want to record and it copies them off the CD and onto the Jukebox. The CD could contain regular .cda stuff or mp3's including play lists you have created on the disc. As long as you have space in the Jukebox you can put all the tracks you want there.

    Once the tracks are in your jukebox you can create play lists for them. As for accessing them you have a ton of options:

    Play all tracks, play list, play genre, play artist, play album, etc. While driving you can access all of this stuff via voice commands such as play Bob dylan. Or you can say search genre, search album, search artist, search track. You can even use a 'refine' command after whatever your initial search results came up. So if you said search jazz and then a list of jazz came up you could say 'refine artist Paul Hardcastle' and his tracks will come up and then you could say 'refine album Hardcastle 5' and the tracks from that come up without you touching a button.

    If the 10 gig is not enough than Sync allows you to plug into the USB port any media device. I have a 2 terabyte device that fits into the compartment by the driver seat! :) Whatever you plug in SYNC starts indexing all of the media and playlist files contained on it. Once the indexing is done all of the commands referenced above via voice are availiable or you can touch screen them. Lots of the commands can be touched by the passenger also.

    For us ole-timers who cannot remember which Hendix song is playing you can even ask 'whats playing' and it will read the metadata tags and tell you.

    Supported media files are mp3, wma, wav, and aac.

    If you don't have USB flash drives or devices, plug in a Ipod, Zune or any other media player and again everything is indexed including existing playlist you have on the device.

    Also if you have a USB port phone charger just plug it in and off charging you go. Or you can always just use your home phone charger because in the rear you have a real standard 120 volt outlet for your laptop or phone.

    Sync will also create new playlists on the fly if you want. If something is playing just say 'create similar playlist' and off the indexer will go.

    If you still need a music fix start streaming music frm your bluetooth enabled phone.

    If you get bored of just audio stimulation put in the concert DVD and watch that. When you are stopped you get the video and audio. Once you start moving you just get the audio!

    In my opinion in this area this system is a 'homerun'. Now if we can just get the Washington Nationals to do the same this season I will really be happy.

    As for the car, downtown yesterday at night and as the valet brought it out folks were saying stuff like, 'wow, did not know Mercury had a hybrid, and it looks like a real car'.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    Since you can only copy songs to the jukebox from CDs I assumed it was storing songs in CD audio format and not MP3 format. In which case 10 gb would only hold about 16 CDs (at 600 mb each). If it's ripping the songs in MP3 format then that would explain why it can hold up to 150 hours of music rather than just 16 or so. That's the equivalent of about 150 cds. So it appears you can load your entire cd library (or at least the first 150 cds) directly onto the jukebox. And I'm sure you can delete old ones and add new ones anytime you want.

    Soooo.........6 cds or 150 cds plus one in the disc slot. Hmmm.......that's a tough one.
  • tiger16tiger16 Posts: 54
    Gee, this jukebox thing is sounding (no pun intended) better all the time. So, if I can still "change out" whole CDs somewhat like a changer, I could be happy.
    About the article on the MKZ. I have no doubt that there are areas that the MKZ has improved (ride, quietness, performance) and it is probably on a par with the ES in many ways. Overall, I'm sure it is nicer than my Zephyr. A few things bother me. One is the gas mileage. It's not so much that it decreased 1 mpg; it's more the fact that it decreased at all. I just think the proper evolution would be to increase gas mileage when you tweak a car. The 17.5 gallon fuel tank also bothers me. My weekly work commute is over 500 miles and an extra gallon or two would really be nice. The other things pertain to the interior. It's an improvement but, for what it's supposed to be, it could be better. A nicer steering wheel, some wood on the console, a wood shifter and for sure, rear air vents. And the real frustrating thing is that these items are not high dollar items - they're mere pennies relative to the price of the car. They're a bunch of little things that collectively contribute to the definition of a "luxury" car. At least offer some of these things as interior enhancement options. I think correcting these "little" things could help change the pervading perception of Lincoln and help sell some cars! Check out the ES and CTS interiors.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,674
    I agree things could be better, but Ford seems to be making progress. I've asked an inside source about the fuel economy. FWIW 27 seems to match or exceed the competition so it's not like they're behind the curve and I'm sure there was a good reason for the drop.

    The interior design is fine and I think they just need to add some wood to the center stack and make some slight upgrades. I bought a Fusion rather than a Zephyr back in 2005 just because I didn't like the interior. I think the new one is a lot better design wise. Of course that's just my opinion.
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