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Honda Civic vs. Toyota Corolla

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  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    I disagree with you. The negotiated price of the Civic LX my Aunt purchased was 14,200. We NEVER mentioned a trade until AFTER agreeing upon a sales price, which is what all the publications tell you to do. When initially asked if there was a trade involved, we replied NO, then AFTER the dealer drew up the sales invoice at 14,200, 2.9%, 2000 gs down, 99 doc fee, tax, title, license... we mentioned that wed like to dispose of the old car, at which point the trade for the security system was completed.

    If you choose to factor the trade in the purchase, fine. But since we did them as basically two separate things, I count them as different, since we could have walked away from the dealer (WITHOUT trading in the 1992) with a selling price of $14,200. As you state, if the dealer made up money by us offering the 1992 Civic- given my aunts preferences- that was fine. Anyone would pay more than $1000 for that car is crazy, IMO. Good car, but needed plenty of work at 174,000 miles.

    Good luck with your Civic, and happy motoring.

    ~alpha

    PS- I prefered the Corolla, but she (my aunt) went with the Civic because of the better APR, and her past experience with Honda. The Corolla for 2005 will have stability control and side curtain airbags available, both desirable options, IMO.
  • bd21bd21 Posts: 437
    You did the deal right and you got a great price. I couldn't get a dealer within 200 miles to go any lower than I got it for. I count all fees except state tax and tags/registration as the price paid for the car, so I count DOC fees as part of the price paid, along with any dealer processing fees. I was at about $14,500, if you leave those out. I just hate involving trades to the dealer, because they can't afford to give you what it's worth along with a great price on the car you are buying. Happy Motoring too!
  • 280hp280hp Posts: 36
    both cars are about even.

    if the civic was cheaper id say go with the civic. to me it would be worth $600 more. but thats a very personal call.

    if she has no personal preference, i would suggest pushing both dealers hard within the time frame left, before making a final decision.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    Quote: /#13 of 25 by dennis1 Apr 09, 2004 (12:33 pm)
    Thanks to all.

    My daughter is very conservative and doesn't care that much about looks. Being 6'-0" tall, she'd never consider a MINI and the Jetta's are about $3,000 higher.

    She's poured over comparisons, checked all the facts and numbers(she's a fimance major), and basically rates both vehicles about even.

    The last pricing she received was about $14,800 for the Toyota and $15,400 for the Honda (both equipped with automatics, and cruise so she is comparing apples to apples). These were out the door prices and included all rebates, taxes, destination charges, title, license, etc. I think the quoted prices were very good.

    Any other comments or recommendations would be appreciated. She will be buying early May unless some rebates expire before then.


    I am 6 foot and MINI is fine, I have a friend who is 6'2" and drives a mini with no problem.

    When comparing Honda to Toyota one has to be careful. You mention that you looked at Civic with auto and cruise vs. Toyota with auto and cruise. To get Cruise on a Civic, I think you have to go with LX, while Toyota's ala carte pricing allows you to pick just the items you want. Civic LX offers a/c, power windows, and door locks. While one can get a Corolla with just the two ameneties you spoke about. If your daughter is not planning on carrying passngers all the time, Civic is also available in 2 door version while corolla is not.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    LE has A/C, power windows, locks, mirrors standard as well. It is very easy to equip a Civic LX and Corolla LE identically, except for the fact that Honda wont let you choose ABS if you can afford an $18,000 EX.

    ~alpha
  • dennis1dennis1 Posts: 4
    My daughter ended up buying the Toyota Corolla.

    We test drove the Honda Civic at two dealerships and the Toyota Corolla at 3 dealerships. She liked the ride and looks of the Toyota a little better plus the price difference of comparably equipped vehicles was $340.00 less for the Toyota.

    She takes delivery May 1 but will be storing the vehicle at my house until May 22 when she graduates college and moves to her new apartment. I will end up going with her when she picks up the car because I'm sure they will try to sell her a maintenance program, rustproofing, fabric protection, extended warranty, etc. and there should be no reason to buy any of these.

    Thanks to all for advise and comments.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Congrats on the decision. If your daughter is just graduating college and the car is being paid for in her name- are you aware that Toyota (a nationwide offer, I believe) is offering a $1000 rebate to recent grads with verification? Of course, this wont hold if the car is in your name. I'm sorry I didnt mention this sooner, I didnt realize she was graduating college.

    ~alpha
  • I've been shopping this level of car for the past several weeks, looking to replace my 5-speed Accord with an automatic Civic, Corolla, etc.

    In considering used vehicles (such as from Hertz), I'd opt for the Corolla because the powertrain portion of the manufacturer's warranty is 2 years / 24,000 miles longer than that from Honda.

    It's a bit of an insurance policy for the car's mechanical components when considering used...and new.
  • On March 30th I bought a civic lx auto coupe for 14k plus ttl--no trade

    This was in tempe, az.

    We bought a civic ex sedan auto for 16k two weeks latter in Tucson, AZ.

    Both of these deals were $1000 below invoice.--maybe more since the ex had wheel locks, trunk tray, and splash guards.

    BTW, we normally dont buy cars like we buy groceries, but my wife liked my daughters car so much, we sold her taurus, and bought her a civic.
  • warnerwarner Posts: 196
    Well, I've just spent the last few weeks trying to figure out what to do about my aging Hyundai Elantra Wagon. With some help from my wife (and mother-in-law....what a surprise that she had an opinion!), I finally decided to buy a new car instead of having the unknown repair bills on the aging Hyundai (which has been a very good car by the way, but the resale value is a joke!). I have driven and considered the 3 cars in the title of this posting as well as the Honda Element. Let me start by saying that I really WANTED to like and buy the Element, which I test drove just after test driving the Scion Xb. I thought for certain that the Element would have TONS more power and feel much faster than the Scion, but it did not! I was disappointed to say the least. So between those two, unless you are REALLY going to be going off road or have poor snow removal on the roads where you live (in the Chicago area, we're pretty good with snow removal - I've NEVER owned a 4-wheel drive vehicle and can't remember ever being stuck, either)the Scion is a no-brainer. Couple that with the extra 5 grand that the 4wd Element costs over the Scion and it's an easy choice (not to mention 5 seats in the Scion vs 4 in the Element). Wait a minute...this is about the Civic and the Corolla, right? Sorry!

    I have ordered (and the dealer is doing his best to get the vehicle from another dealer who has the exact car that I want...we'll see if they can play nice with each other) a 2004 Honda Civix LX SSRS 5-speed(side air bag option). I used www.carsdirect.com to negotiate the purchase price on the Honda (this was VERY helpful and easy!). I ended up with the car that I want for $250 under invoice, and will get 2.9% financing for 60 months, so I think I did well. MSRP on the car that I ordered is $16,100 - Invoice is $14,759 - my price is $14,509 which I think is great. Maybe some have done better than this, but I bet it wasn't by much. Here's what I didn't like about the other cars that I considered, and what I did like about the Civic:

    Toyota Corolla - Seating ergonomics were terrible. I'm a normal sized guy - 5'10" tall and 180lb. I felt as if I had to reach for the steering wheel, pulling my back off the back of the seat, while at the same time my legs felt cramped. Adjusting the seat forward or backward would make one condition better and the other worse. Seat comfort (without holding the wheel) was very good, and I like the look of the interior as much as the Civic's. The seating position blew it for me. (not to mention the attitude difference between the Honda dealership and the Toyota dealership...they are basically across the street from each other, but what a difference in attitude!) The Toyota feels like a bigger heavier car, when it is in fact roughly the same size as the Civic. For me the Civic's ergonomics were perfect! (and again, I'm average sized....I don't have stubby little arms and long legs, so it's not ME, it's the Toyota that's laid out strangely) Because Toyota is cheaper with the same options and is also offering 0% financing on their 2004 models, I wanted to like this better than the Civic, but I had to be honest with myself; the civic was clearly better. In terms of resale value, neither the Toyota nor the Civic is a slouch by any means, but I do believe the Civic holds it's value a bit better than the Toyota.

    Scion Xb - What an interesting vehicle! My wife who's 30 (8 years younger than me) and a pretty happening European chick thought the Scion was really cool looking. It makes a lot of sense, too....with great gas mileage, TONS of room inside, and lots of standard features for a great price. Here's what I didn't like about it:

    NO CENTER ARM REST! (that was enough to kill the idea for me....maybe it sounds trivial, but it's a big deal to me)

    Availability - If I had ordered one yesterday, I MIGHT have it in 7 or 8 weeks. That's 2 months, folks. I really don't feel like waiting for a car, but that's just me....maybe it's not an issue for others, but it is worth mentioning. You can't just go in and buy one; you have to order one.

    Appearance - While I love the funky square look of the vehicle today (in an English Bulldog sort of way), I wonder how I'd feel about it 4 years from now? Maybe I'd love it even more...who knows? It's a consideration, though.

    Power - Okay, let's be real....NONE of the vehicles that I'm interested in buying this time are going to set any acceleration records (I used to drag race motorcycles, so it's difficult to impress me anyway), but this thing was dog slow. It may perform a little better with the 5 speed (which is the way that I would order one if I were to buy one), but it's only got 105 HP. I did not take it onto the highway during my test drive, but I would imagine that would have been very telling. Although the Civic only has 10 more horsepower than this vehicle, it's definitely got more pop.

    Resale value - Yeah, it's made by Toyota so it SHOULD be good, but in 4 years this boxy look may be WAY out of vogue making the vehicle difficult to sell...who can say?

    Civic - The seating ergonomics are near perfect for me, right down to where my left foot rests while driving. Acceleration was more than acceptable, tbe blue color is beautiful, and the dealer that I worked with didn't waste much time with me. He didn't argue on the price of the car (I had the carsdirect.com quote and I told him up front that I didn't care if I bought the car from him or from them, so he knew that he had to match the price if he wanted to sell me the car). The ONLY thing that we discussed at all was the trade in value of my Hyundai, which was dismal at best. We did reach an agreement on that, but I'm still going to take the car to Carmax and see what they offer me for it. It's got $2,000 worth of hail damage on it, a crack in the windshield, and damage to the rear bumper cover and I STILL got $2,000 for it so to me it's the same as getting almost $5k for it if those things were all fixed. Other good stuff about the Civic that everyone knows about are the great gas mileage and resale value. Honestly, I'd consider another Hyundai because mine has been a very reliable, good, relatively powerful car for me, but even if I could get one for a thousand less than the Civic, it would lose more than the difference in resale value so it's simply NOT a good investment (unless you buy cars and drive the wheels off of them, which is what I had planned to do with the Hyundai when I bought it, but with a family to think about I can't afford to have a car breaking down on me somewhere so the "driving it into the ground" theory simply isn't feasible to me).

    In summary (I'm about to shut up now), anyone looking for a car in this category should consider both the Civic and the Scion (resale on the Scion is still a big unknown) and if you have short legs and long arms the Corolla may be a perfect fit for you!

    I
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    This is a great research paper, lol. Edmunds should make an article out of it. I just have a few comments. First of all, congrats on the new civic. Second, I am pretty sure you can get an arm rest for the Scion. If you are going to compare the Scion with Element compare the 2WD Element, not 4WD.

    Scions will have good resale in 4-5 years, as the kids who are dreaming about owning one now, will be able to afford a used one. I figure a 5 year old Scion xB will be about $8K, which is not bad if someone bought it for $14K new.
  • warnerwarner Posts: 196
    Thanks...and you are correct about comparing apples to apples as far as the Scion and the Element. If I did choose the Element, one of the reasons for that would be that I could get it in 4WD so although that makes for a lousy comparison, that's what my choices boiled down to for me. Apples to apples, the Scion is still a lot cheaper though. I just question the radical styling of the Scion...it seems like a trendy style that could very easily go out of vogue in 5 years. It's an unknown at least. The Civic is the Civic.....and for what it is will probably never go out of style. As far as my comments, they were honest and I treid to let people know what my opinions were after looking at and driving the cars. I hope it helped!

                      Warner
  • I understand that the Corolla comes with a timing chain rather than a belt. I would think this would be an important advantage for the Corolla.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    We've discussed the chain vs. belt issue. Either one has advantages, but chains break too!!!
  • stevengordonstevengordon Posts: 130
    What's the advantage to the driver of the belt over the chain?
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    What is the advantage to the driver of the Overhead camshaft over pushrod?
  • stevengordonstevengordon Posts: 130
    Is there a reason to consider one vehicle versus another on the basis of chain versus belt? I sometimes encounter salesmen who market the chain of their vehicle versus the belt of their competitors. They phrase it in terms of additional expense that the other guy's vehicle will cost you when you hit the 60K to 100K mileage mark.

    Is there an advantage to the belt over the chain?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    and perhaps someone could answer it without the sarcasm?
  • bd21bd21 Posts: 437
    It really depends on how long you keep your cars. Currently on a Honda that uses a belt, it's due replacement at 105,000 miles or 7 years at cost of about $600 to $800. The cost is so high because service departments like to change the water pump when they have to change the timing belt. If you are selling your car when it is coming due a timing belt change, it will be a detractor for the buyer. If your car has a timing chain and you do regular oil changes and don't drive it like a race car, the chain can easily last the life of the engine or at least 200,000 miles. If I had a choice, I prefer a chain, because in the end you will save on maintenance costs over a belt. Even if you ever had to change the timing chain and sprockets, the cost is not much more than you would have spent to do a belt. Belts were originally used because they operated quieter than a chain, but that is really not a factor anymore. I would let many other aspects of a car drive my purchase decision, not whether the engine had a belt or a chain. In the end it's really a not a big deal.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    Sorry, that was me. My point is that if someone is going to spend $15,000 on a brand new car and quibbles about $500 maintenance item 10 years, 100,000 miles later it makes me wonder whether they are just starting up a fight. $500 belt replacement is miniscule compared to operating costs over the 10 year period. What about tires, some cars come with good gripping tires that only last 40,000 miles, while others come with long lasting 80,000 mile tires that have less grip. I don't see anyone comparing the costs there, which are in $300-$500 range. Brakes are a wear and tear items, so are hoses, filters, fluids. There are tons of items that needs replacing on regular basis. How about the driving dynamics of a car, reliability, quality of fit and finish, fuel economy, and so on, why would a timing belt be your descision guide? If the belt vs chain is your biggest descision maker, go with GM's push rod engine.
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