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Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • rich545rich545 Posts: 386
    She has the regular seats, and it's funny you mention that. I felt it everytime I got out of the passenger seat. I almost felt like I was breaking the seat! Hopefully I'm not heavy enough to do that!
  • I truly believe that you are right, that if I sit in one, it will be better than the picture shows, but still I don't think that "luxury" will scream at me when I sit in it.. -can you take a pic of your wife's interior and show us? i'm curious to see it
  • rich545rich545 Posts: 386
    I'll give it a try tonight, but though I have a nice camera (Nikon D70) I'm not a professional. I'm sure Lexus used a pro to take their shot. In the meantime though look at this pic from Audi's website:

    http://www.audiusa.com/model_gallery/0,3525,bodyStyleId-4_area-1_subarea-2_mediaId-7000401- 5683,00.html?bodystyle=a6sedan
  • The audi site interior photos definetely look much better than the first ones we saw, yes. The D70 will be tough unless you have a wide wide angle (like 12-16mm) because of the 1.5X multiplier factor of the sensor.
  • rich545rich545 Posts: 386
    Yeah, the widest I go is 18mm so it probably will be tough. The website picture is more true to life anyway though.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I have no complaints in regards to Audi's materials quality. They still rank with the best of the best in terms of materials quality, panel gaps, etc. I just dont like how cold the overall "ambiance" of the interior became. Pretty much all of the previous car's elegant curved surfaces became flat and dull.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    Audi is rather universally regarded as having the finest interiors of luxury sedans. Regardless of performance, comfort, price, etc, all the comparos always remark on how great the Audi interiors are. I'd definitely agree, as well, of course. I'd also agree that you need to see one to really know. It certainly does not have the look of "cheap plastic" in person.....
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    All this talk about Audi interiors!
    Where is Mark Cincinnati when needed to keep us spellbound with a few dozen paragraphs on the history of Audi interiors? ;)

    "Mares eat oats and does eat oats, and little lambs eat ivy"

    speaking of top interiors check out what Edmunds feature for 2005
    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/103266/article.html
  • I really have very little to add to this discussion about the interiors. Those who read the auto and enthusiast car magazines (like them or not) know that Audi, for years, has been credited with having "the best interiors." Regardless of other attributes (at the moment), the Audi interiors are said to be second to none.

    I would love to wax poetic on this subject, for it is the interiors of Audis that are time and time again said to be "jewel like" and as far as the switchgear is concerned, the switches and knobs seem like high end audio equipment in terms of their tactile feel and appearance.

    But I will not spend another 1,500 words trying to convince someone, anyone, who hasn't seen them in person but has seen the pictures posted here and has concluded the Audi interiors are cheap. Why not?

    Because, unless I miss my guess, those of us who think Audi interiors have few peers but many "rivals" (who repeatedly miss the mark) -- no matter what their credentials as auto journalists might be -- are expressing opinions and are basing their remarks on emotion.

    The LPS cars have been written about time and again and I would have thought that "nobody doesn't love Audi interiors." Obviously, this isn't the case -- some folks just like their choices, their faves more. It is a free country.

    Quantity may count -- maybe it doesn't -- but, the quantity of glowing reviews about Audi interiors dominates the reviews and comments about LPS interiors overall.

    Audi interiors are the benchmark -- other aspects pertaining to Audis (and the LPS cars generally) are way wide open for debate. Audi interiors, however, are what the other guys aspire to.

    This "fact" doesn't make it a universal truth. If you are looking for truth -- you've come to the right place. Let the debate continue.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    Very succinct. :)
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    What is your opinion on my original point though, about how Audi went from soft and warm to cold and hard? Which A6 interior do you like better?
  • dan339gdan339g Posts: 56
    Although it pains me, I must agree with your assessment that the A6 interior has taken a turn towards the sterile. This is not to say it is of poor quality or inferior materials, but clearly the emphasis has become focused more on function over form. I don't perceive the new interior as luxurious or stylish as the previous model, despite it's appearance of being more driver oriented. There is little dispute that historically they have been the gold standard for interior design, but this change is consistent with the way they have positioned this vehicle more towards the "sport" end of the spectrum in this segment.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    But I will not spend another 1,500 words trying to convince someone, anyone, who hasn't seen them in person but has seen the pictures posted here and has concluded the Audi interiors are cheap. Why not?

    Well put....

    These are perhaps the same people who criticize a car's performance or handling or comfort without even seeing (let alone driving) the car.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    One little thing I wanted to add about interiors.....

    I don't know if anyone else agrees with this sentiment, but I really dislike driving with a steering wheel that has a mix of materials -- in particular, leather and wood. It looks okay, for the most part, but when it actually comes to driving, the difference in texture between one section and the next can really get distracting. I suppose that when I'm making a turn, I like to feel one steady texture all the way around.... no surprises.

    Don't know if I made my point very clear.... but anyone know what I'm saying?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I'm not sure if it just because I was so in love with the previous A6 or that you're right, but I agree here.

    The new A6's interior looks cluttered, like they were going for a mini-A8 look, but didn't have the room. The problem is that the climate controls, vents and nav screen are all bunched together and don't look like anything. It pure function, but no form imo. That flat, plain plastic behind the screen also looks very, very plain to me. The old A6 does look better to me.

    M
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    I really dislike driving with a steering wheel that has a mix of materials -- in particular, leather and wood. It looks okay, for the most part, but when it actually comes to driving, the difference in texture between one section and the next can really get distracting.

    I know what you mean, and I totally agree. it's the thing I like the least about the interior of my Lexus LS. It seems like pure style over function.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Gasp! Thats exactly what it is, form (and a tacky one at that) over function, imo. Most of Lexus' supporters talk like a luxury car isn't complete with a gaudy wooden steering wheel, and regularly knock the Germans for not having them standard. :confuse: Thank goodness Audi came to their senses and got rid of that truly awful wooden steering wheel on the 2005 A8 W12.

    image
    I would have thought most Lexus owners would fall in love with such a steering wheel.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Purely a prestige thing I guess.
    It's a good thing for MB that most of its customer base probably doesn't read the magazine comparos.
    I haven't read a MB sedan rave in quite a long time.
    Does anybody recall a MB sedan coming in at least second in any comparo over the last 5 years?
    Yet I wouldn't hesitate for even one second if someone offered me a test drive in an E or an S.


    Well the E did win a C&D comparo back in 2003 and it did finish higher than the new 5-Series and A6 in the last C&D comparo. Raves? See the new S-Class or any the E-Class when it first appeared. Magazines are looking for the best when it comes to sport, something Mercedes isn't really trying to do with a car like the E-Class or until recently the C-Class. Magazine comparos aren't going to make or break sales for any brand because the 5-Series, going by the magzines isn't the benchmark it once was, yet it has never been more popular. Come on now, please to imply that Mercedes buyers don't read magazines comparos any less than Lexus, Audi, Jaguar or BMW buyers do - as the reason why Mercedes is still able to sell cars...is a little far fetched. If that was the case, only BMW and now Infiniti would be able to sell anything, because Lexus, Audi, Acura, and poor old Jaguar aren't winning anything either. Its all BMW and Infiniti. These comparos have very little to with who buys what. All of these brands have scored a win here and there with either this class or the full size class (well except Jaguar).

    M
  • Speaking of Audis and BMWs here only:

    I would argue that for a lot of folks their opinion of the interior can be hugely influenced by the color scheme (what Audi used to call atmospheres).

    My 2003 allroad had the beige brown cricket leather with a beige dash.

    My 2005 A6 has amaretto leather and the dash is black.

    I look at this combination as being warm and inviting, comfortable like a fine high-back leather chair in a banker's club.

    I probably would be depressed and gloomy if the interior (like so many BMW's) would be black, black, black. All grey, too, would probably look good for a nano second then be cold, sterile and too uber modern for me.

    My wife's BMW with its teracotta interior and huge glass sunroof is, likewise, inviting.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    "or until recently the C-Class"

    It doesnt appear that they've really succeeded at that. C&D tested the C350 "sport" with the MT in the November issue, and did not have a lot of nice things to say about it. They implied that if it had been in their big entry-lux sport comparo, it would've placed 4th or 5th. The last line is what really killed it though, "We were hoping for the poor man's C55, but what we got is the poor man's Benz".
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well considering their previous efforts I disagree that the test was as bleak as you make it sound. The biggest thing they harped about was the C350 looking like a C230, and a little too much understeer, hardly the loser you make it out to be. All the traditional Benz things - ride, quality, solidity are there, if not the sportiest sedan around.

    The actual quote was: "We were awaiting a poor man's C55, and we got what appears to be a poor man's Benz"

    You took out the word "appears", big difference LG. I took that as meaning they got what looks like a C230, but isn't. Or in short its more capable than it looks.

    A pleasing manual-transmission Benz that doesn't look as special as it should.

    Doesn't sound all bad to me, hardly a penalty box. Some of the editors on the side had some good things to say also. It wasn't all bad by any stretch.

    C350 Sport

    M
  • rich545rich545 Posts: 386
    I also happen to find that light wood Audi uses to be pretty horrible, but love the A8 interior with darker wood. My wife's steering wheel is both wood and leather and I don't mind it. It certainly is somewhat Lexus-like though, and I do prefer the full leather wrapped wheel in my car. In general, I think the only thing I don't like about the new Audi interiors is their steering wheels. I just think the center part is too large and looks somewhat like an American car. On another note, I wonder if so many people would have a problem with the screens for MMI, iDrive and COMMAND if they all had the ability to be hidden like they can be in the A8. I thought that was kind of neat how it has the wood covering. Like everything else though, I guess this debate on interiors is a personal preference thing. I like the new Audi interiors better than the previous generation, but others here don't. Go figure.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I am not one who usually boasts about Acuras but here is some interesting news from Honda:

    According to today's Wall Street Journal Honda already has developed a rear-wheel-drive prototype and is weighing the possibility of launching it as the next-generation Acura RL .

    With TL torque steer I hope Honda will consider at least a AWD version . A RWD TL would be very interesting.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I like the A8's covered screen a lot. The SC430 has a similar wood cover, and in that car they've managed to make a covered touch screen, which I dont think anyone else has done. The pop up screen in the G35 is nice, but I think the one that Volvo uses is a little too far back in the top of the dash.

    Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but I just dont find anything particularly luxurious or elegant about a big LCD screen. I'd rather not have to see it if I'm not using it. It would definitely be nice if the LS had something like the SC.
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    According to today's Wall Street Journal Honda already has developed a rear-wheel-drive prototype and is weighing the possibility of launching it as the next-generation Acura RL .

    What do reports about the next gen-RL appearing so soon after the major RL redesign mean? :confuse: The second-gen RL has only been out one year :blush:
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I noticed the same bit of info at the end of C&Ds news report about Honda's prototype HCCI hybrid four cylinder engine.

    "In related news, the story also said that Honda is considering developing a series of rear-wheel-drive cars and may launch one as the next-generation Acura RL in the U.S." I say, its about time. A SH-AWD car developed from a FE\RWD platform with proper weight distribution could have superb handling.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    Means that Honda doesn't breast its cards as well as Toyota... ;)
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    The next thing you know they'll be talking about offering a V8! And everybody knows they don't need that to be competitive! :P
  • rich545rich545 Posts: 386
    After seeing how Audi does it, even in the A6 with a flat screen on the dash rather than the extra hump that I have for it in my BMW I'd have to say I wouldn't mind it if BMW would figure out a way to make the screen less obvious. I don't mind the screen much, but if I could hide it when I don't need it I'd be all for that (particularly if it's behind a nice wood panel). Currently I can only turn the screen off. It's intersting that Audi chose not to cover it in the A6 (trying to keep costs down maybe?). I would definitely say that BMW seems to make the screens the most pronounced of any that I've seen.
  • dan339gdan339g Posts: 56
    "My 2005 A6 has amaretto leather and the dash is black".

    What color is your exterior? I find the amaretto very attactive, but I'm leaning towards "Atlas Gray" for the exterior color, and am not sure how a brown interior goes with a gray exterior. My alternative would be the platinum interior to go with the Gray, but I fear it would look a bit sterile. Keep in mind this from a guy who wears white shirts to work because he has no "color sense" :-)

    Thanks.
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