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Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    Has anyone used these tires on any LPS sedan? They are the highest rated Ultra High Performance All-Season tires on tirerack.com

    I am hoping someone on this board has real life experience with them. :shades:
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detailv4.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=754189&FOLDER%3C%3Efo- - lder_id=113261&bmUID=1130518303370

    Most Reliable Sedans: Lexus GS300/GS430, Infiniti M35/M45, Lexus IS300 (2005), Honda Accord Hybrid, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord 4-cyl., Lexus LS430.

    Average Reliability: Acura RL, Toyota Avalon

    Least Reliable Sedans: Jaguar S-Type, Lincoln LS, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Saab 9-3, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, BMW 5 Series (V8), Audi A8, Chrysler 300 (V8), BMW 7 Series.
  • All,

    I have a Passport 8500 radar detector that I've have for a couple of years and three cars (03 Infiniti G35 Sport Coupe, 04 TL, 05 TL and now the 05 RL). It's been rock solid until the RL.

    Now, not that I'm condoning or advocating driving beyond the spped limit, but if any of you notice this problem, let me me know your thoughts; I want to be informed before asking the dealer about it.

    Here's the situation. You must be travelling steady at 80 mph or above and the car must be in 5th gear. Switch to manual mode and using either the shifter or paddle shifters, manually downshift to third gear - the Passport 8500 goes off with the same tone & volume as if you were directly hit with a radar gun.

    This issue is repeatable over and over again. I live in Philly tested this scenario for three days now on different roads. Repeatable every single time.

    Keep in mind, if you're in 4th gear and manually downshift to 3rd, it won't happen.

    Anyone else seeing this? Any comments or suggestions? Is there any EMI emmitting from the tranny (can't believe that)??

    All comments are appreciated. I'd like to be fully armed with information prior to asking the dealer about it because I'm expecting some BS answer.

    Thanks!
  • docnukemdocnukem Posts: 485
    That is the car sending an RF signal to Acura to void your warranty :) . What do your RPMS surge to when shifting from fifth to third doing 80 (and higher)?

    In the M, at 80, the engine is already at 3100 or so in fifth.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    If we can't use ALG's forward-looking residual prediction numbers, that should we use Consumer Reports' forward looking reliability ratings? (Double standard?)
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    If we can't use ALG's forward-looking residual prediction numbers, that should we use Consumer Reports' forward looking reliability ratings? (Double standard?)

    :confuse: who is ALG and why can't you use them :confuse: :sick:

    I thought information/data was just that :shades:

    BTW: CR's ratings are based on member feedback. So they are forward looking only in the sense that the ratings are technically based on historic records. Therefore EVERY rating would be forward looking for new car purchases.
  • Sedans featuring the most number of colors: Lexus, Mercedes, BMW

    Sedans featuring average number of colors: Audi, Saab, VW, Chrysler, Jaguar

    Sedans featuring the least number of colors: Honda, Toyota and Trabant.

    Yes, I know it is sarcastic -- but what cars are the most "satisfying" to drive, which ones perform just as good at 120 as at 60, which ones have the coolest features (as picked by the cool police?)

    In a world where the cars in every way, save reliability, we identical, reliability becomes of utmost importance.

    There are people, to this very day, who will rank the important attributes of automotive "bliss" and inevitably place reliability in the fourth quartile of importance. Those who buy based heavily on reliability are entitled to do so, but I find these rankings about as relevant as the number of color choices in the brochure in terms of my "driving pleasure."

    Of course, even my poorly rated Audis over the years have never been so unreliable as to deter me from repeat ownership. And, even my recent near brush with buying a new Infiniti was not because of reliability it was because of price for comparable performance as perceived by me, the guy writing the check.

    :shades:
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    My point was that a couple days ago I brought up the point that BMW has won ALG's (Automotive Lasing Guide... they advise and set leasing residuals) award for a few straight years for highest residual values for a brand. I also brought up KBB and their "Resale Value Award" given to BMW.....

    I was battered back by all the Lexus-Lovers here that dismissed anything from ALG or KBB because it was only "forward looking" and a "guess".... They wanted to look at previous examples.

    So now the same people who wouldn't consider ALG or KBB a legitimate reference are now claiming CR as a legitimate source for future reliability of current year models..... Isn't that kind of strange and quite a double standard? Hmmmm......
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    ... but what cars are the most "satisfying" to drive, which ones perform just as good at 120 as at 60, which ones have the coolest features ... There are people, to this very day, who will rank the important attributes of automotive "bliss" and inevitably place reliability in the fourth quartile of importance. Those who buy based heavily on reliability are entitled to do so, but I find these rankings about as relevant as the number of color choices in the brochure in terms of my "driving pleasure."

    Well unless there in one and only one car that will "satisfy," then why not use reliablity as an important factor in the decision process? In my case performance at 120 mph is irrelevant (and I wish all who drove that speed on a public road here in the US would be arrested and deprived of a driver's license for life!).

    Obviously driving pleasure (at normal daily driving speeds only) and cool features rank at the top of the selection criterion. But just as certainly (assuming there is more than one car left on your list) reliability, and even color, become important selection criteria as well.

    Perhaps an important selection crieteria for some cars needs to be what type loaner the dealer provides, because with some cars one will find themselves in a loaner a significant percentage of the time :shades:
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    So now the same people who wouldn't consider ALG or KBB a legitimate reference are now claiming CR as a legitimate source for future reliability of current year models..... Isn't that kind of strange and quite a double standard? Hmmmm......

    Well I was the one who posted the CR Reliability link and I am on record as allowing all real info/data to be used. I am a big fan of KBB and couldn't imagine not consulting them on any used car transaction :surprise:

    Any one who limits the available data set is asking for trouble. Data is data; its up to the individual what to make of it or how to use it. :shades:
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    " I'd like to be fully armed with information prior to asking the dealer about it because I'm expecting some BS answer."

    This one is wierd...you won't get any BS from me...curious though ...when you get your answer please report back.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    msu79gt82,

    true, but maybe you can answer this:

    Why do BMWs based on KBB , ALG and Kelley's Blue Book have the highest residual values? Has it something to do with customer satisfaction? Does reliability play a big role in determing resale value or is it just a fact that BMWs are so fun to drive?
  • Docnukem - good one!

    Seriously, I'm not really sure what the RPSs are doing this since I am fixated on reproducing the problem, and it's repeatable everytime.
  • JJAcura,

    The folks at Acurazine claim they've seen this before. Their reply is listed below:

    This was a big topic at NASIOC when I got my STI. The V1s and Passports do this because of a spike in voltage. The fix is to hard wire the detector for power. Using the plug in a power outlet or lighter will cause this problem.
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    true, but maybe you can answer this:

    Hey guys, don't shoot the messenger. In the spirit of information sharing, I merely posted a link to CR's latest reliability ratings. Why the negativity :confuse: :sick:
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Hey guys, don't shoot the messenger.

    Ok, Ok but what do I do with all my ammunition? :D
  • Data is data, of that there is no argument. Data, however, is only sometimes information.
  • The car that remains capable and inspires confidence at 120 often will be more capable, comfortable, safer and prudent -- not to mention fun to drive -- at 60. I am not suggesting that here in the US we immediately become in the habit of driving about double the speed limit.

    I am advocating, however, cars that are at complete ease in all senses of the word at such speeds.

    I often find those who regularly drive above 80 do so in cars that, while capable of such speeds, have inadequate tires, brakes, suspension geometry, etc to do so with impunity and safety.

    That rickety old Neon passing me like I am sitting still whilst I am cruising along at 70 or 75 is cause for me to agree with you regarding the consequences you suggest.

    It would seem to me to be a reasonable approach to put some things in context. I think it would be acceptable to evaluate the punishment, in part, based on the total package -- a rattle trap at speed may be more dangerous to the other drivers (all other things being equal) than a well maintained and competent vehicle.

    Evaluations that include the car's capabilities and competence could be created to limit the legal speed based on many attributes. When I took the driving school sponsored by Audi in the winter, the cars had "limit" indicators on the bumpers and in view of the driver. When I asked what they indicated, the instructors told us that a car with four studded winter tires was limited by law to 120kph (~ 70MPH), and then when summer tires were put on the car that limit was raised.

    When these cars become even more alike than they are currently, reliability IMHO will become a significant factor influencing sales. The fact that the BMW and Mercedes 5 and E top the LPS sales charts indicates the relatively low relevance of CR's "reliability" rankings.

    Again, what colors are available? And how many of them can I choose from.

    One opinion. That's all.
  • Fun to drive. But you knew that already.

    Judge Wapner at 4:00, Wapner at 4:00.

    - Rain Man
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Turbo diesels for me -- would I, if I but could.

    markcincinnati,

    I heard rumors that there will be turbodiesel versions of Audi in North America? What are the prospects of such an intro?

    There already exists a turbodiesel luxury sedan on our shores and it is called the Mercedes Benz 320CDI ! Unfortunately it is not availabe with a manual transmission! :cry:
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    I was battered back by all the Lexus-Lovers here that dismissed anything from ALG or KBB because it was only "forward looking" and a "guess".... They wanted to look at previous examples.

    Actually, that discussion was on the "High End Luxury Marques" forum, which covers sedans one cost level up from those covered on this LPS forum. And the crux of that discussion was that the best measure of individual model value retention was arguably recent historical value, rather than future predictions from any source (such as ALG or KBB). But I agree that any source of data is worth considering, but has to be weighed against all info available.

    To me, this means that CR's ratings of reliability that are based on the reported real world experience of owners are quite valuable - but that historical data becomes much less meaningful when a whole new model is first introduced. That's the case with the new M; the repair history of the previous model doesn't tell you very much about what will occur with the current one. Of course, the history of the manufacturer in general gives some indication; but it seems pretty much conjecture to say that any brand new model will be the most reliable car available 3 years from its introduction.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    We have a China Cabinet in our dining room that has an adjustible light that gets brighter each time you touch the door hinge....and that's fine...but at various times and for no rhyme or reason the light goes on, (on it's own) and was starting to concern my wife. (Spooks in the night!) We were informed recently that it is caused by a power surge in the electrical system of the home. :cry:
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    What happens when a Ghost (driving a Celestial Silver RL) gets lost in the fog?....He is mist! :sick:

    `'Tis some visitor,' I muttered, `tapping at my chamber door -
    Only this, and nothing more.--The Raven...Poe 1845......'Happy Halloween :surprise:
  • IMO, even though BMW may have high residuals, when you lease, that would give them the lowest lease, but in my experience they have very high lease payments. So I find their boasts of high residuals of little value in real life payment terms (at least for a lease).
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    rather than future predictions from any source (such as ALG or KBB).

    These are not just any sources! The three best known sources for residual values are Kelley's Blue Book, ALG and KBB! Just as the CR and JD Powers are known as the best source for reliability/quality measures!

    Is it just a fluke and mere coincidence that ALG, KBB and Kelley's ranks BMW as number one for residual values? I dont think so! To say that they are a fluke is equivalent to saying that the CR and JD Power measures of Toyota/Lexus reliability/quality are a fluke! And we all do know that the CR and JD Power are not perfect measures of reliability! Sort of like ALG, KBB and Kelley's are not perfect measeures for residual values!

    Just as msu79 and markcinicinnati mentioned, stats are just data! And data can create endless arguments!
  • sdiver68sdiver68 Posts: 119
    The Infiniti M has the highest ALG residuals in the LPS class. Maybe BMW overall across all cars, but my M was 3-4% higher (I forget exactly, it was 3 months ago) than the 545 I looked at for the same lease terms.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 28,457
    Actually, BMW lease payments, relative to their MSRPs, are some of the lowest around... Those high residuals really pay off...

    However, if you go shopping for a brand-new model that is selling well... there won't be any incentives...

    Generally, the only cars that are leasing more cheaply (relatively) than BMWs are models that are heavily incentivized, because they have trouble selling them.. Right now, that would be Chrysler Crossfires, and interestingly enough, Honda Ridgelines... just as two examples..

    regards,
    kyfdx
    Host-Prices Paid Forums

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    The three best known sources for residual values are Kelley's Blue Book, ALG and KBB! Just as the CR and JD Powers are known as the best source for reliability/quality measures!

    Not to belabor the point, but you keep citing "three sources", but KBB and Kelley's Blue Book are one and the same. It's like saying Consumer Reports and CR are two sources.

    But more importantly, if you want to get a feel for why "residual predictors" are really just playing a game, read this article reprinted on ALG's web site.

    Out of the Ashes a New Leasing Market Emerges

    Remember, this article is reprinted on the website of the company that actually led the leasing companies into the financial debacle that the article refers to. Of course, "things are different now". Yeah, right; remember when those stock market mavens said that about the high P/E ratios of the dotcom stocks?

    The fact is that predictions are not data, they are forecasts; in contrast, KBB, when it is listing current pricing for used vehicles, is providing data. CR and JD Powers, when they are providing the results of surveys of actual owners, are providing data, not forecasts. But KBB and ALG, when they are predicting which cars will have the best residual values some point in the future, are not providing data.

    You are correct that people can argue over how to weight different data, and even how reliable the sources of data are, but please don't confuse data with forecasts - they're not the same thing.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    My bad about KBB!

    LOL as a Canadian I thought KBB was a US firm I never herard of but is recognized in the US industry as a competior to Kelley's!

    Correct data is differenct from forecasts! But these forecasts reflect some kind of truth about the superiority of BMW residuals! And that is the only point I am making here!
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Posts: 692
    msu79:

    Do you know how the Acura TL did in the reliability ratings?
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