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Luxury Performance Sedans



  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    Hilarious....... There are some Honda haters in the place. I think the RL won fair and square based on the criteria, Luxury, Performance, Value. Say it with me students " Luxury, Performance, Value" Not on just performance [where the bmw would win] Not just on the car that makes the owner file for chapter 11 based on car repair bills [where the bmw would win] Not just on best interior where the lexus would win. Not just on a car that would bore the driver to sleep and cause a horrific interstate pile up [where the lexus would win] Not on a combination of interior, and performance [where the audi would win] [ I have no sarcasm for the Audi, I love it.] But on the three aforementioned benchmarks. Luxury, Performance, and Value. Some of Y'all hate the RL like I hate the 49' ers :cry:
  • rich545rich545 Posts: 386
    Honestly, comparos are useless if they are looked at as a whole. They really only have relevance if you focus on what's important to YOU about the cars being compared. Meaning, if comfort is your thing, focus on the car that wins the comfort battle. If performance is your thing focus on that car, and so on. If all are equally important you're probably being somewhat unrealistic, but you still have to realize that the people doing the comparos are still just stating THEIR opinions. They may not be your's as well. I've said this before here, but how many of us have liked movies that movie critics bash on? I've liked a lot of them so I take the reviews I read with a grain of salt and go see what I want to see. Same with cars. I read the reviews, then I go drive the cars and see if I agree. Often I do not, sometimes I do. Car reviewers are no more or less biased than any of us, and they really aren't professional anythings.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    Other than profesional car reviewers. :confuse:
  • bondguy1bondguy1 Posts: 228
    Like I've been saying from the start when I looked at the Audi A6 and the M35..Both had great performance with the M35 winning out in is quicker. But, again, this is MY OPINION, I am not racing anyone. I wanted a car that had an interior that was worthy of a car in this price range. And, I think the Audi A6 outclasses all cars in interior design in this price class and above. I think as far as the magazine review goes, they hit the nail on the head. For me, at least, the M35 was too over-gadgetized and I think that there are a lot of people obviously that go for that and that's what's important to them. I wanted a world class car and I think the A6 fits the bill best for all around best car (not to mention Double-Best Pick in safety). If Audi can just get a better reputation which will take a few years of lowering there problems, they will earn a lot of new buyers in years to come. As long as they don' t pull the kind of stuff in 3 years from now that they did this year with Mark with pricing and seeming to not care, I would probably be leasing another Audi again.
  • rich545rich545 Posts: 386
    Right, but you understand what I mean. They are professionals in that they are paid to review cars. But they are still just expressing opinions. It's not as if they are any more qualifed to express their opinions or evaluate cars than most of us. What they do have going for them is that generally they get to test more cars for longer than we get to. That, and they get to drive really awesome cars like the Mercedes SLR McLaren!
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    If one looks through the reviews on the net the 5 series is constantly lauded on it's ability to deliver the #1 driving experience. So while some reviewers have bashed the exterior, interior, idrive, reliability etc, they all agree the 5 drives like a dream.

    So there seems to be a big disconnect between the reviewers and the sales of 5, which are quite good compared to the competitors in it's space.

    The people are voting with their pocketbooks, which is the review that really counts to BMW.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    "The fact is though, if you're willing to spend a bit more, the A6 and M35 are just better cars."

    Some how I can't see you owning and driving an A6. But if the Infiniti improved their interior quality I believe that would come close to what you really like.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    It's not a fact. It's your opinion. And we all know what they are just like :P
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Oh I've driven them, but own, no not yet. I've really got to see Audi do better in long term reliability if an Audi is going to be my daily driver.
  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    The fact is though, if you're willing to spend a bit more, the A6 and M35 are just better cars.

    Lexusguy---no, this is not a fact. This is your opinion.

    And we respect that.

    90% of what's in these comparos and also on these boards are just opinions. Let's not confuse them with facts.
  • chef_jmrchef_jmr Posts: 41
    NEW THOUGHT (it's late, I had some great Burgundy (red) tonight, and I'm tired of discussing the supposed "Real Estate Bubble"):

    I have always consider the "value proposition" when making any purchase (digital cameras, big screen TVs, cellphones, computers, cars...even some wine!) However, we are discussing Luxury Performance Sedans; do we look for value in Luxury items? Luxury goods are those that we purchase, not out of need, but desire...?

    In the comparo, where the "Audi A6 snagged a distant second", the writer states the RL has a "standard features list that'll impress the neighbors" (value?) but "lacks in distinctive styling" (luxury?). If it lacks in one area-- luxury--how does it "win" a comparison by a long-shot? What defines the luxury in today's autos? Where does technology surpass fit,finish,materials and styling in a luxury auto?

    Chime in...good night.
  • greenbeltgreenbelt Posts: 55
    I agree with your self assessment.

    Your writings here take up a great deal more space than your preferences about cars do in the marketplace.

    CR, like JDPowers, represents a broad swath of the automobile buyers and goes far beyond the appliance-seeking under-35 family of four. THE dominate segment of buyers of virtually everything in the U.S. economy for the last 40 years, from toys to bikes to college educations to cars to homes to vacations with the grandchildren,has been the now-graying 50+ year old baby boomers.

    The car companies that are addressing this segment with high quality, reliable, sylish, good performing cars are gaining share and making lots of money. Those that aren't dispite adoring fans that love to rant here and there, aren't.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    I think many Acuras are judged as, not doing anything one thing great, but do everything very good. And how can anyone hate the RL or the 49ers :P
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    As far as the forty-niners go, I grew up in the seventies in nor-Cal and everybody loved the Steelers, and hated the niners. When the niners started winning, everyone jumped ship.
    As far as the RL, I think this is one of the most controversial cars in a while as far as people either hate it, or love it. I realize the design is accord-esque, but it seems like people are throwing out the baby with the bathwater. It's kind of like the love em, or hate em attitude towards the last two presidents. Very few people in the middle. If any of the other cars would have won I don't think there would have been as near as much weeping and nashing of teeth. At the same time I'm one of those Acura people that loves almost everything that they put out.. All of this again is just my opinion. All of the cars were awesome and if given one of them, I'm sure not to many of us would complain. Those that would, would complain if they were hung with a brand new rope..... :)
  • bondguy1bondguy1 Posts: 228
    I think that a lot of people if they are happy with there current brand go along with it again...maybe it's the extra loyalty or the no termination fee on a lease that may do it for them. I know that they gave me loyalty of $1,500 on Audi and waived my disposition fee of $250 from my 02'. These aren't the only reasons but sometimes it's just out of convenience. To some people it's just a car and Lexus stands for reliability and quality just like BMW stands for performance. Not that you can't get both in any other or either of these two but most people that I know that drive Lexus whether the LS or GS get another one every three years when lease expires. Nobody I know ever leased an Infinity before the G35 or M35 but maybe those two cars IMO single handedly changed the Infinity company reputation for being able to compete in the sporty and luxury brand sedan markey...because you never see older model M45's on the road (rarely) or Q45's for that matter. Am I right?
  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    The reason you see so few older gen M45s or Q45s is because Infiniti sold relatively few of them in the first place. It's just simple numbers.

    Lexus has sold 10 times as many automobiles as Infiniti over the past decade, spanning mulitple segments. They have established a significant base of brand loyalty. Here in the conservative Midwest, there are still thousands of people who just buy one Buick or Cadillac after another every 3 years. There are fewer of these people with each year, but there are still quite a few based on what I see on the road.

    You said: "G35 or M35 but maybe those two cars IMO single handedly changed the Infinity company reputation for being able to compete in the sporty and luxury brand sedan markey..."

    I think it's much too early to conclude that. I think it takes 3 to 5 years of sustained market acceptance and credibility to reach that point. Lexus has earned that. BMW and Mercedes have earned that. Audi, Infiniti, and Acura are still scratching to try to get there, although each has begun to carve out their unique niches.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    2005 Consumer Reports - AWD Mid-Luxury Sedan Comparison

    The Audi came in the 2nd place again, which is a good consistant showing for Audi. The A6 had the best fuel economy, but got a low score for controls & displays. The RL placed more at the bottom this time and got a low score for trunk space and controls & displays . The GS got the lowest scores for emergency handling and driving position. The STS placed mid-pack, but didn't get good scores for fit & finish and trunk space. The M got a low score for trunk space and fuel economy as did the others with 18 MPG. Trunk space was an issue for all of them. The GS and A6 had the best scores for noise. The M35x is now CR's overall top rated sedan.

    1. Infiniti M35x
    2. Audi A6 3.2 Quattro
    3. Cadillac STS V6
    4. Acura RL
    5. Lexus GS300 AWD

    Infiniti M35x:
    0-60 MPH - 7.0 Seconds
    60-0 MPH - 128 Feet
    Fuel Economy - 18 MPG

    Audi A6 3.2 Quattro:
    0-60 MPH - 7.7 Seconds
    60-0 MPH - 129 Feet
    Fuel Economy - 21 MPG

    Cadillac STS V6:
    0-60 MPH - 7.1 Seconds
    60-0 MPH - 131 Feet
    Fuel Economy - 18 MPG

    Acura RL:
    0-60 MPH 6.9 Seconds
    60-0 MPH 131 Feet
    Fuel Economy - 18 MPG

    Lexus GS300 AWD:
    0-60 MPH - 7.4 Seconds
    60-0 MPH - 133 Feet
    Fuel Economy - 20 MPG

    Credit: DrewSRX
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    This is how the luxury sedans now rank, according to Consumer Reports:

    1. Infiniti M35x
    2. Mercedes-Benz E320
    3. BMW 530i
    4. Audi A6 3.2 Quattro
    5. Cadillac STS V6
    6. Acura RL
    7. Jaguar S-Type 4.2
    8. Lexus GS300 AWD
    9. Volvo S80 T6

    Previously, the Lexus LS430 and E39 BMW 5-Series were the best luxury sedans.

    Credit: DrewSRX
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    According to the last issue of CR, the Avalon was supposed to be included. I'm glad they went with the GS instead. I eliminated the GS because I found it difficult to manipulate the seats to find a comfortable driving position. I see CR agrees with me.
    I pick up my new 545i tomorrow.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Not Steeler fans in nor-Cal, we hated the Steelers, Raider fans in the 70's :P

    Yes, these are all truely great cars. I am a new fan of Acura and think the TL is a far more exciting design than the RL, however, I test drove the RL and loved it.
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