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Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    Beav, don't be a goof. I posted that yesterday. :P

    Like I said, I'll believe it when I see it.

    The wagon is better looking than the sedan, one has to admit. Still kinda pug-ugly, IMO. But it would still rock like Angus in short pants, I'm thinkin'...
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    You cant really blame Mercedes for the tires. 35K miles is not exactly unusual for performance tires. There are many with tread life ratings much lower than that.

    Speaking of bad loaners, Jag once stuck me with a Ford Taurus. I wasnt pleased about that.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    .. At least until the next E comes along packing AMG's new from the ground up 6.3L V8, at which point the M5 will be "pretty good".
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Posts: 647
    I've been shopping all of the vehicles on this forum, and I think others doing the same would be interested to know that there are an increasing number of options to choose from. I'd almost settled on a M35, but I continue to look because there are some surprises out there that not only surpassed my expectations, but also are relative bargains. I try and keep an open mind, and not be swayed by marketing driven brand hype.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    The proper decorum for this thread has been established ad nauseum by our illustrious host that we try to restrict ourselves to the above mentioned vehicles and the Avalon and Passat don't qualify.

    Also, I think I can safely say I do speak for most people who regularly visit the LPS thread that we surely don't want to hear that we can save some money by considering the Avalon and Passat instead of the Audi, Acura, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Infiniti and Lexus models labeled above.

    You are preaching to the wrong choir. :sick:
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I kind of like those descriptions.
    Much better than those I hear after coming home at midnight after a wild poker game when all I can say is "DOH!"
    I resemble those remarks! ;)
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I guess I am the bearer of musty old news again!

    I should stop getting my information from historic archives and start reading the news instead!

    So what does everybody think about the 1955 MB 300SL? ;)
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    You should shop what you want. I go into a new purchase surveying all options, and cast out those that don't appeal.

    I go into a thread about Lux Perf cars looking to discuss those. Nice and/or competent as they may or may not be, the Avalon and Passat are not in the category being discussed. They are available, have been noted, and other than an occasional passing reference are best covered in threads created for such purpose.

    You could create a new thread if you like. Perhaps something like Avalon/Passat v. Lux Perf Sedans.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    LOL!

    Just giving you a hard time, lad! ;)
  • warthogwarthog Posts: 216
    The airbag thing is really troubling. The phone's an annoyance. But you got 35K on tires on a LPS? And you're complaining? Have you busted the 65mph cherry on your S?
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    My last set of rubber went 13K. These guys are right, 35K is muy fabuloso! :)
  • Where oh where can we discuss the Trabant [if not here]? :D

    Agree, I participate over at the Passat and X3 forums -- the Avalon is not the subject here, nor is the Passat. However, I won't quite go so far as to ostracize folks who mention their names (I'll leave that to the hosts.)

    I just got the Audi A6 survey # 2236 from JD Powers with the $1.00 bill in it. I am so sick of these surveys, why can't they survey us on the WWW and give us a credit at Amazon or something -- I detest filling in those little opti scan circles. After the first survey, I just pocket the buck.

    Again, I know I am a bad person -- but they should automate this by making it an e-survey.

    End of small rant
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I don't mind seeing their names every once in a while.
    I don't need to be told on the LPS thread that I can save a lot of money by buying a Passat or Avalon instead of an LPS.
    I don't need nor solicit that kind of help here.
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 590
    hpowder, don't worry, i'm a bmw owner and am as much a sucker for brand name as any other upper middle class wannabe on this forum who claims they can dtect a difference between a 5.8 second 0-60 and a 6 second 0-60...

    LOL.

    When i compare an avalon to a M, i'm very much within the limits of this forum because i'm talking about the M. If I were to compare an avalon against an umm pontiac, you could have my butt whacked off..

    lastly nobody is dictating you to go buy either an avalon or the passat. this is a discussion bound by the rules of edmunds, not by your or my rules...

    take it easy.
    ;)

    ksso
  • I've had 3 E's: 430 / 55 / 500 in last 8 years and no set has lasted more than 20k. Same for an earlier LS400 w/Z tires. I'd love to see 35k! As for the MB, my current E500 (2003) is gorgeous but the electronics (phone / cd / muting) are infuriating. Plus I had 4 windshield leak issues, the last of which fried my under-seat processor for the Xeon headlamps. My next car (January) will be either M45S or 550i. Gotta give MB a penalty box for now...
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The low profile 18" UHP summer tires on my Jag last 15K tops. I just put on a set of Goodyear Eagle F1s, which I think are an even better match to the car than the OEM Continentals. The 280 treadlife is also quite nice for this type of tire, most are rated half of that.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Unfortunately the article linked below does not provide any details about the new infiniti G35 engine, but at least we will get an idea of how the new re-skinned G35 will look like when viewed at the NY Auto Show

    2007 G35
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    I predict you will find the rain performance outstanding, LG.

    I'm on set number two of the DS-G3s, and I'm a happy camper. The sidewall is a touch softer than some of the competition, for which I compensate with a few extra psi, but the dry traction is at the top of the scale and the wet is unreal...
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Interesting, I've yet to run into a bad rainstorm in the Jag, but thats good to know. I was not impressed with the Pirelli and Toyo tires that I tried on the car, but I think the ride with the GYs is a bit better than the oem ContiSportContacts. In a related note, C&D has a comparison of 11 UHP tires, in which the GS-D3s placed first overall, with the Continentals in second.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=10252&page_number=1
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    Does marketing work? As my old marketing book noted - there are 20 mountains higher than Pike's Peak in Colorado - name one. In the LPS market Pike's Peak = BMW and MB. The other contenders in the LPS market are like the other 20 mountains. They may be higher but they need to work extra hard to earn the name recognition of Pike's Peak.

    Back in the 70s Cadillac tried to sell a tool kit for their cars for $20. No one bought them so what did Cadillac do? They gold plated the exact same tools and charged $100. Now they couldn't keep them in stock. People falsely equated cost with quality and prestige - you get what you pay for? Doubtful, but their is no way that BMW and MB can compete on price - need that gold plating prestige.

    A "premium" vodka is Grey Goose. It's drinkers swear it's the best. So 20/20 did a blind taste test. The predictable results - Grey Goose was actually chosen as one of the worst tasting vodkas. If it were somehow possible to do a blind driving test of the LPS I suspect that many would choose a car other than their own as the best handling, most luxurious etc. Preconceived biases have a far greater effect on how well the buyer thinks a particular car handles in everyday driving than the actual handling characteristics of the car.

    A majority of LPS owners (this forum represent the more "hard-core" LPS buyers and not the majority) made a lifestyle choice when buying their car. Buying a BMW or MB says "I feel good about my success and have rewarded myself with a prestigious car". Owners know that when others see their car they will also equate that with their success thereby adding to the good feeling. Then there is that notion of buying superior "German Engineering"!? Despite their well documented reliability issues, poor electronics etc. this notion is still held today. Do you think a majority of LPS buyers read or even care what CR, MT etc. say about this market?

    So do people buy the badge? IMHO - you bet your sweet bibby they do! BMW and MB still own the LPS swagger in the USA and will continue to do so for quite some time.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    Doh! :D I almost finished your post before realizing it wasn't from Mark Cincinnati :surprise: It was a fairly long post...you started with a question... you added a bit of wry humor....you talked about the 70's...you threw in some obscure, albeit resourceful logic...and you end with a colloquialism phrase. Did you guys attend the same writing class? (End of smaller rant!);)
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    So do people buy the badge? IMHO - you bet your sweet bibby they do! BMW and MB still own the LPS swagger in the USA and will continue to do so for quite some time.

    I keep on hearing the same question in many forums?

    The fact of the matter is that most people buy a BMW because most models have the best drivetrains/chassis combo in the industry. Customers love the way they drive and based on JD Power and Consumer Reports figures most BMW models(except the 7 series) are not unreliable

    So does that mean there are no BMW badger hunters? Ofcourse there are! There are as many BMW badge hunters as there are Lexus badge hunters, especially among the majority of Lexus owners who feel distinguished by buying a Lexus RX330/ES330 versus a Toyota Highlander/Camry!
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    In your free time go to

    www.chronocentric.com/watches/brands.shtml

    and read the parts about "Aren't Rolex the best watches in the world?" and "If Rolex is not the only superior watch brand, why haven't I heard of these other watches?". Let's not underestimate the importance of the 1980's yuppies on the popularity of German sedans. I was a yuppie back then (hate to admit it though) and had to own that Porsche. Remember how they went from exclusive to common? How did that eventually work out?

    I feel honored to be compared with Mark but he is definitely the "luxury" writer in this forum. I'm a want-to-be envious of Marks' writing abilities.
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    The fact of the matter is that most people buy a BMW because most models have the best drivetrains/chassis combo in the industry.

    Couldn't actually find this info in my book of facts. It's your opinion (and I know it's not based on your bias) and may be correct for most BMW owners on this forum - however I'm not sure it applies to most 5-series buyers who never bless us with their company.

    Lexus badge hunters, especially among the majority of Lexus owners who feel distinguished by buying a Lexus RX330/ES330 versus a Toyota Highlander/Camry!

    Hmm...longer warranty, better customer service experience, slightly higher quality of materials.....
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    >>>The fact of the matter is that most people buy a BMW because most models have the best drivetrains/chassis combo in the industry.>>>

    Couldn't actually find this info in my book of facts. It's your opinion (and I know it's not based on your bias) and may be correct for most BMW owners on this forum


    Pick up any magazine/newspaper/online comparo and most will agree with the BMW drive... Obviously it's a subjective rating, but if virtually all professional comparo people say the same thing year after year, there must be something to it.
  • WHoaaa.....slow down on the sarcasm if you want to follow in the footsteps of the Master (even if within the sarcasm, truth lies) ;)
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    Oops...I didn't mean to imply anything negative about the BMW drive....it's just that for a majority of drivers I'm not sure that was the biggest (or only) consideration for their purchase/lease. That was the "fact of the matter" I was questioning. For the enthusiasts on this forum, most likely, but for those buying say a 525 without the sport package, not so sure.

    Anyhow I originally just wondered about the psychological motivation behind LPS purchases and what role the badge had in that process. Debating which LPS is the best car is not my intent. Prestige, ego-stroking and brand are important for the sales of all luxury goods (Rolex watches, Chanel Handbags etc.) so it does have an impact on LPS sales.
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    >>>The fact of the matter is that most people buy a BMW because most models have the best drivetrains/chassis combo in the industry.>>>

    Couldn't actually find this info in my book of facts. It's your opinion (and I know it's not based on your bias) and may be correct for most BMW owners on this forum

    Pick up any magazine/newspaper/online comparo and most will agree with the BMW drive...


    Hey, I think you misunderstood DrT's point: Even if it is a widely held and therefore true "fact" that BMWs have the best drive train/chassis combo, whether that is the primary reason people buy BMWs (as opposed to its status, or its included maintenance plan, or whatever) is a separate issue and NOT itself a "fact" - unless you have some marketing survey of BMW buyers that you would like to share with us.

    Hey, I think the above qualifies as the longest sentence I've ever written for a forum!

    Subsequent edit: DrT posted simultaneously his own explanation consistent with what I wrote above. I should have known he didn't need my defense...
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    I always wondered what happened to those yuppies of the 80's. Too busy keeping the family headed in the right direction to notice. Thanks for the URL on the Rolex story. It was excellant reading.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Just read an Edmunds Inside interview with BMW Chairman Helmut Panke!

    BAD NEWS FROM BMW

    Everything in this interview curbed my enthusiasm about the future of BMW. Here are the three main points that I found least exciting:

    1)Regarding the upcoming 1 series in North America:

    Q:Is a three-box sedan more likely?
    A:There are many alternatives. We have not given that away, but it's not going to be a hatch.


    I would never ever consider buying a 1 series unless it was a hatchback! I would favor an Audi A3 hatch versus a unpractical sub-compact sedan 1 series.

    2) In the interview Mr. Panke talks about two vehicles: a crossover version of the X5 series and a "functional concept vehicle"

    IMO BMW will begin to spread itself far too thin with these minivan variations! It should remain a niche player and focus on its strengths: sport performance cars!

    3) Also he talked about a hydrogen BMW 7 series! I just cant wait to read future posts in this forum about the CR reliability of a hydrogen 7 series vehicle ;)
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