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Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    Cars that have serious reliability problems do not sell.

    au contraire..... Mercedes reliability issues are well documented yet they sell extremely well. Their E-series is the top selling LPS year-to-date. I have become quite friendly with my M-B service department (that's what happens when you buy one) and he told me that the service department's best customer is MBUSA - because of all the warranty work they perform. I have even joked with him that M-B has to charge an extra $10K per car just to cover warranty repairs.

    IMHO Mercedes Benz is synonymous with Luxury Sedan or something that is the best. Much like the brand Kleenex has come to refer to all tissues. A local dealer advertises that they are the Mercedes Benz of Mercedes Benz dealers meaning that they are the best M-B dealer - and everyone understands their message. Why does M-B sell so well - because they are Mercedes. Their badge is gold although it may have lost a little luster of late.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I'm missing the point of what 42 and B'way has to do with anything. People buy cars for their reasons, not your reasons or my reasons. I personally do not give a whit for the reasons that people buy a specific car. It's none of my business.
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    I would venture to say that a majority of LPS buyers are really not that into the performance characteristics of their cars. How many E350 and 525i buyers are really concerned about their slalom times, push their car to even half of their handling capability or really know how to drive like amateur race car drivers? I know everyone on this board is but we do not really represent the majority of LPS buyers. A majority of LPS buyers choose the 6 cylinder engine and really want automatic transmissions, sunroofs, luxurious comfort, safety features and possibly the badge (snob appeal). Bluetooth connectivity seems to be one of the highest priorities. A similar phenomenon occurs with SUV buyers. How many 4-wheel drive SUVs ever leave the mall parking lot jungle for the serious off-roading they were designed for and emphasized in their advertising?

    Back in my motorcycle days, many bought high performance bikes because some magazine said it was the "best handling" or had the "best performance". Many buyers of these bikes did not have the slightest skills necessary to push these bikes anywhere near their limits and easily got in over their heads when they tried. They should have bought cruisers assuming they didn't kill themselves first. But they wanted to look like performance studs instead - is that a "poser" quality?

    I'm not claiming any of the preceding as facts....just one man's opinion.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    Good to see a fellow 2005 RL owner in the LPS forum...
    Your postings help keep things on an even keel!

    Happy Thanksgiving!
    (Going home for the Holidays?)
  • Just a few ideas on that. First, if you are looking at Mercedes and BMW, an E class is going to be more comparable to a 5 series Bimmer, the C class competes more with the 3 series, the similarities are strong in size and cost. Check out Cars.com or google used cars, you'll find all the variety you want, and can compare selling prices.

    If you are getting a used car, most dealers have certified used available. If not, find a mechanic to check it out when you get it narrowed down. Finally, if you put down $10K, if you're north of insolvent, a dealer will get you financed.
  • You want to drive what every other Tom, Dick and Mary does - buy a Lexus. If you want a superior car in every sense of the word, buy an M from Infiniti. Incase you haven't even driven one, you might want to see what all the fuss is about.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    Assumption here on the P-factor is that there is no benefit derived from a superior handling product at levels not even approaching limits. I don't buy that. IMO, the P-factor gives evidence of benefit in merely "spirited" driving, and for those of us who won't take them to a track but still go out of our way to take the road less straightened and regularly eschew freeways for backroads, the benefits are substantial.

    Your insight on SUVs OTOH...
  • While I agree the M is a great car in many senses of the word, and it is probably superior in some senses of the word, it is NOT superior in every sense of the word (and none of these cars are.) :surprise:

    In fact, I would venture to say the differences [between this group's members] from many perspectives are subtle.

    Now styling, colors, ergonomics (to a point) some switchgear and appointments do rise to an area that cannot be said to be "subtle."

    But the differences noted that are not subtle are entirely subjective with the possible exception of some ergonomic choices made.

    Here in Cincinnati the "most common" car is probably the BMW, the least common the Infiniti.

    If all you wanted was to drive a car that few people have you certainly could choose almost any but the Mercedes and the BMW.

    The M is great -- it is not superior. In many ways the M is an also ran -- in a crowd of mostly superior cars.

    Heck, if someone would make the $ attractive enough, the STS AWD would certainly be a great car too.

    Come to think of it, perhaps the Acura RL is the least seen car around these parts.

    The RL, too, is a great car -- but, again, running with this crowd, finding a clearly superior car is, shall we say, "challenging!"

    If you are new to this forum be aware we all have strong opinions and we aren't afraid to share them.

    Mostly, however, you will find if YOU extensively test cars in this class, comparably equipped (not perhaps simply comparably priced) -- AND you test the cars over the same test route -- you will find the attributes that appeal to you are probably more subjective than most of us care to admit.

    Speaking as the converted -- a man who could never even imagine any car but an Audi was worth a tinker's cuss, i.e., then ordered an M35x, only to have Audi make me a deal $ I could not refuse, etc. -- I cannot imagine feeling I had gotten a short shrift with most of these cars from a "content" standpoint.

    Styling preferences abound -- as do some measurable performance differences (but check out the stats, they are all pretty close to one another), overall though these cars seem to be acquired, not bought or leased, based mostly on subjective (emotional/passionate) criteria.

    This class of cars is where the fuss is about, perhaps THAT we might mostly agree upon.

    Probably not though.

    Drive it like you live. :shades:
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    I am not saying there is or is not a conspiracy. But your statement is not a valid reason as there is not one.

    The free maintenance has nothing to do with failed components. Maintenance includes things such as filter change---can be viewed as a lump sum discount at purchase. It's the warranty that is related to the "conspiracy." However, BMW's warranty, at 4 years, is the same as everyone else.


    If you don't maintain your car well, then you'll certainly end up with more problems down the line....

    There are a lot of people out there that push out that oil change for another few hundred or thousand miles or take the car to Jiffy Lube for a service interval when they find the time or money....

    If you have free maintenance, then you can bet BMW owners will get their service done. No reason to neglect it or put it off.
  • Good to see a fellow 2005 RL owner in the LPS forum...
    Your postings help keep things on an even keel! Happy Thanksgiving! (Going home for the Holidays?)


    Thanks, always good to see your postings too. Happy Thanksgiving. Not going home until Christmas.

    Hope you're enjoying your RL as much as I am!
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    BMW's use synthetic oil.
    Oil changes are at around 12,000 miles.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    I really am enjoying the RL a lot...it will be a year old on Saturday. For us it was a leap at the beginning and I remember coming into the Edmunds RL forum about 18 months ago to read opinions from some really interesting enthusiasts of all kinds about the new RL, including some of the people that we continue to read in the LPS forum. This particular car has been a pleasure to own and just about flawless. When you get excited about the car you own and can't wait to climb into it then what other car desires do you need. I continue to enjoy reading the posts though...very good stuff here. Probably more honest than you find in the Mags.
  • I started reading about the new RL on these boards over two years ago after I first heard about the complete redesign. At that time, I had a 99 RL which I liked, but it was a little boring, though paid for. The more I read about the new RL, the more excited I got. When I heard it was going to be at the New York auto show in April 2004, I drove up to see it. I thought then, and I still do, that it was absolutely stunning. I drove back to DC and went right to my dealership to put a deposit on it. I was the first one out the door with it Oct 14, 2004, so mine is a little over a year old. There have been a couple of minor problems, but all have been fixed. It's a dream to drive and I wouldn't trade it for any of the other cars on this board.
  • Now this is a post I can really appreciate. More than many, this post makes me want to test the RL.

    To underscore the theme, my 6 month old A6 has also been a joy and other than the pushbutton starter replacements, has been a dream to drive and own.

    Unlike nebraskabuy however, I could be persuaded to trade my A6 for perhaps the M35X or a 530xi (stick only), an STS AWD and of course the RL.

    I would have to revisit the Mercedes E 4Matic to determine if it would be placed on my list -- but I suspect it would merit another look see, too.

    Got my winter floor mats, today and a new set of wiper blades (no charge) -- while I was at the dealer they put my new plates on Audi32 -- but I saw a 4.2 Sline while I was there and the wheels alone make the car look soooo good.

    What a great time to own or be in the market for an LPS car!
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    Retro Revival - Lincoln Continental
    http://blogs.edmunds.com/.ee8d8bf

    pop on over and comment!
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    According to Kelley Blue Book, top 10 are, in alphabetical order:

    BMW 5-Series
    Chevrolet Corvette
    Honda Accord Hybrid
    Infiniti G35 Coupe
    Infiniti M45
    Lexus GX 470
    MINI Cooper
    Porsche Cayenne
    Toyota Prius
    Volvo XC90

    Infiniti's the only brand with 2. There's not a single Lexus car or Mercedes vehicle. There are two hybrids. There are 3 SUV's. The only Porsche is Cayenne!!! Corvette is the lone American and sports car.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,593
    BMW 5-Series
    Chevrolet Corvette
    Honda Accord Hybrid
    Infiniti G35 Coupe
    Infiniti M45
    Lexus GX 470
    MINI Cooper
    Porsche Cayenne
    Toyota Prius
    Volvo XC90

    There's not a single Lexus car or Mercedes vehicle.


    Hmmm, so the GX470 doesn't count.
  • There's not a single Lexus car or Mercedes vehicle.

    Hmmm, so the GX470 doesn't count.


    The GX470 is one of the three SUVs to which reference was made.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    As usual, totally confirms what I have been saying here for many months.
    In the real world, regardless of what the many dissenting posters feel, the E60 BMW reigns supreme. No surprise there.
    I was surprised that the LS430 didn't make the list.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    "As usual, totally confirms what I have been saying here for many months. In the real world, regardless of what the many dissenting posters feel, the E60 BMW reigns supreme."

    Err, not exactly. The KBB report gave the best resale value award in the "Luxury" category to the Infiniti M45, not the 5 series.

    2006 BEST RESALE VALUE: CATEGORY
    SEDAN: Honda Accord Hybrid
    LUXURY: Infiniti M45
    COUPE: Infiniti G35 Coupe
    PICKUP: Toyota Tacoma PreRunner
    CONVERTIBLE: Chevrolet Corvette
    SPORT UTILITY: Porsche Cayenne
    WAGON: Subaru Outback
    VAN / MINIVAN: Honda Odyssey
    HATCHBACK: MINI Cooper / Toyota Prius (Tie)

    http://www.autointell-news.com/News-2005/Oct-2005/O-2005-2/O-12-05-p7.htm
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    That's OK powders :surprise: ...it's good to have this forum up and running again. good stuff here! By and large there is mutual respect among owners...how could you not...these are all quality made machines. Once in a while though a responding poster should have access to an animated ROLLEYES emotorcon.(as mentioned by somebody in another forum) I could see it! :P
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Yeah, I'd like an icon like that everytime someone posts that anybody who doesnt buy either a Ford Taurus or Chevy Impala is a Communist.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I believe I still have some turkey tryptophan in my system as I completely overlooked that the list was in alphabetical order.
    I let the late, great Chester A Riley speak for us humbled E60 owners as he said it best: "What a revoltin' development this is!" ;)
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    "....anybody who doesnt buy either a Ford Taurus or Chevy Impala is a Communist."

    Senator Joe McCarthy (Regretfully from my home state) just rolled over in his grave when you mentioned Communist. Glad none of his surviving stock took up that cause! We might all be driving Detroit sleds.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Senator Joe McCarthy (Regretfully from my home state) just rolled over in his grave when you mentioned Communist. Glad none of his surviving stock took up that cause! We might all be driving Detroit sleds

    Please show more appreciation to the deceased Senator! It is because of him that we are not driving Ladas and Trabants.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Let's get away from the communism and McCarthy line here ... we really don't need to go there.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Goodbye and good luck!
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    ....and better tomorrows!
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