Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Luxury Performance Sedans



  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    With BMW's 5 series getting the worst reliability rating from CR, sounds like the benchmark from hell.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Skidpad means nothing, it's like saying the weight of the steak has any bearing on the quality.


    But it's interesting to see the same old reaction when a supposed BMW beater comes around.


    hpowders - who look at reliability when buying a car? I don't. Even though the Toyota I bought has some issues in CR I still got car. Not worried. People who buy BMWs as well know their cars aren't falling apart and are not going to leave them stranded. Black circles is not a reason not to get a car, otherwise the manufacturers would not sell one of them that CR purports to be unreliable.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Well then you are one of those rare individuals who don't factor in reliability concerns in determining their next car lease or purchase. I, however, believe it is one of many things a prudent potential buyer should be considering. And I am far from being alone-Lexus sales are going through the roof-not because of styling innovations.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    What's more interesting is the same old reaction from BMW fanatics when another car gets good reviews.


    You still harping on the skidpad numbers? Geez


    Face it, the 5 has not been received with universal praise. Many people and reviewers are underimpressed with the styling inside and out (I personally LIKE the exterior styling), poor ergonomics of the i-drive, and reliability history. It has received consistant praise for its handling, but handling alone does not make a car great.


    "who look at reliability when buying a car? I don't."


    Actually, I don't know a single person other than you who doesn't look into the reliability history when buying a car.




    On the other hand, I wouldn't say that the M has set the benchmark in this class. It remains to be seen.
  • Infiniti has been harrying BMW with their G, and RT and CD sure loved the M45, especially with RT blazing to 60 in 5.3s, that too with an automatic tranny. RT felt that this harrying would continue with the new M. Let's see how things work out for these cars.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,207
    to me (I actually buy cars, as opposed to leasing) and very few others, reliability is irrelevant to most drivers in this segment.


    For a variety of reasons, most lease. Some would say it's to drive a car that isn't otherwise affordable. Others point to business-related writeoffs. In any event, many cars needn't last past the warranty to satisfy -- the initial driver dumps it before (or as) the warranty runs out.


    There are precious few people in these boards discussing the pleasure of driving 150K miles in the same dependable vehicle. Holding up my lantern, I continue to search. . .


    Then, to add to the joy, I will only own a car (for personal use, my wife thinks otherwise) with a manual transmission and rear-wheel drive. This is a near non-existant demographic -- sports/luxury with reliability, RWD and a manual transmission. Infiniti is about it. BMW works if you drop the dependability/reliability bit. . .which I'm reluctant to do.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The M finally proves that Japan can build a German car, if they choose to do so. I'm not really surprised it was Nissan to finally pull it off, they've always been the "spunkiest" of the big Japan three. Infiniti is just on a fire streak. It will be interesting to see what becomes of the Q. Infiniti has steadily killed all of its failed Lexus competitors...except for that one.
  • sapparosapparo Posts: 68
    BMW 5 series was, and is the benchmark, as much as it hurts those who try to justify their budgetary constraints, by comparing lesser pretenders with the class-leader"


    No arguing there. It looks like no other. Rear end looks like its dragging a diaper with a full load. Current benchmark and winner of ugliest car of the class with cheap, low rent interior and "like no other" Atari video game controller for entertainment. Other notable entries were the Z4 and big poppa 745. Well it did make the least reliable list along with the 7 so their doing something right.


    Of course the pretender new RL is a much more advanced car with it's SH-AWD system which apparently BMW is going to add on the 5 series wow. Infiniti's going for the throat with these hot new M models. I wonder if BMW management was thinking the G35 was a pretender that's why they rushed to market the ZHP option package. Good thing I have my "ugly blockers" shades handy when I see one in a blue moon.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    Don't forget that Lexus tried with the GS many years ago. RWD with I6 and V8 power. Too bad no manual transmission was offered.


    I still think the original GS, which was styled by an Italian design outfit, is a beautiful sedan. I much prefer it, and even the current GS, to the bland looks of the new M.


    The GS has been a reliable, safe car. Buyers just never caught on as Lexus hardly promoted it, pushing the LS and ES and SUVs.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Hhahaha! Very well said indeed. I assume any AWD 5 series will be the same system they use in their X SUVs, nice, but no SH-AWD.


    Riez, the GS has always been Lexus' "troubled child". The design of the original was pretty nice for '93, but it was hardly the styling slam dunk of the '92 SC. Its unfortunate that the French team that did the new SC wasnt able to even come close to the stellar job that those Calty guys did with the original. The first GS's power and suspension just didnt measure up. The '98 GS400 fixed that, but added a bunch of other problems. Lexus interiors for '98 were uncharacteristically bad, and the '98 GS and RX suffered because they were introduced for '98. Lexus acted pretty quickly to fix its precious baby RX, but the GS never got the interior updates it needed. You can still see the remnants of the sucky '98 interior though when you compare even an '03 RX to the '04.


    Part of the problem I think is that Lexus and Infiniti are almost polar opposites. Infiniti does sport, and Lexus does luxury. When they try and compete with each other, for example Q45, and IS, it generally doesnt work well. The IS and GS might be able to change that.. but I seriously doubt that they will outhandle G and M. As to whats going to happen to Q45, no idea. Infiniti will probably kill it off.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    The 06 GS interior is one of the best. Just close your eyes before you climb in and you're set.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    It is very good. Autospies has some new pictures with the actual electronics turned on in a GS300, it looks great. The center stack is so clean compared to the typical thoughtless clutter of '98.
  • bmwdougbmwdoug Posts: 248
    The M45 looks like an Altima on steroids. It may be very well be a great car, but the reality is that BMW owns the prestige factor with the public. And, the other reality is that many people buy cars in this price range to make an image statement. Nothing wrong with doing that. In fact, the auto companies market their cars in this price segment to image. I don't believe an infiniti or Acura will ever replace a BMW or Benz in terms of status. And, again, status is a major factor in this segment. If status is not a factor, then the Marketing companies have been wasting money.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Never say never. Lexus is 15 years old. Mercedes is over 100 years old. I would say Lexus has done a remarkable job of aquiring the amount of prestige for their badge in such a short amount of time. Prestige or not, if BMWs are ugly and the electronics are unusuable, people wont buy.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    3 is a 1 series on steroids, 5 is a 3 on steroids, 7 is a 5 on steroids...


    Agree with you about status and prestige. The pricier the car, the more impt image becomes. Right now, BMW has a HUGE leg up on Infiniti in that department. It's not even close. Main reason why comparable Bimmers are about 20% more expensive.


    I wouldn't say Infiniti will never catch up though.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    It also hasnt taken long for Infiniti resale on "Ghosn Infinitis" to skyrocket. Just compare residuals for an I35 vs a G35.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    That's true. The resale of the G, FX, and the QX are quite strong.


    More and more people are noticing Infiniti. Still, Infiniti doesn't even come close to touching the prestige and image of BMW.
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    The great unwashed listen to and read the BMW/Benz prestige ads and marketing literature and lust for the product.


    The long time owners and fans have to support that image and prestige by buying an supporting the marque.


    The growing awareness and articles in places like the Wall Street Journal about product reliability, and observations in trend setting magazines about poor styling are moving the owner fan base to cooler cars that actually deliver on their promise without being butt-ugly, hard to use and hard to live with.


    At the high end of the food chain, what you have the least of is time.
  • 'The M45 looks like an Altima on steroids'


    Not really, though I must agree with you that looks are subjective. To me, the new BMW style trend looks like Pontiac's (front end), and a slightly open trunk a from the rear (7 Series), so as I said, looks are subjective.


    Most publications have loved the M45, and its getting reviews just like the G35 did, when it came out.


    How much it can compete with the 5 series, well, car to car, it does look like a winner, but obviously, the M45 has to fight the BMW name, and that would probably take time. The G35 is largely looked at as a serious 3 series competitor, and I have a feeling the M will be that to the 5 series, in a year or so.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    MSRP released for 2006 M:


    M35: $39,900

    M35 AWD: $42,400

    M35 Sport: $42,700

    M45: $46,750

    M45 Sport: $49,550


    Destination (not included): $610

Sign In or Register to comment.