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Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    That doesn't make much sense considering diesel costs more than premium these days.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Based on my understanding the refinery capacity that has been struck by hurricanes had a bigger impact on diesel prices than gasoline prices.

    I guess the diesel price premium will go down or become a discount to gasolin in the future when refinery capacity recovers?
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,206
    Diesel fuel demand is less a function of cost than is gasoline. When the prices go up markedly, the trucks & locomotives continue using as much as ever, while automobile consumption often drops, at least for awhile.

    Even at a 5% premium, diesel cars deliver sufficiently better fuel mileage to more than make up the difference. I just got back from England, where I drove a rented diesel Citroen minivan (oh boy) over 1200 miles in ten days & averaged a little under 39.5 mpg, going 75-80 on the motorways for well over half of that (at $6.72/U.S. gal, BTW).
  • >>>> MEMO: How LPS Cars Could Save the World from Running out of Fuel

    LPS cars IN THE US have typically NOT been diesels (and yes there are some noteworthy exceptions, but I am meaning to keep my remarks "general" or typical -- that is, the spirit of what I will be posting is accurate.)

    I was lucky enough to attend Audi's winter wonderland driving school in Seefeld, Austria over the course of four different years (always in January). My most recent visit was in 2002 when I was treated to a "top o' the line" Audi A4 quattro sport 2.5T to drive for three days along with 39 other English speaking folks.

    Background#1:

    On hand were versions of the A4 with gasoline engines and the one noted with a diesel. Only the Audi S4 was more powerful than the 2.5T diesel powered car. Of course the reason was the torque that diesels produce -- and turbo diesels coupled with 6 speed manuals seem especially quick. Much quicker than even the top o' the line A4 V6 (even though the V6 did have a few more ponies than the diesel, the torque and when it was available was far more potent than any A4 gasoline fuel-based car save the S4.)

    Background#2:

    A Saturday TV show on Spike TV (part of the Spike TV "PowerBloc") sometimes features technology, accessories and other things that are automotive related -- one recent Saturday, the host of the show got on the Internet and ordered a "bio diesel" manufacturing kit, set it up, went to Burger King and got some number of gallons of spent vegetable cooking oil, dumped the cooking oil into the contraption and some time later, ta da, 20 gallons of pure bio-diesel (at a cost of ~ $.70 per gallon for the home brew.)

    The host then dumped this 20 gallons of bio-d into a Dodge with a big-honking-diesel engine and took it to the track and onto the street for a "real world" test.

    Long story short: the bio-diesel was "imperceptibly" different than petro-diesel. Performance and mileage were "the same" with BugerKing Diesel and with the stuff on sale at the local filling station.

    The point?

    The basic ingredients of bio-diesel can be grown (corn, soybeans, etc.) and re-grown and re-grown and they are, therefore, "renewable." There is, in theory at least, an unlimited supply of bio-diesel for the making. And, the vehicles equipped with an engine such as the Audi 2.5T diesel are performers in every positive sense of the word and, by extrapolation, would be great in LPS cars.

    Hybrids, at this point, are a good concept but the economics -- yet -- don't make sense. Moreover, the ecological impact makes little sense -- at this juncture.

    Now, for those who would poo-poo the idea (when is the last time you saw "poo-poo" in print?) of diesel, fine. No problem.

    According to the Rand Corporation's August 2005 study on "known petroleum resources in the United states," we have "proven" oil reserves in Colorado and Wyoming that at 2005 consumption levels that could satisfy (sustain) all (100%) of our current consumption for 100 years without ANY imports period.

    Or, put another way, the oil that is NOW known in this geography is triple the proven reserves of our suppliers in the middle east. Triple, three times as much -- in fact the Rand Study proclaims that fully 25% of our petroleum consumption for 400 years can be satisfied by the "known" oil in these states mentioned above.

    Moreover, the economic impact would be hundreds of thousands of "new" jobs that would be created to extract this primordial goop and these states, noted above, are IN FAVOR of building the requisite plants to extract and distill this "known and proven" raw goop into useable, consumable, burn-able fuel.

    Note: it will take about 20 - 30 years to ramp up to that level of "extraction and refinement." But, in the mean time we have other sources of "fuel" including the bio-diesel mentioned above.

    LPS cars would be THE BEST place to put these "high zoot" diesel powerplants -- followed by the inevitable trickle down into the "lesser" vehicles in the line of these manufacturers. (Want proof? Lexus is putting the hybrids, the high buck hybrids out in their top o' the line cars first -- more's the pity if you ask me, what a waste of engineering talent -- why not "high zoot" diesel LS400's? Of course the answer is well argued but is at this point illogical.)

    Just thought I might stir up some dialog here, folks.

    Drive it like you live.

    Turbo diesels for me -- would I, if I but could. :confuse:

    Always remember: Progeny (or is that ontogeny?) recapitulates phylogeny. :shades:
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    Always remember: Progeny (or is that ontogeny?) recapitulates phylogeny.

    I belive that would be ontogeny that more closely aligns with phylogeny but they all relate to the result of a creative effort. except that maybe ontogeny and phylogeny are more closely associated with embryonic development. :shades:
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I didn't see than anywhere about the ME-412 not being approved because of the SLR. Everything I saw stated that managment thought a 400K Chrysler wouldn't sell in enough numbers to make the business case stick. Mercedes already upstaged the SLR with the CLK-DTM AMG. Its a completely better car than the SLR too and Benz still sells it.

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    "The ME 4-12 is not a concept car but a prototype. According to Deutsche Press, around 300 Chrysler ME 4-12 were to be built each year, largely with carbon, aluminum, and other light-weight metals. Road testing was scheduled for late January 2004, with production rumored to start within two years. The car itself was being built in the United States by Metalcrafters, and we have been told that the lead engineer is from Chrysler and the lead suppliers from North America - and that this was the outcome of battles with Stuttgart, which wanted to use European suppliers and engineers. Most off the shelf parts appear to be from Chrysler aside from the engine. The transmission seems to be based on Chrysler, Mercedes, and other designs."

    "The rather pricey SLR project can't be beaten so easily by a mere American car, particularly a Chrysler; so prepare to wait a while for ME-412s while Mercedes looks over its blueprints and gets the SLR to go faster. Dieter reportedly got beaten up pretty badly over this, and it may even have been one of the reasons why Wolfgang Bernhard was "de-selected" from the Mercedes-head job. Nothing screams "healthy corporation" like turf wars, right?"

    "Eckhard Cordes is leaving, along with Juergen Schrempp; Dieter Zetsche is replacing them. Newspapers report that the ME-412 is one of a number of projects “under active consideration.” In short, it may well be produced after all...along with the Viper-based, Hemi-powered FirePower."
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,206
    It's good to be on the same side of an issue once in awhile.

    I've lived in Grand Junction, CO, and Edmonton, AB, so have a basic understanding of oil shale and oil sands. Both, as you pointed out, are available in huge quantities. . .at a price. Besides which, there are a lot of capped natural gas wells around Farmington (NM).

    The Arabs aren't in nearly the driver's seat that many think they are. Even they know it -- they're not happy when the prices get too high, and prices are at levels now to renew the interest in Rifle, Vernal & Rangely (oil shale), as well as Ft. McMurray (oil sands). The smart money has already run up many of the relevant stocks, but there's still room to grow.

    The system is about to work, and it'll stun the doomsday set. The biodiesel thing could also be a good thing, but I've not yet heard what the break-even is for the truly made-from-scratch stuff -- too many people are waxing poetic about the essentially garbage price for which they can acquire used cooking oil. Time will tell.

    All that said, diesels in luxury vehicles are a very good thing. Torque rules, & even though I listen to right-wing radio, I appreciate 40 mpg.
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    "All that said, diesels in luxury vehicles are a very good thing. Torque rules, & … appreciate 40 mpg."

    You may add as well that Diesel engines endure much more mileage. This adds up to the resale value of a Diesel car— LPS indeed included—at least here in Europe.

    José
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yikes! Never saw that before. Where is that quote from?

    M
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    Has anyone used these tires on any LPS sedan? They are the highest rated Ultra High Performance All-Season tires on tirerack.com

    I am hoping someone on this board has real life experience with them. :shades:
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detailv4.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=754189&FOLDER%3C%3Efo- - lder_id=113261&bmUID=1130518303370

    Most Reliable Sedans: Lexus GS300/GS430, Infiniti M35/M45, Lexus IS300 (2005), Honda Accord Hybrid, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord 4-cyl., Lexus LS430.

    Average Reliability: Acura RL, Toyota Avalon

    Least Reliable Sedans: Jaguar S-Type, Lincoln LS, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Saab 9-3, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, BMW 5 Series (V8), Audi A8, Chrysler 300 (V8), BMW 7 Series.
  • All,

    I have a Passport 8500 radar detector that I've have for a couple of years and three cars (03 Infiniti G35 Sport Coupe, 04 TL, 05 TL and now the 05 RL). It's been rock solid until the RL.

    Now, not that I'm condoning or advocating driving beyond the spped limit, but if any of you notice this problem, let me me know your thoughts; I want to be informed before asking the dealer about it.

    Here's the situation. You must be travelling steady at 80 mph or above and the car must be in 5th gear. Switch to manual mode and using either the shifter or paddle shifters, manually downshift to third gear - the Passport 8500 goes off with the same tone & volume as if you were directly hit with a radar gun.

    This issue is repeatable over and over again. I live in Philly tested this scenario for three days now on different roads. Repeatable every single time.

    Keep in mind, if you're in 4th gear and manually downshift to 3rd, it won't happen.

    Anyone else seeing this? Any comments or suggestions? Is there any EMI emmitting from the tranny (can't believe that)??

    All comments are appreciated. I'd like to be fully armed with information prior to asking the dealer about it because I'm expecting some BS answer.

    Thanks!
  • docnukemdocnukem Posts: 485
    That is the car sending an RF signal to Acura to void your warranty :) . What do your RPMS surge to when shifting from fifth to third doing 80 (and higher)?

    In the M, at 80, the engine is already at 3100 or so in fifth.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    If we can't use ALG's forward-looking residual prediction numbers, that should we use Consumer Reports' forward looking reliability ratings? (Double standard?)
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    If we can't use ALG's forward-looking residual prediction numbers, that should we use Consumer Reports' forward looking reliability ratings? (Double standard?)

    :confuse: who is ALG and why can't you use them :confuse: :sick:

    I thought information/data was just that :shades:

    BTW: CR's ratings are based on member feedback. So they are forward looking only in the sense that the ratings are technically based on historic records. Therefore EVERY rating would be forward looking for new car purchases.
  • Sedans featuring the most number of colors: Lexus, Mercedes, BMW

    Sedans featuring average number of colors: Audi, Saab, VW, Chrysler, Jaguar

    Sedans featuring the least number of colors: Honda, Toyota and Trabant.

    Yes, I know it is sarcastic -- but what cars are the most "satisfying" to drive, which ones perform just as good at 120 as at 60, which ones have the coolest features (as picked by the cool police?)

    In a world where the cars in every way, save reliability, we identical, reliability becomes of utmost importance.

    There are people, to this very day, who will rank the important attributes of automotive "bliss" and inevitably place reliability in the fourth quartile of importance. Those who buy based heavily on reliability are entitled to do so, but I find these rankings about as relevant as the number of color choices in the brochure in terms of my "driving pleasure."

    Of course, even my poorly rated Audis over the years have never been so unreliable as to deter me from repeat ownership. And, even my recent near brush with buying a new Infiniti was not because of reliability it was because of price for comparable performance as perceived by me, the guy writing the check.

    :shades:
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    My point was that a couple days ago I brought up the point that BMW has won ALG's (Automotive Lasing Guide... they advise and set leasing residuals) award for a few straight years for highest residual values for a brand. I also brought up KBB and their "Resale Value Award" given to BMW.....

    I was battered back by all the Lexus-Lovers here that dismissed anything from ALG or KBB because it was only "forward looking" and a "guess".... They wanted to look at previous examples.

    So now the same people who wouldn't consider ALG or KBB a legitimate reference are now claiming CR as a legitimate source for future reliability of current year models..... Isn't that kind of strange and quite a double standard? Hmmmm......
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    ... but what cars are the most "satisfying" to drive, which ones perform just as good at 120 as at 60, which ones have the coolest features ... There are people, to this very day, who will rank the important attributes of automotive "bliss" and inevitably place reliability in the fourth quartile of importance. Those who buy based heavily on reliability are entitled to do so, but I find these rankings about as relevant as the number of color choices in the brochure in terms of my "driving pleasure."

    Well unless there in one and only one car that will "satisfy," then why not use reliablity as an important factor in the decision process? In my case performance at 120 mph is irrelevant (and I wish all who drove that speed on a public road here in the US would be arrested and deprived of a driver's license for life!).

    Obviously driving pleasure (at normal daily driving speeds only) and cool features rank at the top of the selection criterion. But just as certainly (assuming there is more than one car left on your list) reliability, and even color, become important selection criteria as well.

    Perhaps an important selection crieteria for some cars needs to be what type loaner the dealer provides, because with some cars one will find themselves in a loaner a significant percentage of the time :shades:
  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    So now the same people who wouldn't consider ALG or KBB a legitimate reference are now claiming CR as a legitimate source for future reliability of current year models..... Isn't that kind of strange and quite a double standard? Hmmmm......

    Well I was the one who posted the CR Reliability link and I am on record as allowing all real info/data to be used. I am a big fan of KBB and couldn't imagine not consulting them on any used car transaction :surprise:

    Any one who limits the available data set is asking for trouble. Data is data; its up to the individual what to make of it or how to use it. :shades:
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