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Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • sidvsidv Posts: 63
    Saabs are mediocre at best? Please, at least they don't put you to sleep while looking at them like a Lexus. (which are mostly just gilded Camrys anyway) Sure the Saabs have a long way to go to catch Lexus in reliability but there's absolutely nothing else more appealing about a Lexus than a Saab to me. I'd take a Buick over a Lexus, pretty much as reliable, styling is no more boring and cheaper to maintain in the long run.
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    I had an '00 2.7T quattro on a five-year lease. The worst thing to happen to mine was that the headlight washer caps flew off on the highway. No biggie.

    I now own an '05 S4 Cabriolet, and have for over a year and a half. I have not yet had a single issue.

    I think it's more of how you maintain your cars than the quoted "reliability" they promise to offer. Apparently, the S4 has a "Poor" rating from Consumer Reports. Reliability my @ss.

    In fact, the reliability of the four Audi models we've owned in the last five years have proved themselves against the two Lexus RX's we've had. And they've certainly taken wear and tear better.

    '06 Audi A3 2.0T • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    I had a Saab 900 Turbo coupe and loved it, but that's just not true. Lexus products, every one of them, are superior to their Saab non-competitors.

    I say non-competitors because there's not one serious Saab model out right now. The 9-3 is the most competent, and it's average at best.

    '06 Audi A3 2.0T • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
  • See, now there is one happy and satisfied long term Audi customer! How you maintain the vehicle is of course a critical element in the reliability factor of the car. I always hear about all the broken stuff and never get to see or hear about the "maintenance log" of the same car.

    I did maintain my Audi to factory specs, in cluding synthetic oil and all the rest, but as it approached 100,000 miles couldn't hardly keep up anymore.Like within any brand, some are good and some aren't. Maybe it has to do with the day your particular vehicle was put together on the assembly line?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Saabs are mediocre at best? Please, at least they don't put you to sleep while looking at them like a Lexus.

    Actually, every Saab puts me to sleep while looking at it. I liked the 9-2X the first time I saw it, when it was called the WRX. The 9-3 is 100% generic "Euro car". There's absolutely nothing about it that says "Saab." It could easily have an Opel or Vauxhaul badge on it. Come to think of it, it basically is an Opel with a Saab badge.

    The 9-5 is actually worse, an extremely tired design that was recently given a "mean face". Nice try. Finally, the 9-7X looks like the 6 or so other identical GM SUVs that have been with us since the late '90s.

    The ES and RX are very loosely Camry based. Thats all. The IS, GS, LS, and SC all ride on unique Lexus architecture. How many Saab specific platforms are there? A big fat zero.
  • Nothing I wrote, in response to a repeated lament about a bad personal Audi experience, was intended to imply that I'd recommend anyone allow reliability reports or auto-mag raves to override their own personal experience with a brand.

    I was responding only to the parts of those Audi-lament comments that generalized to "if you're intending to keep a car up to or beyond 100K (maybe even if you're only wanting to keep it past 50K or beyond an original lease and original warranty) you must buy a Japanese car and avoid German cars, especially Audi. I read that generalization being added to "just" and "only" personal experience and personal decision. If I read that generalization into the thread of Audi-lament postings, then I guess I was talking to myself. If I am now recalling correctly the Japanese-German or even just Mazda-Audi generalizations, then my concerns about that type of rhetoric stand.

    I say that, despite the fact, that in my local extended family we have, in the last 8 months, purchased two Mazda 3 cars for younger family members (good price, styling that appealed to the adults and the kids, fun to drive without having the kind of horsepower that sometimes seduces teenage drivers into racing with Porsches on the highway). Including my car, among this collection of siblings, cousins, and high school/college kids, we own two Audi, a new MB SUV, three Mazdas (the two 3s and one 6 -- Mazda is far and away our favorite Japanese brand -- the brand, in our opinion, that really offers what Infiniti purports to offer: a facsimile of European styling and handling combined with the best of what Japanese designers and engineers add to give buyers a lot of bang for much less buck), and a 2006 Buick Lucerne.

    We have no reason, based on personal experiences with these brands (and certainly unsupported by anything reported by CR and JDP) to expect the Mazdas to be more reliable than the German cars. We tend to keep cars for a long time and our Mazdas have been no more or less reliable, on average, than our German cars, when driven over 100K. We just love what Mazda does, both in design and engineering.
  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    I was aware that the Japanese use turbos in non-LPS cars, but mostly in compact sports/GT applications, or to boost smaller displacement powerplants (1.8 to 3.0 litres) in an efficient and cost-effective way.

    I was suggesting that (to date) Japanese LPS cars have steered clear of forced induction, like the Germans are starting to push. And more notably, we're seeing turbocharging applied to larger V8/V10 powerplants.

    After a certain point, it seems excessive and a questionable use of technology.
  • . . .there are certainly times when I have felt my 255HP A6 3.2 needs more power. I just can't remember them.

    I think the power is adequate. It goes faster than the vast majority of cars on the road and it gets to speed more quickly than most too.

    I had three Audi V8 equipped cars and six Audi turbo cars, one of them a V6, two 5 cylinder versions and three 1.8T's, two of those 225HP tunings.

    Nothing sounds sweeter than an Audi V8 (4.2) -- to my ears at least. My current V6 does a nothing to be ashamed of imitation of that sound. The V6 had a nice whine to it and my one S6 a 1995 vintage sounded pretty good too. The 1.8T's didn't sound bad, but they didn't have too much sound in the basso-profundo department, if you get my drift.

    My point is, I wish my current car had more power. Frankly, my V6 is so good and so strong and sips so little gas, I can't entirely see the extra $5 grand or so the V8 A6 commands as worth it. It seems to buy about 1 second in the sprint to 100kph, which is decent -- but I live in a Big Town (or small city if you like) and it is becoming rarer and rarer that I can even use the acceleration that I have.

    "Punching" it on secondary roads still remains an option, but what with sub-urban creep, I have to drive a "fur piece" to actually "play" with my car, the way I used to play with my, then new, 1995 S6 (which I routinely took under full throttle from a full stop to some extra legal speed.)

    Time, traffic congestion and perhaps even a mild bit of prudence dictate my driving style.

    I do, whenever conditions permit (and sometimes when they don't) drive "fast" (any number higher than 80mph that can be sustained, however, can usually only be sustained for a few moments or perhaps several short minutes.)

    Low end grunt (and at least the 3.2 seems medium torquey) is more important to me, all things considered. Perhaps that is why I am so gung ho on having a diesel option.

    A 250HP diesel engine with about 375 pound feet of torque routed through a 7spd DSG transmission would be, under these circumstances, the best of all worlds. That kind of power is easily extracted from a 6 cylinder diesel, too.

    Insofar as the RS6, which took the 4.2 and applied "lungs", it's power was awesome (I averted my eyes, even), but almost completely useless. No one, well virtually no one, can "run away from me" in my underpowered A6 V6 as it stands.

    My god, blowing the current V6 with an ultra fast, ultra quick to spool and light pressure turbo would jump its output to what "an easy 300HP" and give it more torque at lower rpm than the unblown 4.2 V8 (which is probably why Audi hasn't turbocharged the 3.2 since it would show the 4.2 its tail lights.

    The previous generation A6 2.7T V6 was nearly a full second quicker than the 4.2 V8 also offered in the same A6 body.

    Now we are what? Turboing the V10? Gawd? Where could I use that? I'm sure I'd like to try to find someplace, but not for the extra $25K or more that it will surely command over even the "normal" A6 V8 (at 350 HP.)

    I am not arguing against horsepower wars -- I actually to this day cannot figure out why Audi brought out a new car that had 25HP less than the comparably priced outgoing model and bagsfull LESS torque, to boot. Yet, at some point, I just think there are pragmatic reasons (for me) to say "enough is enough."

    I'd rather have more "features" for my "X" thousands of dollars, at this point (or at least once I reached the "just a wee bit more" power point.)

    I'd like to have my navigation programmable by voice. I'd like to specify the Sirius station by calling out its channel number, heck, I'd like to have a backup camera and heated AND cooled seats.

    An $8,000 speaker upgrade, oddly, seems like a better use of my money.

    But hey, that's just me.

    These cars, well most of them, are AT WORST, adequately powered and are typically able to perform well in all age and ability groups.

    550 hp? There is a price point at which I WOULD buy it -- but I'm just not sure I could use it as it could be used and hence would probably "under appreciate it."

    I love what BMW has done with their 3.0 engine via turbo charging. I never thought I'd see the day, in fact. I drove the 335i coupe AND that seemed ample, rational (well almost) and was a huge rush, especially at full throttle in second gear. It was also $40 something thousand dollars.

    And, just like the upcoming 500+HP German cars, it came, conveniently, with the speeding tickets already in the glove compartment, which saves a lot of time.

    I want to spend my money on more "content" not just on extra horses (even though it is an extra THREE HUNDRED horses.)

    I want these cars to be better balanced, yea, that's what I want.

    Why not put a 5 series out with the 3.0 turbo motor in it and just answer the phone "your order please?"

    Naa, we'll have some 500+ HP waka waka zoom zoom German mobile with 1999 electronics and features instead.

    :confuse:
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Wow. Profound.

    I had a 2.7T myself. It was a ton of fun to blast down the interstate in.

    When it was off the lease (and brought in a paltry $16K at an auction), I drove the then-new A6 4.2, I was instantly disappointed.

    Then I drove the S4 sedan. And then I drove the S4 sedan again. I thought about stealing it. For fun, we drove an S4 Cabriolet, because I was feeling frisky. It sold me on the spot, and my confidence in Audi was regained.

    '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
  • I'm curious why you leased an Audi 2.7T on a 5-year lease. Sounds like the car worked out extremely well, but didn't you drive a leased vehicle for 2 years w/o any warranty? Seems to defeat part of the reason to lease in the first place.My Audi had a 3yr. 50,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty, and extensions could be purchased, but that was on a buy, not lease program.
  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    More power and speed also equate to more carnage, especially when combined with the false perception that more safety equipment allows us to drive more carelessly.

    An Indiana state trooper who has witnessed hundreds of accidents opined, "I think people are just more in a hurry now than they've ever been," he said. "Their life is moving so fast they don't have time to think."

    But that's not the only reason for reckless driving, according to Purdue University, which conducted a study that found air bags and anti-lock brakes cause drivers to be more reckless, too.

    Researchers also studied motor vehicle data from the state of Washington during a five-year period beginning in 1992 and found that enhanced safety features actually make drivers less vigilant on the road. The findings were published in the Journal of Risk and Uncertainty earlier this year.

    But insurance loss experience for LPS cars is overall very good. So perhaps drivers of LPS cars are more experienced, skilled, risk averse, and diligent.

    Many of us are also older, and less apt to be driving around at 2am...

    So what's the solution? Maybe the trick is to design safety features that do not allow drivers to realize the edge of performance. But how you would do that, I don't know. Especially when new LPS cars are pushing 300-400 horsepower. And the driver is busy on a cell phone while blasting down the interstate. Lexus' often criticized mitigation systems may be one step toward addressing those variables.
  • james27james27 Posts: 433
    I maintained my 98 A6 per the specs, but had some severe problems that made me think twice about replacing it. Before 50K, I had replaced the radiator, the water pump, the timing chain, a couple of A-arms (not because of hitting something...joints got loose), leaking seals, and a few other things.

    I've mentioned it before, but the new one didn't pass my sit test. You can't get much of any nice to have options unless you buy the sunroof, and I just plain don't fit. I special ordered the 98 without a sunroof, which added 2.85" of headroom over the ones with it...nearly 3"! I refuse to drive laying down!
  • For some reason, among the various threads that run through the forum, there is an "unreliable Audi" thread. Haven't seen a similar detailed litany of repairs about other cars recently (Mark ... maybe your pro-Audi voice creates a compulsion to report only bad Audi experiences).

    So, simply to keep some balance, ... I drove the M35, which came and went in three months) 3600 miles, during which time I needed repair of the rear suspension, driver seatbelt, and headlights.

    On the Infiniti M new owners board, an owner, at the 34K mileage point, lamented: "I have owned my M45 sport for 14 months now. My previous vehicle was a FX35. I do drive about 2500 miles a month, so the car has about 34,000 miles on it. I am disappointed in how it is holding up. There seem to be some "glitches" that happen once in a while. The auto drivers seat and steering wheel work about 50% of the time. When it does not work, I have to push the memory seat position to start driving. There is a rattle in the back end of the car when I stop sometimes, and the a/c smells musty when the car starts up after sitting for more than an hour. I know these seem minor, but after spending over 50k for a car I want it to work right. I have taken it to the dealer for all of the issues only to be told that they cannot repeat them. I purchased an Infiniti so I would not have to worry about repairs. The car's initial appeal has really worn off. I am actually looking forward to my lease ending in 10 months. Its to bad, this car has potential, it just needs a little more excitement to be a show stopper."

    And, from the Infiniti M35/M45 owners' problems forum: "I've put about 12,000 miles on my 2006 M35X. Before leasing, last summer, I read all the reviews and all of the posts on various sites - including Edmunds. The reviews were fantastic and so were the posts. Many former BMW and Mercedes owners raved about the M. I'm guessing there are other potential buyers that are doing the same right now. In my opinion, the best things about this car are the sound system (best I've ever heard in a car) and the interior. I really don't like the drive AT ALL. On the highway, the steering is all over the place. The transmission shifts are really pronounced in sound and feel, reminding me of a stick shift being driven by someone that really doesn't know how to drive. When you dive the car hard, it does perform. However, when you drive the car normally, it feels like you are pulling a boat.If I could get out of the lease today - I would (and I still might, regardless of the financial loss). I dislike this car so much I left it at our winter home in Florida all winter. This way, I would only have to drive it one week per month. Our two other cars are an Audi A4 and a BMW X3. Both of cars drive better than the M. All I can think about each time I drive the M is - I really can't stand this car! I kick myself each day for not choosing the Mercedes E350 or BMW 530."
  • I sold my 2000 A6 2.7T w/ 100,000 miles for $11,500 and bought a new Mazda Cx-7 for $28,350.00. Needed more hauling capacity, liked the way the Mazda handled, and changed brands with no expectations that Mazda will be more reliable than Audi.

    Buying a vehicle really is a crap shoot no matter what the forums or anybody says or writes. Liked the look and driveability of the Mazda, plus the slick tiptronic setup, and really have to hope for the best!

    If I have to have the radiator, water pump, timing chain, front end parts,oil seals, and "a few other things" replaced before 50 K, even if these things are covered under warranty, my search for the "holy grail" of reliable and trouble free transportation will start all over again.
  • Has anyone beside me been perplexed by the frequency of people generalizing from their car's particular service history to that brand's ultimate reliability? Contributors here seem bright, thoughtful, even insightful except in this one area.

    Here's the situation: your car's particular service history is a matter of luck: sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, but it is a matter of chance. As such, it's really not worth long diatribes. What you learn from problems is how good a particular dealer is in dealing with them, and how good a brand is in standing behind their products. But you don't learn a general reliability lesson for that brand or your model.

    I've had a terrible time with my 2002 BMW X5. I wouldn't buy another one just because it has left a bad aftertaste. But I look at CR's just-released buying guide, and discover that the 2002 BMW has been of average reliability, with particular problems in electrical systems, AC, and power equipment. Well, my problems were in none of those areas; they were in the transmission, the suspension, and the body integrity. Does this mean that CR got it wrong? Of course not. It means the world is a phenomenally random place, and the hand I was dealt is not likely to get dealt again. I learned that my BMW dealer is pretty supportive and does its best to fix things and minimize my inconvenience. I might buy another BMW (maybe a 525ix wagon) and hope for a better hand. But I didn't learn much about BMWs or X5s. I go to places that do reliable surveys to learn about that.
  • The question is : Were you satisfied with the dealer service in repairing the transmission, suspension and body integrity to the point where you would purchase BMW again?

    I was not with the Audi dealer authorized service,and found an independent shop to keep the car running.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,508
    I rarely visit here since purchase of my current non-LPS.
    But every time I do ( these cars still hold a level of interest for me ) it seems I see a post by Mark that intrigues me.

    Full disclosure here:
    My current ride is a 2007 Corvette Coupe. HP \ TQ = 400 of each. And weight is close to 3200#. Mark’s A6 3.2 has 255 \ 243 and weighs something over 4000#.

    One reason ( high on my list ) that I did not end up buying something like an Audi A6 4.2 ( I drove one of the first to arrive here in Atlanta ) is:

    More ( as in great steaming piles of ) Torque and More ( as in very, very quick for a Daily Driver ) Acceleration were of paramount importance to me. And my circumstances finally allowed me to have an only vehicle \ Daily Driver wherein I could “give up” 2 seats & 2 doors in favor of a significant step up in both acceleration & handling.

    The Corvette board I primarily monitor is rife with Corvette drivers who have 1 or more additional vehicles – and some are Audis or BMWs. But there are also a surprising ( to me ) number of folks who commute daily in their Corvettes – as I now do.

    Point here is that I am rarely able to use WOT in the first 3 gears for more than a few seconds at a time. ( I generally try to avoid exceeding every current posted speed limit in the US. ) But I can utilize WOT on occasion, and I can & do use WOT in the higher gears, reveling in the elasticity and the Torque that slings me along at entertaining rates of acceleration.

    ( My name is Ray & I am a TQ \ HP Junkie – looking for a 12 step program. )

    While I cannot safely explore the very high cornering limits of the Corvette. The handling is quite enjoyable at 6 or 7 tenths. And I can accelerate at a very enjoyable and engaging rate of speed whenever the mood & traffic \ road conditions allow.

    So. More is better. For me.

    And my recent trip to Florida over the weekend resulted in quite respectable fuel economy.

    Trip: Approx. 725 miles, mostly over 2 travel days.

    Average MPG = 28.25 ( Excel & Trip Computer nearly identical )

    I was not driving trying to achieve the best possible MPG. This trip also included a couple of ( um ) ‘demonstration’ acceleration runs: 15 – 95 or so. NOT exactly the best conditions for fuel economy . . .

    I did not select a Corvette because I expected Honda fuel efficiency – but this I do find quite remarkable.

    Just my 0.02 gallons worth.
    - Ray
    Very Happy with More . . .
  • I have never heard of a Corvette getting THAT kind of fuel economy... once owned a blue 1980 L-82 that only made about 17-19 mpg. Must be quite a few breakthrough upgrades in every area of Corvette construction in the last 26 years!
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    You are always welcome here no matter what you drive. ;)
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,508
    “I have never heard of a Corvette getting THAT kind of fuel economy... once owned a blue 1980 L-82 that only made about 17-19 mpg. Must be quite a few breakthrough upgrades in every area of Corvette construction in the last 26 years!”

    Well – 26 years has brought many breakthroughs in many areas:
    EPA estimates for mine ( six speed automatic ) are 17 \ 27.
    In my review of many, many relevant posting, 28+ MPG for trip mileage is not exceptional for a C6.

    - Ray
    Happy motoring . . .
  • More IS better was "a" theme I was singing. However, there is a point, for me, for MY circumstances, that THAT much more is unable to be fully appreciated. And, since I can't "have it all," I see myself reaching somewhat of a saturation point. Note: I am NOT there -- YET!

    This is not to say I think my 255HP A6 is even a tiny bit more than "adequate." I suggested there are times that I think it is inadequate, but that I just couldn't put my finger on an example that stuck in my head.

    I have had cars that were so "woefully inadequate" that I thought they were dangerous to attempt to drive if one had to merge on a freeway "already in progress."

    Here is something that this discussion (or my own wanderings) reminded me of. You see, I used to be an "audio junkie" or "audio geek" (perhaps I still am, but time and tide have drastically reduced the time I have to spend in my local Audiofile Heaven and at this point, the additional money I would have to spend to improve my system gets me to "breathtakingly expensive.") Where was I, oh yea. . .

    I used to live in an apartment (way back in college.) I had spent every dime I owned on speakers, amplification, turntables (remember records?) and cartridges (sometimes costing more than the turntables they were used in.) My speakers were the epitome of 'high fidelity.'

    They played true and they COULD play both true and loud. It is a sad fact that speakers that can play true sound even better the louder they get (up to the limits of ear pain, of course.)

    So, there I was, with a really cool audio system (well, it was at least really expensive) that I couldn't play at any volume above what at the time seemed like a mere whisper (without really honking off the neighbors.) My pre-amp and amps stayed cool since they were barely cranked, the speaker diaphragms never had a chance to show off their excursive abilities. :cry:

    Fast forward. I live in a house, my "home theater" has five subwoofers and tens of thousands of dollars worth of electronics and source components -- I watch a lot of CSI, whilst I'm reading Car & Driver, Road & Track, Automobile, and -- it's pitiful isn't it. I have the tools, I have the technology, yet I still barely crack it open, barely crank it up (although my wife would disagree.)

    Ditto my situation, I'm certain, were I to have an RS4 or S8 or S6. Lots of refined brute force, so little chance to even "crank it up above a whisper" kind of thing -- AGAIN. :cry:

    So, I search for the holy grail, my Batmobile, so to speak. I want more than the 255HP that Ingolstadt has bestowed upon the A6 3.2, but see little merit in the extra cost (for the performance gain) associated with a 4.2.

    So I say, "weapons grade torque" with similar horsepressure and I'd be fine. But, I'd put a couple of thou into a sound system upgrade (cause in the car, I CAN crank it up.)

    Nevertheless, "I STILL can't drive -- 55!" :surprise:
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,244
    Interesting, for sure.

    I had an old Yaschica D camera (bought second-hand) when I was in college & took many fairly decent photos with it. Later in my life I got a Mamiya C220 (twin-lens reflex, like the Yaschica) with a number of bells & whistles & took a number (but fewer than the YD) of good photos. That camera was stolen, and I ended up with a SLR Mamiya M45, by far the best of the lot. Mostly snapshots from that one, sadly.

    But (here's the elusive point), the better my equipment got, the less time I had to use it & the less passion (or whatever) I brought to the table. Getting older has its drawbacks, and this (for me) is one of them.

    The more money one has to indulge in stuff, as one ages, the less time is available. I drove my second-hand MGB in 44 states (when I was 20) & my 240-Z 40K miles/year several years running (when I was 25-30). Now I can afford better cars, but don't have the opportunities that I had then to actually use them as they were intended.

    Maybe it's just me.

    OTOH, I live in a part of the country that allows me to blast across Nevada & other unpopulated areas pretty much as I see fit, so on those rare (but treasured) occasions when I do engage in a road trip these days, it's a memorable thing.

    That's why I'm telling myself that the next vehicle I get, even though it'll spend 99% of the time and 95% of its accumulated mileage commuting, is worth what it'll cost.

    A handful of days a year, I can live again.

    Priceless.
  • You said: "The question is : Were you satisfied with the dealer service in repairing the transmission, suspension and body integrity to the point where you would purchase BMW again?"

    My answer is slightly off target. I would buy another BMW, and I would buy it from that dealer. I'd buy another BMW because, as I said, my experiences with one BMW are just bad luck. I'd buy from that dealer because they take care of me pretty well. I've been very unhappy with other dealers of other brands--a local Volvo shop comes to mind; I'd buy another Volvo, but just not likely from that dealer.
  • Can you drive Hwy.50.."the most desolute road in America" from Fallon to Ely at 90+ mph w/o the Nevada highway patrol bothering you?
  • sidvsidv Posts: 63
    A Lexus is simply an appliance for people who aren't even into cars and should drive Camrys or Highlanders but whose egos won't let them. Your point about specific platforms is utterly meaningless.

    The 9-5 (a great value) is far sharper than ANY Lexus, all of which are so devoid of character that they could be large bars of soap travelling down the road. I'll take the 9-3 styling over a Lexus any day, for you to call it generic while favoring Lexus is completely laughable. I agree the 9-7 was ill advised but beats a Highlander (tall Camry) at the prices Lexus charges for the RX.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    You never hear "Dont own a Lexus out of warranty!" though.

    True, very true. Truthfully though, neither German or Japanese are inexpensive outside of warranty as they mile up, but the former can be breathtakingly so.

    M
  • sidvsidv Posts: 63
    That's your subjective opinion. I happen to disagree with it. Saabs are not the best cars on the road, GM needs to give them more money for R&D to maintain a unique identity, but they are good deals, plain and simple. Far, far more appealing cars for the money (real world money, not MSRP) than Lexus or Audi. For what my 9-5 cost, I could only be driving an Audi A4 rather than the A6 which is much closer in size to the 9-5, and, to my tastes, the A4 is inferior in pretty much every way other than interior quality. Or I could be driving a Lexus ES. Which is a Camry (the single most boring vehicle of all time) for all intents and purposes, enough said.

    Not that I would be caught dead in an Audi either. Very unreliable in surveys and the few people I've known who have had them have had an amazing number of issues. Also they are generally quite boring cars, the least interesting of all the European brands except for VW. An A3 is a cramped, odd little car that screams "Tweaked Rabbit", why anyone would spend their money on one is beyond my comprehension.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,244
    Yes, but you still have to be reasonably careful. However, it's far from the most desolate road in America, and I prefer several others. There are a couple of N-S roads in Nevada that have both fewer towns & less traffic. They aren't U.S. highways, though, and I think where the name was first coined -- the state & county roads are definitely emptier.

    Two of my personal favourites are state 140 between Lakeview, OR, and Winnemucca, NV. There's a bit of it on US95, but the rest is through the wide-open spaces. The other is NV266 & CA168 between Lida Junction, NV, (turn left at the whorehouse) and Big Pine, CA. Lots of good curves and undulating pavement on this one.

    You still have to pay attention -- shouldn't go ridiculous speeds when there's oncoming traffic, that sort of thing. If someone comes up behind you, slow down & let them pass. The good news is that these are rare occasions.
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    5-Series 5,954 (49,296 YTD)
    E-Class 4,918 (43,079 YTD)
    M 2,015 (23,475 YTD)
    GS 1,860 (25,102 YTD)
    A6 814 (14,963 YTD)
    RL 731 (10,799 YTD)

    Note that BMW had a tremendous lease deal for November - almost a zero MF!
  • Well I've had 2 A6 2.7T's. A 2000 and a 2003 with very minimal repair issues. I had 5 series BMW's for 14 years and a Q45 until the Audi's. The twin turbo's give you 0-60 in 6.6 and good passing power. They also develop max. torque from 1800rpm to 3800rpm. The quattro makes the car feel very firmly planted and I drive it hard. It is fabulous in rain or snow which gives me a very secure feeling. Great trunk room and the rear seats go down also. I think a good looking car with benchmark interior. My lease is almost up and prices are way up and no more twin turbo offered so I am looking at other all wheel drive options particularly the M35X but I would hardly call the Audi boring by any stretch of the imagination.
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