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Luxury Performance Sedans



  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    And when I replace my BMW 3 series I will definitely be open minded about the other Japanese marques ...

    You crack me up . . . when the time really comes for you to replace your 3 series, there will only be one correct prescription for you . . .

    3 letters. :D
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Stranger still is that it appears that the GS will be the last Lexus car to get upgraded to the 3.5L V6. The ES350 hits in Chicago, and Lexus is already running ads for the RX350 (now with 270hp, what's the reason for the RX400 again?)

    That means that the ES350 will not only undercut the GS in price, but it will have 25 more horses, at least for the time being.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    There must be some changes in the wind with regards to the way they will tier these models, because that doesn't make a whole lot of sense on the surface. Maybe there is something in store for the GS?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The GS will get the 3.5L V6 and 4.6L V8, I'm just not sure when. My guess (since there is no official word on the GS350 and 460 yet) is that they will add the GS450h for '07, and replace the standard engines for '08. If I were Lexus, I would also replace the IS250s for IS300s. The 250 isnt any faster than the 4-cyl Acura TSX.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    If I were Lexus, I would also replace the IS250s for IS300s. The 250 isnt any faster than the 4-cyl Acura TSX.

    But then an IS300 would be too close to the 350. If anything, the 250 makes the 350 stand out, just from the difference between the two. And there are still those that won't cross the line and run to Acura. I don't know . . . I still think the 250 makes sense, but perhaps could use some other enhancements.
  • With the apparent forward and upward momentum of several of the cars in the LPS segment (speaking of units sold in January, 2006) what happened at Acura?

    Price? Performance? Subventing (or lack thereof) of leases? Bad rep in the marketplace?

    And what has happened in general to prices?

    When I started down my current path, I had actually decided the Infiniti M was the way to go since it was substantially less money (than Audi which at the time I was trying hard to justify -- even with a willingness to pay a little more, the Audi was waaaay overpriced compared to a similar M and even a similarly priced BMW 530i.)

    Just last week on a test drive of an M35X with a friend and co-worker, the Infiniti M35X equipped with Journey and Technology packages was over $100 more per month on a lease than the one I was quoted (which was identical) a year earlier. Interest rates? Demand so good they got cocky?

    She ended up with a Cadillac CTS -- and yes I know they are not exactly the same class of car, but factoring in price the Inifiniti had increased in cost sharply over the past 10 months.

    Did this kind of thing happen to Acura?

    And in the prior posting of Jan '06 sales, the STS's numbers were missing. Are they now known?

    And, the strength of the 5 series sales -- er, is THAT due to the renewal or continuation of BMW's aggressive subventing?

    Heck, even Audi (US) is giddy with their year over year results.

    What up Acura? :confuse:
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Sounds like he should start the Church Of The New Materialist.

    Wonder which model caused the transfiguration?

    Could be the miraculous new 5 series.

    Chris Bangle has indeed caused the tired looking 5 series to be reborn.

    Sales up a scorching 42.8% since January 2005 in the USA.

    Could be the new Bangle 7 series.

    Up a respectable 23.3%.

    Or the Bangle 3 series-up 21.5%.

    Temptation may be a sin, but the Bangle stable is indeed hard to resist.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Temptation may be a sin, but the Bangle stable is indeed hard to resist.

    I dont know about that. Temptations are immediate and instinctual. While Banglism is more of an acquired taste that takes time to learn.

    Have you noticed how long it took for mainstream opinion to favor Bangle styling. Unfortunately most people are slow learners and as hard as this may be to believe there are still a small minority out there who find Bangle curves ugly. I cant imagine why?
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    hpowders - You won't have to buy only the BMW to get the Bangled look . . . the way it's revealing itself even on the new MB's and Lexus. It's out there . . . maybe not as pronouncedand . . . but it's out there . . . the styling influence is recognizable, and Chris gets the credit, no doubt. Amazing turnaround, IMO.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    As far as I know, Acura RL pricing has gone down, not up. The last time I was at the Acura dealership, there was no less than 12 of them just sitting around on the lot. I just dont think the demand is there. Its an awful lot of money for a TL with AWD.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Its an awful lot of money for a TL with AWD.

    Excellent description. Except an AWD TL would be able to out-handle the larger RL. A reasonably priced AWD TL would be the prescription for double digit growth sales at Acura.

    So what is the solution for the RL? How about a new platform that is not derived from the Accord. How about a RWD RL? How about a V8 RL? And if not a V8 RL then a powerful V6 hybrid RL. Unfortunately Honda is not pondering such alternatives and RL looks like it will share the same neglected fate as the Infiniti Q.
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    In addition to your suggestion of a better engine (either V8 or hybrid 6), how about a "stretch" version to improve the back seat. Then it could at least compete with the M, and better distinguish itself from the TL. I have heard of a lot of people who rejected the RL for a family car based on the cramped rear area (of course, this complaint applies to the GS as well). As Acura's "flagship" sedan, IMO that's giving up too much of the market.
  • Its an awful lot of money for a TL with AWD.

    You may not like the RL, but it most certainly is not a TL with AWD. There is no comparison between the two. Whether the RL is worth that much more money is up for discussion, but it is a far nicer car than the TL.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    True Tagman!
    The highest compliment paid to Bangle is the design of the 2007 LS!
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I was exaggerating a bit for effect, Dewey!
    I realize my poetic license should be suspended.

    You can sentence me to a grilling by Oprah..... ;)
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    What I need to know is what BMW model costs $525,000? :confuse: Can we get some pics?

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    That BMW must have been signed by Chris Bangle himself to justify the $525k price tag.

    Nothing like accuracy in journalism, I always say. ;)

    Regardless of how much the BMW actually cost, it's still a great story.

    You just can't make this stuff up!

    Thanks for sharing it, Dewey. It made my day! :)
  • Over 80% of the A6's sold are V6's, at the same "class point" it is possible to spend ~$60K for a 530 series BMW and THAT doesn't have a V8. Most of the STS's (but I do not know the percentages on this one) are V6's, the Infiniti dealer here says the M35 M35X (especially the X) is the biggest seller.

    And so on.

    While I understand the journalists need for an LPS car that at least offers a V8, the only ones that sell for prices that seem to keep the buyer's attentions are the A6's and the STS.

    I have not seen a GS with a V8 on the highway, but have seen several M45's -- most of the Mercedes E's are 6's, by far.

    At one point, I read a memo that said Audi of America expected 90% of the new A6's to be sold as 3.2's, apparently is has been somewhat higher than that (I don't know.)

    A 290HP or whatever it was devalued to Acura RL doesn't need a V8 to sell over 1,500 units a month is my point.

    It may need to be a bit bigger, I dunno.

    And, if the price HAS dropped or the deals improved, this would seem to be a reason for sales to be on the incline not decline.

    With AWD growing in popularity (take the 5 series alone as an example), what would an RWD RL offer really? The customers seem to be picking up the AWD cars like "hotcakes" (again at least in our neck of the woods.)

    The Acura looking too much like the Accord COULD be a reason. But the RL is one seriously nice car and if, as you say, is dropping in price, ought to be a contender.

    There must be something else afoot here.

    Who knows?

    Obviously, not I.

    Now who's cockeyed idea was it to bring the A6 3.2 to the US market for an MSRP of $1,800 less in front wheel drive?

    My dealer won't even stock it -- says it hurts the image.

    Heck, other than the odd A4 convertible, they don't carry anything other than quattros.

    Curious, what's happening to Acura. Could it be another Phaeton? Gasp! :confuse:
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    It's nicer, yes, but $12K+ nicer? The TL is better looking, just as fast, has just about all of the technology, (integrated into a much more attractive center stack) and is basically the same size.

    I also hope that Acura has the sense to not let this RL sit for another decade with no major changes.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    My gut guess is that when presented with a "FWD or AWD" choice, most folks in the LPS arena will almost certainly opt for AWD. That having been said, when presented with a "RWD or AWD" option, many folks in this arena will choose RWD over AWD, me included.

    My personal prejudice/bias/irrational belief (PBIB) is that FWD is not viable in the LPS market, and as such, offering the likes of a FWD A6 is silly. On the other hand, said PBIB leads me to prefer RWD over AWD, even if all else was equal (i.e. weight, weight distribution, cost and suspension options), meaning that RWD is a viable option to AWD for these types of cars.

    Best Regards,
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