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Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • bazohimbabazohimba Posts: 14
    Well, Mark, I didn't even look at the BMWs after driving the E 320 CDI. My '08 E 320 bluetech should be delivered in the next ten days or so. My deal was 4% off MSRP which is acceptable, altho neither I nor the dealer is stealing anything from each other.

    I am very impressed by the acceleration (at least the sensation... driving it in traffic in Houston) in the little engine that's very quiet. Hope I'm right!!

    I've not decided whether to buy or lease, as my wife just bought an '07 GL 450. I don't even remember how to figure a lease so as to protect myself from sleight of hand at the dealership.

    jk
  • topspin628topspin628 Posts: 373
    FYI on leasing. Just shop for best purchase price and then have them convert to a lease using that negotiated price, the money factor (interest)and residual (these should be standard if each dealer is using MB Credit) and the amount of months that you decide to lease for. These numbers MUST be disclosed to you in the contract so they can't be fudged. And then make sure that you are clear on the "drive off costs" or out of pocket- money paid when you pick up the car. This is usually first payment, security deposit, taxes and title. So two dealers using the same exact numbers MUST come up with the same monthly payment and drive off costs or something is very wrong with one of them.

    Also, make sure that no one is adding anything extra here that isn't required. This is an area where they can "pad" some profit. I once threatened to walk out of an Infiniti dealership where I was picking up a new car because they added a fee of 150 to pick up my plates from DMV. This was additional to DMV fees. Of course the dealer backed down and took it out of the contract when I told him that I wouldn't sign for the car with that fee. The salesman was a bit upset so I suspect that was some extra commission for him.
    My experience when leasing from MB and BMW is that it's very straight forward with no "games".
    Hope this helps.
  • renssilsrenssils Posts: 24
    From your experience, would any of you Infiniti M45 owners go for a 2008 M45x sport? All wheel drive and sport package will be offered for MY 2008.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    From your experience, would any of you Infiniti M45 owners go for a 2008 M45x sport? All wheel drive and sport package will be offered for MY 2008.

    Very interesting, I'm surprised that Infiniti is making major changes to the M so quickly. The M45x will definitely be on my "must test drive" list.
  • klpeelklpeel Posts: 46
    I don't know about the sport package, but the M45x is my target car for around the end of this year. I am curious to see the external appearance changes mentioned in Infiniti's press release, though. Does anyone know if any pictures are yet available of the updated 2008?

    And BTW, I wouldn't consider these "major changes." The one significant change is the availability of AWD for the V8 version. The other changes are technology updates or refreshes of various kinds. The basic car is the same.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    And BTW, I wouldn't consider these "major changes." The one significant change is the availability of AWD for the V8 version. The other changes are technology updates or refreshes of various kinds. The basic car is the same.

    When I said "major changes", I meant that the car is getting its mid-cycle refresh a year early, which in addition to the AWD V8 includes both a revised exterior and interior, the G35's new HDD based NAV system, new colors and the change to white gauges like in the G.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,508
    “the car is getting its mid-cycle refresh a year early,”

    But – no 6-speed automatic. Or any revision to the gearing.
    Meaning ( I’m guessing ) that the relatively poor fuel economy and the relatively high RPM at cruise will remain – likely for 2 more years.

    Odd, indeed. . . ( to me )
    - Ray
  • bruceomegabruceomega Posts: 250
    FWIW,

    I included this in a longer post in a 5 series thread. While I don't think gas mileage should be a make or break factor for cars in this price category, I do appreciate efficiency.

    We took the first road trip in our 535Xi this past weekend, about 250 miles each way. Car now has about 1200 miles. Just for grins, I ran a test to check highway gas mileage. After I got up to speed on Interstate I-81 in the Shenandoah Valley, I reset the avg mph and avg mpg on the car’s computer, and tried to drive at a constant 75 mph while not being heavy-footed with the gas.

    At the end of a 90 mile stretch on the first day, the display read an avg mph of 73.4, and an avg mpg of 27.6. On the second day, at the end of a 40 mile stretch, I averaged 73.8 mph and 30.1 mpg (on less hilly terrain).

    Thanks
    Bruce
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Wait until the engine is fully broken in. My 530i didn't start getting its best mileage until it had over 20,000 miles on the clock. ;)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • renssilsrenssils Posts: 24
    Any comments on the 2008 M45x Sport, especially from M45, M45 Sport, M35x and M35 Sport owners?
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,369
    It looks like there is an issue with the side impact. Here is the news.

    http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070816/crash_tests_sedans.html?.v=7

    Regards,
    OW
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Posts: 317
    No matter what brand you buy, there will be a couple produced that have some bad components. So, no matter what brand I buy, I always order my new one a few thousand miles before the "bumper to bumper" on the old one expires.
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Posts: 317
    Why so apologetic over considering a CTS?
  • I have had 28 Audis. Most of them purchased from the same person, all of them from the same dealership.

    Maybe it is my age or simple sentimentality. . .

    I don't know anyone who has been as "loyal" as I have been.

    Somehow this makes me feel a tiny bit like I am betraying a long time friend for no "good reason."

    I actually hope that American car makers can make world cars, just as the Germans, Japanese and others have done. I actually think if I get a 2008 CTS, I will be possibly going back to what I could have had on a 2004 Audi A6 2.7T, well equipped.

    Looking at another Audi or an Infiniti or even a BMW, on the other hand, seems like I would be buying a new car.

    Somehow a 2008 CTS that is about at the content level of the 2004 A6 2.7T S-Line, seems "not right."

    The heck of it is, as evidenced by more than one post on this site, it is sometimes easy to acquire a European car that -- at MSRP -- is $10,000 more at MSRP for less than the less expensive American car.

    If a $45K CTS leases for about the same as a $55K German, there will be little motivation to "be automotively patriotic."

    The STS, last time, turned out to be less money to buy but more money to lease (which actually meant that the residual on the STS was really low.)

    So, a new Caddy is desirable for many reasons, but may also be unattractive when considered and compared to a European or Asian versions.

    My 2005 all optioned A6 is a prime example of a car that keeps getting younger, when stacked up against the newest 'Merican metal.

    :confuse:
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Posts: 317
    > I beg to differ regarding "content".

    Just a cursory comparison:
    Audi--250hp on premium fuel, 5 speed automatic.
    CTS--300hp on regular fuel, 6 speed automatic.

    I don't "have a dog in this fight". My brother sells Audi. My father drives Cadillac. I own neither, but am considering both for purchase in early spring 2008.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,508
    If a $45K CTS leases for about the same as a $55K German, there will be little motivation to "be automotively patriotic."

    The lease residuals I have seen for a 2008 CTS are:

    24 mo 69%
    30 mo 64%
    36 mo 59%
    48 mo 50%

    How do those compare with Audi, for 2008?
    - Ray
    NOT a leasing expert.....
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Somehow a 2008 CTS that is about at the content level of the 2004 A6 2.7T S-Line, seems "not right."

    Other than the lack of a bluetooth phone system (which I don't think an '04 A6 had either), what is the new CTS lacking v. the rest of the class? The old A6's NAV was basically a joke, while the CTS' flip up touch screen is at least competitive, if maybe not class leading.

    The G35 and 335i are still my favorite entry-lux level cars, but the CTS doesn't seem like a last gen product to me.
  • I am NOT speaking of HP or number of cogs in the transmission when I speak of content.

    I have grown to expect Bluetooth, pushbutton start, smart key, voice response for audio, nav and phone and a host of other "content" items. It is true that a 2004 Audi would have had only a 5 speed auto, but it would have been an SLine with 265 HP and 280 ft pounds of torque at under 2K rpm and I assume it would have equalled or been quicker than the new 2008.

    The issue is that the 2008 CTS seems to be just about where the cars Audi was manufacturing in June 2004 were.

    The 2005 A6 3.2 that I have commenced mfgring in July 2004; it is, I think, ahead of the CTS by some distance by my definition of "content."

    The fact that the CTS seems to be about $10K less is not a bad thing, but if the lease prices are close, well why bother with the CTS?

    The 2009 A6, if I can time it, might be a more satisfying , higher content (by my definition) and higher performing choice.

    The new CTS is a great effort and only about 3 years behind Audi, BMW and Infiniti -- If it is priced right, however, I'll overlook this (probably.)
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Posts: 317
    Ah, you mean gadgets. You probably own an I-phone. I don't even own a cell phone. I don't talk to my car, and I don't want it talking to me. I can parallel park with two turns of the wheel, and I can judge the distance to the car in front of me without a laser beeping at me. I have never backed over anything, despite my not having a camera in my rear bumper. My personal nav system (map + memory) has never gotten me lost, although the nav system in my brother's Audi couldn't find my house. And push button start, wow. I would pay at least an extra $500 to be able to leave my key in my pocket. LOL

    If you like gadgets, great. I don't.
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Posts: 317
    Golly, how could I forget that most important of all gadgets, rain sensing wipers. A special luxury items for blind drivers.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,244
    A kindred spirit. Hang in there -- there aren't many of us looking for this class of car. The gadget I can do best without is the automatic transmission, but certainly agree with you on your list.

    Oh, and don't forget the multiple-motor exercising "feature" that moves the seat/mirrors/radio presets/temperature setting/mood lighting every time a different driver gets in the car. For my car, that would be about twice a year.
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Posts: 317
    Actually I like that feature. I am 6'2" and my wife is 5'. She only drives my car about twice a year, BUT it takes me about 10 minutes to get everything back to my settings, AND this always occurs when I am in a hurry.

    While I am griping, how about, "if you want heated seats on that car (a real nice gadget where I live), you must also buy the $1700 sun roof that eliminates two inches of much needed head room."
  • I understand, really, the desires of folks who want "less" and who do believe "less is more."

    My wife can't drive an automatic, but fears she'll have to learn; she has pushbuttons on her BMW sport steering wheel, but doesn't know which one raises and lowers the volume on her stereo; cruise control -- "fuggetabouddit."

    I do think, however, she has come to envy (slightly) the ability to walk up to the car with a "full load" and have the car unlock; and, I know she wants a phone that responds to the command "dial number 123-4567."

    The former is mainly for convenience (I don't use the pushbutton start that often for the simple fact that the FAT key is not comfortable to leave in my pocket -- but I do like the auto recognition feature) but the latter is for safety and I do believe that "big brother" will start escalating the fines and other punishments if we do not "succumb" to Bluetooth with totally hands free and eyes free in-car telephoning.

    I have the built-in cradle for my wireless and, frankly, I am such a luddite, I still call it a car phone, choosing NEVER to remove it from my car even though it is about the size of a pack of gum (no I do not own an "i"-anything, it is a super small Sony phone that fits into the Audi cradle and uses the roof antenna and car's battery for power.)

    The cars that I like to DRIVE, have an array of "gadgets" typically that makes voice command, Bluetooth, etc, more and more "safety features" by virtue of the distraction reduction such technology permits.

    Parktronic -- well, even my "I'll row my own" wife, loves front and rear parktronic (on her X3.) We both enjoy the Xenon lights, LED usage and the fact that the lights turn with the steering wheel. AWD with a neutral or rear bias too is a technology we love -- maybe "gadget" suits, often the phrase used is "content." Memory power seats, I can take them or leave them since 99% of the time, I'm the only person who drives my car. However, I'll admit to having one button on the auto adjusting seats and mirrors programmed just to reduce what little inconvenience that 1% of the time may cause.

    I've got surround sound, sat radio and a 6 disk CD changer, don't own an ipod and wouldn't bother to populate a hard drive -- but Radio Tivo using the hard drive, well, "instant tang!"

    I grew up in an era where only the wealthy had a/c and power steering and brakes -- and only the really wealthy had power windows. Hard to find cars today without this "content."

    A 2008 anything that lacks these "choices" in a climate where the Japanese and the Europeans and even some of the Koreans have this stuff, seems to be a step backwards, no matter how much horsepower and gears you offer.

    I don't mind anyone's decision to deselect content (or gadgets) -- what I mind is bringing out a near LPS car as a 2008 model where so many cars (some at even lesser prices) have had this level of content available since 2004 (and earlier.)

    I mind not having the manual transmission offered if you want AWD -- but, I'll accept the auto shifter, since it has the 6th gear and the adaptive mode.

    You say potato and I'll say potaato. . . . :surprise:
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Just curious, what do you think of the new M45x?

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  • Hey lexusguy, it looks good from the front in a kinda Japanesie sort of way. It looks like an Altima from the side. Did they freshen the rear? It looks a little less chunky and more rounded, better than the previous model. But looks are not the point here with this car.Even though when I drove it I wasnt particularly impressed(thought it felt too heavy and leaned a little in the curves)I thought for what you got for the price it was a pretty good car. They are blowing it, I feel at Infinity. They almost have it right in the G, but everything else is ugly. They have their cars engineered very well and are reliable. Wish they would lure away some of the designers at Mercedes. Mercedes hasnt made an ugly car in my humble opinion and they are getting even more so with the passing years. Every class that Mercedes competes in, it is a least the best looking one in every one.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Mercedes hasnt made an ugly car in my humble opinion and they are getting even more so with the passing years. Every class that Mercedes competes in, it is a least the best looking one in every one.

    I must respectfully disagree. The first generation ML looked like a minivan. The R-class really doesn't have a good angle. The SL borrows way too many cues from the half as expensive CLK, and compared to gorgeous coupes like the Jaguar XK or Maserati GranTurismo, it looks rather dull and pedestrian.

    I like the E and CLS shapes, and the S and CL look good - provided they have the AMG body treatment. Other than that...
  • As you may recall, I did plunk down a deposit on an M35X and was brought back to Audi by a huge cut in the lease price.

    For some reason, my current sense is that the M's still are attractive in almost any guise -- only thing they lack is an extra cog or two in the transmission, but they do well with their five speeds, so that is not much of an issue.

    If the M35's can come up with 300HP from the V6, I would think the need for the V8 is less.

    I still WANT more power from my A6 3.2, but I have never been in any situation when I NEEDED power that the 255HP Audi motivator was insufficient.

    The new CTS with the DI V6 is quite attractive and with all the goodies is MSRP $48K.

    The M45X, like the A6 4.2 seems to add too much MSRP for too little return -- but more power is, make no mistake, always more fun!

    Sometimes, not often, but sometimes, I think the styling of the M's hasn't worn as well as the styles we've seen recently from Germany, however.

    I got behind the wheel of the new CTS yesterday at my dealer -- it seems a little small, getting out of my A6, but at least from the look and feel of the thing, it is, perhaps the best Cadillac EVER (OK, in my life -- and I just turned 56.)

    I hope there is a factory implementation of Bluetooth with voice command -- at least -- of the phone function. Could be a deal breaker.
  • Lexusguy, if the only thing you find ugly in the Merc lineup is the suv's, oh well. Suv's arent supposed to be pretty or they wouldnt call them "utility" which implies usefulness and function over looks. The SL borrows from another model in the lineup: so what? I think all Merc's have a certain sameness to them much like all Nissans, Lexi, and your Jags. Its called branding. All I said was in the competition of model against model the Mercs look better: ferinstance E over 550, S over 750, and C over 3 for pure lines of beauty. I was not talking about the way they drive as I prefer the "feel" of BMW's even though I think most of us "put up" with the looks of the damn things!
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    ferinstance E over 550, S over 750, and C over 3 for pure lines of beauty.

    I'll agree with E and S, but the new C-class is a bit odd looking to me. I think the 3 series, especially in coupe form, looks better.
  • Lexusguy, Im assuming you have a lexus. What kind do you have. Do you want the M?
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