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Luxury Performance Sedans



  • I would love to have the car you described. I don't really want a "sport" car. I spent 17 years in a '65 Vette, 4-speed, 350 hp. I could run over a dime and tell you heads or tails.

    I drove a 2004 ES until January when I traded it for an RX for my wife. Now I have her car ('99 Aurora) and am looking for my car. I drove the GS and it was too small. I had a crowded feeling. I like the M35 and RL. I am more interested in the L of LPS. I want all the toys (voice recognition, intelligent cruise control, push button start, backup camera, etc.) I would love a baby LS because I don't really want to spend $60-$70 on a car. I was hoping to love the new ES, even if 0-60 was 7.5 sec. My '04 was smooth and quiet, it just didn't have enough toys.

  • An Infiniti M may be just the ticket!
  • "why not scrap the ES and GS and come up with a "baby" LS"

    I think that's what the ES350 was meant to be. A baby LS. The GS is for people who want something sportier both in ride and looks.

    I saw the ES350 and the new LS460 at the chicago auto show. I think Lexus failed in their endeavor. It does has a lot of worthy technology, but IMO, Lexus failed to make it feel like a smaller LS. The inside didn't look as plush and the styling was too bold. Presenting it in a hot red color sure didn't help either.

    Although I wouldn't buy it, I suspect Lexus will sell a lot of them. It has a lot to offer for the money.
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Posts: 692
    In this week's "Automotive News," Acura pretty much admitted that the RL is way overstuffed and overpriced which has led to its poor sales. They intend to bring out a less loaded, de-contented version of the RL in the fall that may list for $7,000-$10,000 less. Not a moment too soon. Or, alternatively, they could just drop the sticker price of the current model by that amount, and it might be competitive at that price point.
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Posts: 692
    Lexusguy: how do you figure 4 GS's in the fall? The hybrid is added, but don't you think they will drop the 300 when they introduce the 350? And they will drop the 430 when they bring out the 460, no? Or something.
  • I drove today what seemed to be an idea for your next car [me to for that matter} A 2003 cpo'd M5. 34,000 miles, loaded with nav, and a REAL manual. All for a low low price of $49,500. {negotiable I'm sure} Boy was this car a blast....Dan
  • I jus'won't do it w/o AWD.

    But I am confident it was a blast.

    Perhaps the B8 S4 will be ummmmm, "adequate."
  • . . .washed today. I sure hope car colors are within the purview of this erudite forum. . . So here goes:

    Just wondering what the standard, normal, most frequent (three?) colors we LPS types select might be?

    Apparently BMW's only come in two colors, Black and Silver . . . not that there is anything wrong with these colors, but here in River City if you had a black BMW you could lose it at a Reds or Bengals home game -- uh, say when Pittsburgh (baseball or football team) was in town for the weekend. My wife, fond as she is of Black cars has decided, for whatever reason that her next BMW -- and she swears it will be a Bimmer -- will be dark green metallic du jour.

    Even the Infinitis all seem to be silver. Only the Mercedes seem to come in other colors -- although I have seen a couple other NON black or silver A6's, but -- not many of this model either.

    Is this a lemming like behavior or is it simply "the current style?"

    Anywho -- anyone NOT have black or a silver derivative and willing to admit it? I must've been nutz to get green, heck Infiniti doesn't even offer it.

    Thank god I'm leasing, the resale must be really poor.

  • warthogwarthog Posts: 216
    Down here in the sunny south, black is non-starter for me. At 5:00 on a July afternoon, getting into a black car is a WW2 Japanese prisoner experience. Metallic silver, on the other hand, does a great job of reflecting the heat and, as a bonus, hides dirt marvelously.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,577
    Around these parts you can get a Mercedes in any color as long as it's silver.
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    That's what I want, a money green colored car. None of those silver coin colored cars.
  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    on BMW's.

    We have the Oxford Green with natural brown leather on our 325xi.

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    In my opinion, the GS's failures are entirely the fault of the GS. The fact that it ultimately failed in its mission to be a serious BMW 5 fighter is not the fault of the ES.

    Here's the problem with the RWD\AWD, V6 powered "baby LS" you are proposing - no Toyotas are built that way. Without a Toyota platform to utilize, you can factor in a $10K price increase, in otherwords, GS300 money. The ES isnt supposed to compete with the A6, E, and 5. Its supposed to come in around $35K, and dominate its competition, cars like the Lucerne, and Lincoln "MKZ". You'll notice that Acura shied away from trying to compete directly with ES, and Infiniti gave up entirely. There's no reason to mess with a product that works. What needs work, are the GS300 and 430.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Simple. GS300, GS300 AWD, GS430, GS450h. The bigger engines shouldnt change the number of models.
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    Here's the problem with the RWD\AWD, V6 powered "baby LS" you are proposing - no Toyotas are built that way.

    Now it's coming back to me. This came up about a month ago in the HELM forum, and you were the one who mentioned the Japanese Toyota called the Crown Majesta and posted some interesting pics of it. You even said it came in 6 and 8 cyl models, and at least the 8 had AWD. For those LPSers who are interested in that car, start here and read through the next 8 messages.

    Crown Majesta discussion

    Anyway, I agree with you that the GS needs work.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I just don't think the typical Lexus buyer is looking for sport when shopping for a car, especially one the size of the GS, mid-size. A loaded GS430 has always been to close to a base LS430 imo. When a buyer walks in a sees the tight/cramped GS and then drives it finds that it really isn't that sporty like say a M45 or 550i, I can see them saying "may as well get the LS430". Now this may change once the LS460 goes on sale especially if the move the base price over 60K. This is why I think the GS300 has always outsold the GS430 by like 2 or 3 to one over the years. I think if they price the LS460 where a flagship should be priced (over 60K) the GS and particularly the upcoming GS460 will have some breathing room. Then they need to make it sportier for buyers to deal with the cramped demisions and smallish trunk. IMO.

    The middle level segment already has a luxury leader in the E-Class and a sporty leader in the form of the 5-Series with the A6 and M chasing them respectively. The RL,GS and S-Type are the odd ones out to me.

  • . . .perhaps if one is seeking a bit more sport, a price that while hardly low probably represents "bang for the buck," and, like an increasing number of folks, one wants the added performance and confidence of AWD, dare I suggest a nice long test drive of an A6 4.2 V8 S-Line?

    In S-Line clad, at least at one of our two Audi franchises here in River City, it is pretty easy to locate this car with the 3.2 FSI V6, a bit more rare -- but not impossible -- to find with the throaty (at full cry) 4.2 V8.

    Moreover, if you are, indeed, looking for a bit larger car (larger than the GS, i.e.) the A6 has both a real back seat and a real trunk.

    I test drove the A6 4.2 with sport package (it was a 2005, pre S-Line i.e.) and, I assume, the suspension and the sportiness. of the S-Line are probably for all intents and purposes identical. Hard to imagine a car this big being "nimble," but it was.

    Even if you just can't see yourself in a German car, let alone an Audi, I can promise you that a test drive of a 2006 A6 4.2 S-Line will be very entertaining and fun.

    Just a thought. :shades:
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    ... They intend to bring out a less loaded, de-contented version of the RL in the fall that may list for $7,000-$10,000 less. ...

    I think they should keep the current standard equipment list and just drop the price to just a few grand ($3K - $5K?) more than a maxed-out TL.
  • I like the Cambridge Green. However, there are no Audi dealers within 200 miles. I wish the RL or M had that choice. I also like the Carbon Grey Pearl that Acura offers on the RL.

  • I think they should keep the current standard equipment list and just drop the price to just a few grand ($3K - $5K?) more than a maxed-out TL.

    I agree. The RL with the Tech package starts at $53K while an M with Journey and Tech is only $49K.

    However, for my zip Edmunds shows TMV of $47K so people around me are buying them. Last weekend my closest Acura dealer only had two on the lot. The salesman said they are moving quickly.

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