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Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • jobiejobie Posts: 47
    I drove the 550i and 535xi - I went with 535xi optioned out almost identical to yours...mine is plat gray, natural brown interior with antracite headliner; 18" wheels too - great combo. I admit the 550i SP looks great, but somewhat too flashy for me (and I'd be afraid of scraping those 19" wheels). xi for the northeast won't hurt (I'm in upstate NY), even thought RWD with snows would suffice.(I'm in upstate NY). It's only been a few weeks for me, but I can't wait to drive this thing every chance I get - of course I drove an LR3 for 2.5 years after 6 years of BMW's...I certainly have the SUV bug out of my system.
    I'm not a Jag guy, but I've always heard the xj8 was a great driver and value, especially these days, and I like what they did with the '08. Good luck.
  • What are the lease numbers for such a 5x?

    I'm at that "itch stage" and although I have yet to drive the new CTS, I am still "drawn" to the Audi A6 and the BMW 5 (and I have driven the Bimmer with the 300HP engine and it is soooo sweeet.)

    Jus' wandering, or wondering, if you get my drift. :surprise:
  • For the 535xi loaded up, I was quoted just below 900 per month with tax in payment, 0 down and 15K per year. They have a very good rate now and an extra incentive if you are a current BMW driver.
  • You are right, it is a scary coincidence. And what you thought about CLS , I did too.

    So why Jag? I did love my LS 430 ( also 2004 ) with Sport and camera and was spoiled by it's almost perfection. I also own LX470 2005, so was ready for another Lexus LS460 not less. When I was faced by the fact that every one Lexus dealer expects me to pay an additional $400.00 on car with same MSRP and on same terms. I gave up on Lexus and looked at all of other models of MB, BMW and even Audi that you did. I need a sizable 4 door sedan since I have to drive with two kids in the back. Still the only coupe that I was ready to go for was BMW 650. It was July and lease numbers were bad. So in addition of not liking most what I looked at their leases were outrages. Idea to look at Jaguar came from nowhere. I stopped at Hornburg on Sunset and to look at this XJ8, since it did fall into that category of big luxury car. Suddenly I realized : why look more?
    It has right size, luxury enough, v8, drives excellent. I decided to give their internet dept. a shot. Since we all know that Jaguars are not that popular they gave close to $12000 off MSRP. So numbers suddenly became right. In my mind on Jaguar I did not want to spend much more than $900 a month on 3 year lease. So I went with just XJ , not VP.
    I got a short body, long would cost another $100 a month.
    Yes it less loaded that what I am used to, but to be honest that convenient keyless entry and rearview camera is the only options that I am still missing. I got it on 24 month term with $875/month ( tax incl )and total DO $2000. For me it is also takes around 6 month and I am ready for a new car so 2 years is better than 3. Maybe by than I will get a sport coupe.
    Try to take a closer look at that car, it is not that outdated like some might think. After all it as in the same league as all other cars that both of us considered, but for much less money. Good luck and let me know what else I can tell you that might help your decision.
  • Well the similarities continue. I also cannot justify the new lease price on the LS 460 vs mine (I was at about 945 tax included) and they want 1200 or so for the new one. I did drive the jag again today and I liked it even more this time. I too don't need the long wheel base but I would never get a car without Nav, bluetooth and upgraded radio. Did you get the nav and better stereo? How does it compare the Lexus Mark Levinson (great system) and Lexus Nav? After my test drive, I got back in the my Lexus and it seemed to drive like a much bigger car than the Jag. I liked that the Jag felt smaller and a bit sportier.
    One concern I have is the seat comfort for long drives or short drives that take a long time (whether it's the LIE or the 405, I think you know what I mean). I didn't find the seats overly comfortable in the Lexus as I prefer a firmer more orthopedic type seat like the German cars have. I thought the acceleration was very good and I liked the engine growl. If I go for it, I'm going to see if I can get a 24 mos lease like you. Do you have an 08 or 07?
    By the way, I also took the BMW 550i with sport package out for a long drive today (the dealer knows me and just throws me the keys so it's a fun way to test a car). The car was very fast, handled great but it's definitely a sports car in a sedan body. I've become a bit used to the more "relaxed" luxury ride so I'm not sure how I'd adjust back to the sporty ride. But make no mistake, it's a great car with tons of performance, a lot of tech stuff like heads up display, I-pod, Nav with traffic updates, HD radio (which was amazing) etc. So I think it's between that and the Jag. If money were no issue I'd either go for the MB S Class or Bentley GT (I see more than a few of the GTs tooling around Beverly Hills every time I'm out there) or maybe the new CL but I'm not willing to get into the 90-160K range for a car at this point.
    Funny on the CLS. What a great looking and driving car but I swear, my back hurt every time I got in or out and I felt like my head was going to hit the door frame. It's a great looking car though.
  • I had Mark Levinson , bluetooth, navigation and camera, chrome 18inch wheels in my LS and paid only $850 incl tax with DO $1500. It was a very good deal via Wells Fargo. So same as you I did not see that much of a difference in new LS, to pay $1200+ on a car with msrp only $67000+ ( short WB, basically not that loaded base model). Agree with you that if money would be an issue I would go with S550, that by the way is not that much more, I was quoted around $1300+.
    Back to Jaguar. Mine is 2007, they were just expecting to get 2008. I was OK with that since 08 would change much. By look I can tell a year of every single car quite close except Jaguars. Navigation Yes. Bluetooth Yes. And I like it more than Lexus. The whole phone book from your phone is accessible via a touch screen, so you can scroll and use it to call while driving. And there is no few second delay that I had in LS at the beginning of each call. Front seats are more comfortable than LS, they grip your body better, even leather is not that soft and perforated. Spacious in the front, but did take some time to get used to it. It is just different. Leg space in the rear in my short WB is smaller, but my kids are in car seats so I can leave with it. Overall length of the car is same or slightly longer that LS430, but you were right, it feels and drives as a smaller sedan. Mine doesn't have an upgraded stereo, one disc could be disappointing but I use mostly IPOD via radio.
    I will tell you more about my decision process: In mid $800 I could get BMW 535, even the whole world loves this car I really don't care about it. You are right that Bmw 550 with sport, is a great drive but too stiff and $1100 is too much for what still looks like 525, plus it is too small. Bmw 750 is a great car I almost decided to spend $1200+ on it. I guess I am too practical. But at different stages of my life I have different ideas how much I want to spend on my car. When I had compared it with with my 3 year old LS and did not find enough advantages to pay the difference. Forgot to mention that looked into MB E550, another powerful sedan. Again even the most loaded one was that it was small, quite cheep looking interior and the fact that you can see more E classes on the streets of LA than Honda Civics.
    I hope it helps, but still be careful, I want you to make a right decision for you. It definitely a different type of car that you and me used to but on short term lease it should be a good experience. Almost forgot. Jaguar has first complimentary service at 12500 mls, the way that I drive under 12000 mls per year, I might not need a second service. On Lexus, other than first, service every 5000mls was getting annoying, plus I had to replace all beaks and tires, they don't last till the end of 3 year leas on Lexuses.

    Good luck again.
  • It's interesting on the service that Lexus suggests 5K where you pay but on BMW where they pay,it's around 10K miles between service. I think that Lexus is generating a lot of coin for service. Most of today's cars can go much longer between oil changes and it would be surprising to me if Lexus cars were not as advanced in this way as the others.
    I agree with you on the E Class which I also looked at. Too bad they don't make it like a smaller S Class with it's very nice interior but the E interior just misses and I can't get over that it's the most common taxi cab every time I go to Europe. I think that the only great Benzes are the SL, S, CLS, and CL. The CLK vert is nice too. The next level down is a real drop. Oh, and the GL looks nice if you want an SUV, but I'm over that for now. Regarding the 5 series, again, I agree that the 550i is very expensive. And now that the 535 is just about as quick for about 8K less, it doesn't make so much sense. I asked if you could get the aero kit for the 535 that's on the SP550 and was told that it's about a 3K add on at port and can't be residualized on the lease so will run around 100 per month on a 36 month lease-ouch! Still it would have the look and similar performance to the 550i, better gas mileage, all wheel drive if you want,and for a good bit less. I would say that the only thing in the 5 that was a tad disappointing was the interior. In a car that listed for almost 70K (550i), it was a bit stark. So you can get a stripped 525 for around 45K? or a 550i for 70K and the interior is the same. I think BMW should take a look at that. The 6 on the other hand, has a nicer interior.
    It's curious to me that you got Nav on you XJ but not upgraded stereo. I guess they don't bundle those together like Lexus. Was the Ipod interface from Jag or after market add-on? Does it work through the stereo as far as tuning etc? Wow, you can use the phone book in blue tooth while driving? That's a big plus. It drives me crazy in the Lexus. Can you program the Nav while driving too? (I use a short cut that I read on an Edmunds board that allows you to bypass the Lexus Nav cut off so you can program it while driving but not for the phone).
  • I got this Ipod interface from Apple store. It works through the radio and car charger. Again it is not perfect but works.
    If you like MB CLK convertible, back in June, 550 with a MRSP in low $70 were leased for under 900 a month.
    Another nice car was just leased by my brother. It is Lexus GS350. Car has it all and not expensive. Sure it would be a little step down from big luxury sedans but again it is hard to tell where is that line of separation. I probably would consider this GS back when I was on the market if I would know better. Since you mentioned a BMW 535, I thought of that alternative. It would be no sport package that actually looks so M5. HP will be similar and quality of interior is unbelievably better.
  • Thanks so much for your imput on the CTS. You're absolutely correct, I test drove it and was not impress at all. I have decided not to get the BMW, its an awsome car however its not in my price range. I visited a lexus dealer and was very impress with ES350 2007. Any advice?

    thanks
  • Thanks for your advice. Due to alot of negative reviews on the AUDI, I have decided not to consider it, instead I am looking at the lexus ES350 2007.

    thanks
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    An ES350... Hmmmm. The main difference between the CTS, the three and five series BMWs and other competitors like the C-Class, the Infiniti G and Lexus IS is that the Lexus ES is Front Wheel Drive and quite "unsporty" by comparison.

    If a cushy FWD ride is what you're looking for, then the ES is possibly the perfect ride (although I would look at the Acura TL as well).

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • I agree, if you're looking for luxury, style and a great resale value the bimmer 5 series is it. My only problem is the price, its well over my range. I am considering the Lexus ES350 2007. I was very impress with this car and the price is not all bad. Any advice?

    thanks
  • kgarykgary Posts: 180
    If you like the ES, take a look at the loaded Camry and Avalon and save a couple of bucks.
  • At the risk of being piled up on, I'll ask, WHAT negative reviews?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I wouldn't think the lack of a V8 is the reason for the Acura's lackluster sales. If "magically" an Acura RL V8 would be brought out otherwise identical to the current 6 cylinder version, I seriously doubt there would be anything more than a temporary bump in sales.

    I agree, the RL's problem is the RL, not the engine. In a field of fantastic cars, it's merely an also ran. Even the S80 is better. I also agree with what others have said, the BMW 3.0TT is a far different beast than Acura's 3.5. The BMW engine produces in reality around 330hp, while the RL's 3.5 after the new SAE spec is down to 290hp. More importantly though, the 3.0TT produces V8 levels of torque barely above idle, while the RL's engine has to rev to 5000rpm in order to produce just 256ft.lbs. That simply isn't enough for a 4020lb. car, which is why the RL is so slow. A V8 would make it faster, but that would also make it even more nose heavy. The car in its current iteration is simply unfixable. They've got to start over from scratch.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,380
    I agree...the RL reminds me of an Asian oldsmobile. Perhaps they should bring back the Legend.

    Regards,
    OW
  • rjlaerorjlaero Posts: 659
    I have a 2006 A6 4.2, and it's an awesome car. Audi's V8 is such a sweet engine. It's got amazing purr to it that makes me actually want to turn the radio off and hear the engine as I run thru the gears. I've been in a lot of high end BMW's and 400 plus HP AMG Mercedes', and none of them are as satisfying as sitting behind the wheel of a V8 Audi. At least not for me. There's more to it than whose car is fastest from 0-60.

    The 3.2 A6 is nice, but it's a bit underpowered @ 255hp. It's a totally different driving experience between the V6 and the V8 A6.

    When comparing 60k cars, the 4.2 A6 is probably the best bang for the buck out there. You can easily spend 5-7k more more on a comparably equipped AWD BMW or MB.

    But everybody seems to want lease deals, and the A6 isn't the car to buy beacuse of a low lease payment. From the sales figures I see, Audi really doesn't seem to worry about how many A6's they're selling in the US market. It's not the best "deal" out there, but certainly near the top of best cars in that category.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Perhaps they should bring back the Legend.

    The Legend never really went away. When the Legend became the RL in '96, it was still the Honda Legend in Japan. The problem was what they did to the car. The original Legend was low and sleek, and it had great steering for a FWD car. Sales were great. In '96, they decided to go after the LS400, by turning the RL into a boring luxo-cruiser with loads of body roll, ultra-light, ultra-numb steering, and styling that copied the LS.

    Unfortunately the LS was already a copy of the S-class, so the RL was a slow, boring, weak V6 powered FWD copy of a copy. Sales absolutely tanked, and never recovered. It took Acura nine years to come up with a replacement for their colossal failure, and that replacement turned out to be a colossal failure. Acura just doesn't seem to understand the mid-lux category.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,380
    Good information, I did not know that. It amazes me of the corporate decisions at some car companies.

    Regards,
    OW
  • Need some opionions from others about tires. Looking at the 2008 535xi. Am getting the sport pkg, so the car will have 18" tires. I do not want to have to buy winter and summer tires so am trying to find a very good all season tire that will work for both. Am in a snowy area so need something that handles well in the winter.

    The BMW salesman has suggested a Kumho all-season tire or a Michelin all-season tire. Of course, he got this info. from a tire guy that his dealership uses and he did not know which Michelin tire the guy was talking about.

    I have heard from other auto blogs that the Nokian WR is a superb all season tire and does very well in the snow.

    Any opinions??

    One other thing--- I love the front end of the 550, but need the all-wheel drive. For $4500 the dealer will install that sport grille on the 535xi that is on the 550. Seems a bit pricey to me!

    I cannot wait to get rid of my 2005 Acura RL--- it is so boring and has had a lot of glitches that require us taking it back to the dealer on a regular basis. Very disappointing car. It is our 3rd Acura and the quality is not the same as our previous Acuras.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,161
    The 535xi should come with all-season tires, even if you get the sport package..

    Only the RWD models come with summer tires..

    (I'm pretty sure.. but, you should check)

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • The salesman told me that it comes with high-performance tires that would not work here during the winter even with the all-wheel drive.

    So-- guess I'm not sure at this point:)
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I do not want to have to buy winter and summer tires so am trying to find a very good all season tire that will work for both. Am in a snowy area so need something that handles well in the winter.

    I highly recommend the Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position. Tire Rack rated them #2 behind Pilot Sport A\S in the dry, and #1 in the wet, and they are a lot more affordable than the Michelins. I've been using them on my LS lately, they are fantastic. Very quiet, and brilliant in the rain.
  • warthogwarthog Posts: 216
    The BMWUSA website has the sport package coming with summer tires, with the appropriate caveat that they are not suitable for ice and snow.
  • lynnminny,

    When I ordered my 535Xi this past May, the sport package by itself still comes with the standard 17" wheels and all season tires you get without the sport package.

    If you do order the sport package, then you can also order optional 18" wheels which come with run flat summer performance tires.

    If you go with the 18" wheels and tires, then based on my own experience, I do not recommend using the summer performance tires in winter driving conditions, notwithstanding AWD.

    Thanks
    Bruce
  • So continuing my decision process, I took another look at the S550 (another poster earlier suggested that this would be the perfect car for me). It's beautiful and has a great presence.
    The interior quality is first rate and the car feels very substantial. As for the drive, it was very smooth and quiet but it's a car that I'd rather be driven in than drive. It felt a bit heavy to me and wasn't fun to drive. It's one serious machine and I think they did a great job but it's not for me. I prefer the way the Jag XJ handled and drove.
    It felt a bit sportier and was much lighter. The MB was like driving a limo. I also took a long spin in the LS 460. They did a great job on the body and I think everything is a half notch up from my LS 430 but they are still quite similar. Interesting that the salesman kept stressing that the "entire car is different" and that "nothing's the same as the last model." I got the idea that this was drilled into him as part of the speech. Maybe too many people feel that they are similar to the last model and therefore balk at paying 30% more (at least that's what the lease deal works out as). I mean, the last model is the epitome of smooth and quiet. How much smoother and quieter can it be? They aren't going for road feel. I would say that the brakes felt more responsive, the car felt a bit quicker, the ML stereo was a bit more powerful and the seats were more comfortable. And I like the new body style. But it's still evolution not revolution. They really over sold it when the marketing dept said that this intro would be as important as the first introduction of the LS400. They would be better off under-promising and over-delivering.
  • If you are leasing a BMW, you should know that you must put ONLY BMW authorized rubber on the car. Now, of course, this does NOT mean you cannot use the tire you want.

    What it means is that if you use a tire that is not on the approved list, you will be charged for the replacement of the tires to comply with "the list."

    This strikes me as darn near absurd -- but there is some logic to this.

    Digression: my wife's 2005 X3 WITH the sport package came with H rated, 50 series, all season tires (Mich MXV's in some flavor.)

    The tires were OK but they were not at all what one would consider Ultra High Performance all seasons.

    When the OE tires crapped out at 30K miles, we replaced them with "jen u wine" UHP All Seasons in the same size.

    The handling was better, the look was better and the all season quality was fine for us here in SW Ohio.

    Woa, dealer says, "when you turn in the car, you will have to buy NEW tires of the size and BRAND and model on "the list." Tread life remaining on the tires YOU bought? Yep?!? Tough nuggies (or is that noogies, Todd?) -- Bridgestones are NOT on the list, bzzzzzz you lose.

    In the days (like now) of mass customization, specifying the tires you want from "the list" should NOT be an issue. God knows, we would have never chosen the Mich tires that came with this thing.

    Be careful. Here is what you must do if you lease:

    1. Buy the car
    2. Buy the tires at the time you buy the car
    3. Save the OE tires
    4. Put your tires on the car the day you get it
    5. When the tires you put on die, put the OE tires on
    6. Live with it until you turn the car in

    OR

    Pay for an extra set of tires at lease turn in time.

    :surprise:
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Digression: my wife's 2005 X3 WITH the sport package came with H rated, 50 series, all season tires (Mich MXV's in some flavor.)

    Why is it that so many new luxury cars come with those crappy Michelins? Some kind of pact? I don't understand why they would purposely worsen the ride, handling and grip of their cars with such lousy rubber.
  • james27james27 Posts: 433
    I had some Nokian snows on my Audi and felt that they road and handled very good. I would have no qualms installing their all-season tire as it has a snow rating for areas that require it as well.
  • jobiejobie Posts: 47
    I have the 535xi SP with 18" wheel option...it does come with high-performance run-flats - 245's on the front and 275's on the rear...definitely not for winter. I'm planning to get a winter tire/wheel package from Tirerack.
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