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Luxury Performance Sedans



  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,069
    New RL ad:

    "Buy one, get one Free!"

  • docnukemdocnukem Posts: 485
    Don't you mean:

    "Buy a TL and we'll throw in an RL for FREEEEEEE!"
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,069
    That would work too!

    Wow, though, the RL ought to be a stone cold bargain for one already in stock, I would assume.

    The RL despite my own biases is a darn nice car and a worthy LPS player -- with the incentives that OUGHT to be out there to move the product, well, how 'bout no money down and $499 for 36 months on a 15K mile per year lease?

    And, no sec dep either!
  • marleybarrmarleybarr Posts: 334
    Last Sunday, I drove over to the new $8 million Audi dealership in St. Paul and it certainly is breathtakingly beautiful!The showroom looks just like Audi headquarters in Germany. They have about 50 used and about 80 new Audis for sale on the lot.They claim to now be the largest Audi dealer in the country sitting on about 20 acres with Mercedes and Porsche building their own separate facilities next door coming in 5 years or so.To spend that much on infrastructure and have all that business "faith" for one brand of car does motivate me to atleast seriously consider the Audi brand for my next auto purchase/lease.

    I wonder how many potential buyers like Mark will question the wisdom of the v-8 or v-10 engine w/ $3+ per gallon coming soon to a station near you?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,069
    Diesel for me, please.

    Our local mini Audi headquarters was over $6,000,000 (we have two dealers not owned by the same folks, too) last year and they sell 50 cars a month.

    The math doesn't add up in the near term, so I have to conclude that optimism and a sense of more good things to come are at play here, too. :surprise:
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yes you're correct. The facelifted E should arrive in June/July. Going to be a long few months!

  • marleybarrmarleybarr Posts: 334
    Don't know the ins/outs or the monthly overhead of a $6 million Audi dealership, but would assume that the "pressure" on the salespeople and service writers to perform must be much greater than before they moved to this incredibly glitzy new Audi headquarters. I believe that the new St. Paul Audi location is the fanciest dealership of any make in town!
  • i really cant decide which i want for my first car. they are close to equivalant price. almost the same features and everything. an advantage to the a6 is the s line package u can put on it. anybody have an answer to which is better???
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,069
    The A6 3.2 is 255HP and 243 pound feet of torque and it is AWD.

    The 525xi (it is an X I assume) has the 6speed manual.

    If you are going with the auto trans, the Audi, otherwise the BMW is more likely to be your fave.

    There is no sport option that includes a performance upgrade on the 5X's.

    If you are looking at a 525 NON X model, the Audi Sline, by far will blow the 525 away in both Lux and Perf as a Sedan.

    But I am one of the few members of the lunatic fringe.

    For I cannot imagine getting the BMW with an automatic and without AWD -- and if you don't consider the stick shift the BMW isn't even close.

    I am sure to be called on this -- but I stand resolute.

    Now upgrade to the 530xi keep the stick opt for the the sport package (in name only) AND the 18" wheels and tires and the BMW is the winna and champeen despite its fake sport package.

    Since most folks don't want a real sport package, I assume you can tolerate the BMW with the Lucerne effect. If you care about crispness, the Sline makes both an appearance and performance difference.

    Based on the discount, the A6 can be had with a sweeeeet V8 with Sline. Today, no such BMW can be had.

    Go for the stick shift.

    Else go for the Audi.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    What about the 7k units of ES, 4k units of TL and 3k units each of CTS and G? They are all mid-sized luxury sedans, too, if a 525i with $4xx/mo lease price can be counted as a mid-sized luxury sedan.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,069
    Nice as they are, they are NOT currently in the LPS class. The cars you noted are Near LPS cars.

    The Premium class as is commonly defined cannot include FWD cars either.

    I may personally argue that FWD is capable of better performance than RWD, but this is a non starter argument and I understand the reasons.

    The CTS probably is more of a 3 series competitor.

    The TL would go up against the A4 or Merc C class, not the A6 or M class Infiniti.

    You may disagree and I may at least see your point of view, but the pragmatist in me understands what can pass for LPS and what can only Lust for inclusion.

    The ES, TL and CTS (and G) are not in the same league as the GS, RL, STS (and M) at this point.

    Someone once said, it is just not worth going there.

    Me, I'd at least consider the Chrysler 300C AWD for consideration.

    I am often wrong.

    But never uncertain.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    As Mark said, this is the wrong class for those cars. Compared to the Germans, the Japanese have a somewhat strange approach in the entry class, because some of their cars are specifically designed for our market, and thus a lot bigger than the German world market cars. Despite this, they are still in the $30-40K entry category.

    Acura competes with the C230, 325, and A4 2.0T with the TSX, and with the V6 (or I6) powered versions of these cars with the TL.

    Lexus competes in the entry performance class with the IS. The ES is in another category all together. Its competition is the "MKZ" and LaCrosse\Lucerne.

    The G, despite its size, is an entry level car. In other markets it is available with a smaller 2.5L engine, but in the U.S. we just get the big VQ35 as the only option.
  • edspider1edspider1 Posts: 195
    What is worth waiting for on the 07 E-Class? I thought it was just a new steering wheel, drop brake-by-wire, and some very minor changes to the rear end. I thought the interior and engine choices would be the same, although the CDI flavor gets the Bluetec upgrade. Is there more?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    although the CDI flavor gets the Bluetec upgrade

    Other than Blutec it sounds all cosmetic.

    I find the Blutec upgrade quite interesting, although the E itself is not my kind of car ( maybe I will begin to like it in a few decades or so )
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    And whoever said CR has a Japanese bias when it comes to cars! :)
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    They dont. CR has a bias about reliable cars. Japanese cars are the most reliable. Therefore...
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Ok, therefore...the CR results are a mere reflection of the Japanese car biases that are held by a majority of surveyed CR readers.

    And as CR continues picking Japanese cars as their top picks then CR will attract even more readers with a Japanese car bias.

    The superiority of Japanese cars according to CR is nothing more than a reflection of biases versus real reliability.

    Here is an analogy: If the President of the USA was elected based on NY Times readers' surveys , then there would never be a Republican President.
  • docnukemdocnukem Posts: 485
    You are making a huge assumption that CR readers have a Japanese bias. I know of no study showing people with such a bias are more likely to return CR surveys.

    Have you seen the CR survey? It is not a poll for what kind of car someone would choose. Even if more people with Japanese cars return the survey, don't you think the results are weighted to reflect the number of responses per brand?

    Put another way, you are implying that even those surveyed with non-Japanese cars have a bias for Japanese cars. The CR editors have a bias towards reliability rather than performance or styling, granted. They have their biases, but they are not dummies when it comes to statistics.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Is it mere coincidence that a Infiniti M driver like yourself is an adamant defender of CR? Especially when it is selected as a CR top pick?

    Ofcourse there are German car owners in the CR survey. But a majority of German car owners are turned off by CR survey results and the CR magazine itself, especially when the results contradict their own positive experiences with their cars .

    The minority of German car owners who are disgruntled with their cars will seek CR guidance for a Japanese alternative and are likely to participate in CR surveys.

    Therefore even the German car owners surveyed by CR will have a Japanese bias.

    Is it any wonder why all the top cars are Japanese?
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