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Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,067
    Even though it doesn't sell well, the RL is one of my favorites also. If you recall, the Acura Legend started the whole upscale second channel movement. The RL always fares well at Consumer Reports.

    Part of the luxury car experience is having an upscale dealership that takes care of their customers and Acura does a good job of this. Much better than BMW, Mercedes, or Audi IMO.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • jensadjensad Posts: 388
    I agree with you. I purchased a 08 RL one year ago yesterday and I paid $ 42500 plus tax, which also included the add ons i.e. the $ makers for the dealer, wax, underseal, ect. The inflated sticker price was $ 52000. This was a tech package.

    After several trips to the dealer to try to repair the "chip" in the radio/combo they got me a new radio. Just like the dealer did in 1987 with my then new Acura Legend.

    Service has been great and as usual, I find the dealer does take great care of me. Much better than the Lexus dealer did when I had a rx 330. I changed back to Acura due to problems with the transmission in the rx 300 and my Lexus was an early rx 330.

    Got static over on Lexus site when I posted that but I did not want to take the chance of a bad transmission as I approached the 48 k/4 yrs. warranty so I got back into an excellent RL.

    Good luck and stay safe.

    jensad
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    how things are finished, how they look, their fit, and function.

    It's very hard to define a category by things like how nice the leather feels, or whether the buttons click like an Audi's, or clack like a Chevy's. It's far easier to say that luxury badge + $45-70K price tag + 190-ish inches in length = mid-lux car. Every single car listed on the board qualifies.
  • tonycdtonycd Posts: 223
    It's very hard to define a category by things like how nice the leather feels, or whether the buttons click like an Audi's, or clack like a Chevy's. It's far easier to say that luxury badge + $45-70K price tag + 190-ish inches in length = mid-lux car. Every single car listed on the board qualifies.

    Lots of things worth doing aren't "easy" to do. The logical conclusion of your statement is: a car built absolutely identically to a car on this board is automatically disqualified, if it's too affordable or comes from the "wrong" carmaker.

    Sorry, I'm not buying it, Lexusguy. Or more accurately, if it starts coming in AWD form, quite possibly I AM buying it. The only thing your "incumbency" argument ("every car listed [so far] qualifies") really proves is that the Genesis is indeed the game changer its boosters say it is.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Lots of things worth doing aren't "easy" to do. The logical conclusion of your statement is: a car built absolutely identically to a car on this board is automatically disqualified, if it's too affordable or comes from the "wrong" carmaker.

    If you accept that price doesn't matter, badge doesn't matter, and it doesn't matter if maybe some of the materials used are of average quality, then you must open the floodgates. The Genesis can't be given special treatment, because frankly its no different than any of the other cars in the upper-mainstream segment. You have to let in the Chrysler 300, the Ford Taurus, the Buck Lucerne, the Nissan Maxima, and the Pontiac G8.

    Once you've done that, you've lost the plot of the board. In any case, I think there's a functional limit as to how many cars can be the "focus" of a board like this, if I remember correctly, so this entire argument is probably moot.
  • mandfmandf Posts: 3
    I was thinking of buying a GS300, but when I went to the dealer to test drive one, I found that it wasn't as comfortable as I thought it would be. Is this a case where I was expecting too much because I've read so many good reviews about the vehicle, is it my imagination or are the 300 series just bumpy rides. I felt almost every bump on the road. Does this have something to do with the run flat tires, are they making the vehicle more bumpy. The car was quiet, but bumpy.

    Have other folks had the same experience, or did I simply get a bad vehicle. I read so may great things about comfort and smoothness that I thought the vehicle would glide, but I felt a very shaky bumpy ride. Do I need to go test drive a couple others or is this the way it is?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Have other folks had the same experience, or did I simply get a bad vehicle. I read so may great things about comfort and smoothness that I thought the vehicle would glide, but I felt a very shaky bumpy ride. Do I need to go test drive a couple others or is this the way it is?

    The GS is one of Lexus' sportier offerings. I would suggest test driving an ES350. If a smooth ride is your top priority, you'll probably like that car a lot better.
  • mgourdinmgourdin Posts: 1
    In regards to the auctions, I've actually been to Manheim with a friend whom has his dealer's license, and picked up a great A6 some years ago. I agree though that to do so, you should (which I did not) invest a great deal of time in prep and homework. To this point, I actually have a question. Does anyone know if vehicles picked up at dealer auction, can then be CPO'd? Or are you more or less left with whatever, if any warranty is remaining?
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,067
    Did you mean GS350? Or are you looking at a used GS300?

    I really have never known anyone who did not like the ride of the GS. Maybe not as sporty (rough riding) as some but definitely comfortable. I have not driven one with run flat tires, so yes, definitely find one without those abortions and please let us know how you do.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • gardisgardis Posts: 185
    Have any of you seen the new 2010 Lexus RX? I saw one in person last night at my health spa. I gotta tell you, I'm a BMW enthusiast driving a 328i, thinking about going to a CPO 5 series, but that Lexus was beautiful. Completely redesigned the cockpit. I gotta think that car has to be about $45K new, right? And NO deals. Why should they.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Have any of you seen the new 2010 Lexus RX? I saw one in person last night at my health spa. I gotta tell you, I'm a BMW enthusiast driving a 328i, thinking about going to a CPO 5 series, but that Lexus was beautiful. Completely redesigned the cockpit. I gotta think that car has to be about $45K new, right? And NO deals. Why should they.

    There's been a huge discussion about the new RX in the luxury lounge board over the past week or so. Personally I think it's rather ugly. I'll be looking at the new Audi Q5 soon. After one turn with an X3, my wife has no interest in another.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,067
    I have only seen pics of the Q5 so far but I have to say it is gorgeous. Very few SUV's are really stunning, but this one is. Very clean and simple. I need to get a look at one in real life. Be sure to let us know your thoughts when you drive one.

    The 2010 RX is a tremendous improvement and I think it also looks great and we all know it is bulletproof as far as reliability is concerned. My wife had a 2000 RX and it served us well. I hope they have improved the turning radius. Reliability would be my concern with the Q5.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,111
    A GS bumpy? Man, I've got to test another one. After testing the M's from Infiniti, the A6's (and owning several) from Audi, the GS's from Lexus the E's from Mercedes, 5's from BMW, etc etc etc, I always found the Lexus cars to be without peer in smoothness and damn near silence while underway.

    Run flat tires must really be bad if what I have read just a few posts back is true. Conversely, is it possible that the GS was NOT tested against an M, A6, E and 5 series (under identical conditions, on the same highways, with the same tunes playing, and so on?)

    Lexus may or may not be your cup of tea, so to speak, but my impressions of them are that they put the ooooooo's in smoooooooth. The Germans, by comparison, no matter how hard they try (and that is assuming they actually do try) just can't seem to make their cars, "less firm" feeling.

    Were I looking for the MAX luxury, today, Lexus would have to be at the top of the list.

    But who am I to talk, I just off loaded a current gen A6 (C6) for the latest gen A4 (B8) with 19 x 35 x 255 MAX perf tires, sport suspension, sport seats, and ADS -- put this dude in dynamic mode and you are in Princess & the Pea Mode.

    In the class of cars in this group, I still maintain the Lexus is the, er, creamy-est of the crop (and I'd imagine that is even WITH those dang run flats.)

    Here is my only come back: are you sure the shippling "blocks" had been removed from the springs? Had the thing been PDR'd?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I hope they have improved the turning radius. Reliability would be my concern with the Q5.

    That's the thing my wife liked least about her '01 RX. They fixed that issue back in '04 with the RX330, it's turning circle shrank to 37ft. from over 41. I would assume that the latest RX has a similarly reasonable turning circle.

    The Q5 seems good enough to take a chance on the reliability issue. I've had no problems to date with my S6, and we have a decent Audi shop in the area. Since it borrows most of its components from the A4, I think it should hold up well, at least over the lease period.
  • I have been thinking about getting a new car, and these three are the finalists:
    Jaguar XF Premium Luxury
    Infiniti M45
    Audi A6 3.0T

    All are about the same price when you factor in Technology or Prestige Packages. Any thoughts on hard comparisons between the three? I live in San Jose, so the Quattro of the Audi will not necessarily be a deciding factor.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I have been thinking about getting a new car, and these three are the finalists:
    Jaguar XF Premium Luxury
    Infiniti M45
    Audi A6 3.0T


    You have great taste! All are excellent choices. The Infiniti M is likely to be the most reliable, but it is not as refined as the Jag or Audi, and you'll notice the lack of a sixth gear on the highway. The Jag being the newest design has a few tech features that the Audi lacks and offers the trick interior, but I've heard there have been some significant quality/reliability issues.

    Audi's new 3.0T is a superb engine. I would suggest getting the 19" Sport Package as well, as I find that the A6 with the standard suspension is a bit on the dull side. Last year I was down to the XF SC and the Audi S6, and I went with the Audi, in part because I already own a Jag, and in part because I prefer the styling and interior of the Audi.
  • bmlexusbmlexus Posts: 755
    have only seen pics of the Q5 so far but I have to say it is gorgeous. Very few SUV's are really stunning, but this one is. Very clean and simple. I need to get a look at one in real life. Be sure to let us know your thoughts when you drive one.

    The 2010 RX is a tremendous improvement and I think it also looks great and we all know it is bulletproof as far as reliability is concerned. My wife had a 2000 RX and it served us well. I hope they have improved the turning radius. Reliability would be my concern with the Q5.


    Hello Houndi,

    How are things? long time no talk.

    I've seen the Q5 in person last night, it's very good looking, but to small for my liking, I think ladies will love the styling as well the size, I do to, but want a bigger car.

    It has very nice lines, very simple, yet very good looking. The one I saw was a silver1.

    I see that you're already concerned about reliability, now I am use to hear about German reliability troubles in the long run.

    I been waiting for a while to test the RX.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,067
    Hi bmlexus, I'm doing well. Good to hear from you.

    I see you still haven't pulled the trigger on anything yet. You are very patient. Did you ever look at or drive the Genesis? How about the new coupe? That sounds like a great car for a young man like you. Keep me posted.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,067
    They are all good choices but of those 3 my pick would be the M. If these are the finalists, I am curious what else you checked out. How about the new A4? From your name it appears you may be an Acura fan. Did you look at or consider the RL or the TL?

    Also, if I was seriously looking, I would drive the Genesis just to see what all the fuss is about. Good luck.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • Thanks for your suggestion.

    I bought one of the very first Acura Vigors to reach America back in 1991, and I had it for 16 years. I loved that car! I am disappointed by the styling direction that the new Acuras have taken, and am not really turned on by either TL or RL.

    I currently own a 1999 A4 2.8 Quattro and 1998 Jaguar XK8 Convertible. I did take a look at the new A4 but I felt much more comfortable with the A6. I have not gone to look at Genesis yet, but maybe I will take my Hyundai-loving friend over to see it.
  • Thanks for the suggestion Lexusguy. The Jag and especially the Audi have much better fuel economy numbers than M45 certainly in part due to the extra gear. Interestingly the Infiniti dealer did not have a 2009 M35 (with the new engine and 7-speed transmission) that he could find for me to test drive to compare with the M45. They had lots of 2008 models though.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,067
    I did not know that the new M35 had a new engine and a 7 speed trans. If I were you I would definitely check it out in relation to the M45.

    Good luck, and as we all know a good part of the fun of a new car is the chase !!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • For 2009 both M35 and M35x got the 3.5L from G35 (303hp / 268 lb-ft) but only M35 got the 7-speed AT which boosted fuel economy by a little. M45 got no improvements in that category at all. M35 still has a less powerful engine than what is now in the G37 (328hp / 269 lb-ft).
  • bocatripbocatrip Posts: 194
    Although I also enjoy Audis, my personal decision would be based on the dealer experience for service. That being said, it's always hands down for the Infiniti or in most cases the Asian makes over the European or Mercedes, Audi, Bmw vs Lexus, Infiniti, Acura. After owning a Bmw, I always felt like I was worked over by Mike Tyson after taking my car in for service.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Thanks for the suggestion Lexusguy.

    Sure. How is your XK holding up? I had a '98 XK8 convertible myself several years back, sold it after it starting developing electrical problems for a '00 XKR, which I kept for quite awhile. I currently have an '07 XK convertible.

    I'm generally a fan of Infiniti products, and I'm looking forward to testing the next generation M37 and M50, which will likely correct the issues that the current car has. The 7-speed should take care of the high revs at cruising speed, but the car still lacks that last degree of smoothness that you get with the Audi and Jag, and the interior materials and attention to detail on the inside aren't quite there yet.

    The XF's interior tricks are neat, but the "vodka bar" lighting is not as sophisticated or soothing as the Audi's classic red glow. The center stack buttons are also a bit flimsy. The Jag's biggest problem though is the engine, it just doesn't make sense to get the 4.2 when the new 5.0 V8 will soon replace it.

    I think you'll be bored by the Genesis, it's more of a cut-price Lexus LS than anything close to a sport sedan.
  • bmlexusbmlexus Posts: 755
    The 2010 RX is a tremendous improvement and I think it also looks great and we all know it is bulletproof as far as reliability is concerned

    Thats what you get with Lexus, peace of mind.

    Reliability would be my concern with the Q5.

    Maybe I've read to many negative reviews about European cars, I am so scared to think that what if my new car will break down in its first week :cry: :blush:
  • bmlexusbmlexus Posts: 755
    Hi bmlexus, I'm doing well. Good to hear from you.

    I see you still haven't pulled the trigger on anything yet. You are very patient. Did you ever look at or drive the Genesis? How about the new coupe? That sounds like a great car for a young man like you. Keep me posted


    No, I haven't made my decision yet. I am very patient, especially after reading so many different types of reviews.

    No, I never looked at the Genesis or the coupe, I've been looking for an suv, I like the idea of a high driving position for quite a while.

    But I do not like the idea of a high driving position in a boxy suv, which most of the majority prefer.

    Looked at the infiniti fx, but don't like the nissan engine.

    Been looking at the new RX, and I am very well aware that its a ladies car.

    The truth is, all this time I've only been interested in the X6, which the majority of posters hate.

    Thats the only new car I've tested and liked, but the reviews I've read, and personal experience from my friends which proves that its a very bad choice, especially in the reliability department which is my major concern.

    1more thing, 50% value of all European cars disappear within 2 years.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,067
    1more thing, 50% value of all European cars disappear within 2 years.

    Luxury Japanese cars are not much better as far as depreciation is concerned. That is one reason that I usually buy 2 to 3 year old LS's. You basically get a great luxury car with a great factory warranty. All you miss out on is the big hit on depreciation !!

    That said, I don't believe you should ever buy a car based solely on what makes economic sense. First you have to really want the car for what it is, then you work on the economics. Also don't buy what someone else thinks you should buy. You will always know what you want. :)

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • I bought my 1998 XK Convertible used in 2005, so it is just now 4 years in my hands. The only real problem I have had is with coolant leaks. It seems that every year a new hose starts leaking. I swear I must have had them all replaced by now, but the Coolant Level Low light has come on again, and I have had to put in a bit of distilled water to turn it off. Next oil change in a month or so will probably have another hose replacement on the bill.

    The only electrical problem I have had was the passenger seat controls, there was a wire in the seat getting pinched. Hard to find, but they fixed it. Now if only people would stop kicking the seat control module when they get in!

    Overall this has been a good car, and well worth the investment in terms of return on driving pleasure and overall interest. Everyone tells me it looks like a new car (helped obviously by its classic good looks and the longevity of the platform).
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The only electrical problem I have had was the passenger seat controls, there was a wire in the seat getting pinched. Hard to find, but they fixed it.

    Hah! I had the same issue, except with the driver's seat controls. I only found out when my wife attempted to drive the car, and couldn't move the seat forward.
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