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Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • ghstudioghstudio Posts: 952
    Why doesn't the Mercedes C class get compared to the TL/M/etc?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Why doesn't the Mercedes C class get compared to the TL/M/etc?

    The C Class belongs on the entry level luxury sedans board - along with the TL, 3, A4, G37, etc.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,088
    Audi may not be your cup of tea; however, Audis generally and typically receive virtually universal praise for having the best interiors, even if the review or reviewer ends up not being impressed by the overall car.

    This is not to suggest that the Japanese or other makers from other countries have poorly designed interiors, etc -- but Audi interiors and switchgear are second to none according to pedestrians like us and the pros from virtually every corner of the globe.

    Solid and retro? My dad had a Hudson and a few Chryco cars over the years -- my 2009 Audi interior is anything but retro -- but, it is solid, if that means "substantive."
  • shmangshmang Posts: 297
    By retro, I mean classic. Did I mention heritage in my post. The interior for Audi is very nice - especially the new ones (Those from 2006, 2007 are not that impressive, especially w/o navigation system).

    But, that does not mean the interior of Infiniti or Acura is cheesy. They are modern, fashion with distinct style that is targeting younger people, while Audi and MB, BMW are targeting more towards 40+ people (except those low end sporty models - we are talking about luxury performance sedan here).

    So, don't get me wrong. I am not saying one is better than the other, it is just targeting different market group.
  • james27james27 Posts: 433
    I've searched the specs of most cars in this category, and none of them have much more headroom, if any, than many mid-range cars. The Infiniti M-series has 39.7". The only other one with more (that I've found) is the Genesis, and then only if you can buy it without the sunroof. That also means you don't get many of the neat options. I'm slightly over 38", from seat to top of my head (not counting any hair that sticks up!), The Infiniti was the only car I found when I was looking where I could get comfortable without my head or hair hitting the roof. My last car was an Audi A6 when you could order it without a sunroof. Why do the manufacturers make the sunroof mandatory? It causes close to 3" loss of headroom (on the Audi it was 2.85").

    Anyway, the new Mercedes E series states 39.1", which might work. May try one of those, but want to wait for the 4-matic version, if I was to go that way. Anyone know if the diesel version due next year will be offered with 4-matic? Rear-wheel drive up a snowy driveway in NH is no fun, even with snow tires...
  • shmangshmang Posts: 297
    Wow, 38". How tall are you - 6' 6" or more?

    Maybe some SUV like QX56, LX470, Q7 will be more comfortable then.
  • james27james27 Posts: 433
    Only about 6'3", but long torso. Typical SUV just raises the seat...same issues with headroom. Plus, have no need or desire for a gas hog with marginal handling. Now, if the manufacturers would only make their cars available without sunroofs (which I only use to vent for a short while after sitting in the sun all day), the choices would be much better. Cd tends to penalize them for tall cars. If manufacturers weren't so worried about liability, if the gas and brake pedals were closer to the same height, you could sit closer and lean the seat back further. My first new car was a Citroen ID19. Must have had 5" of headroom in that car and it had the most comfortable seat of any car I've owned. All three pedals, gas, brake, clutch were at the same height so you could easily move from one pedal to the other without having to lift, and thus sit further back, or lower to clear the steeringwheel. But, that was nearly 40-years ago...
  • james27james27 Posts: 433
    Just for info, the new Mercedes E-class as sold in the USA always comes with a sunroof and has 39.1" of headroom. In Europe, you can buy it without the sunroof, and it has 41.25" of headroom in front. Quite a big difference, and more than enough for a whole new group of people to feel comfortable in. For a few years, Audi sold the A6 without a sunroof - it was part of all packages, so if you wanted it with any of the nice extras, you always had to lose the headroom. While we'll probably never see the days of a long list of individual options again, losing this really hurts. It might be easier for the dealers, but for people willing to wait to special order, I don't see the big deal, and a big benefit...you'd end up with a truly individual car that actually met your needs.
  • carlupicarlupi Posts: 52
    As a tall person I have been complaining about the sunroof issue for years only to see this situation become worse as most manufacturers now force the sunroof into the most desired options packages. For a tall person the alternatives are very limited: Buy a well equipped car with a sunroof you don't want and hunch down into the seat; or, buy a plain vanilla car without the sunroof and any of the other options you really wanted.

    My proposal to help tall and short people alike: Make sunroofs a separate stand alone option always; and make more cars with optional telescopic steering wheel and adjustable pedals. With these three options people of practically all heights should be able to find a car that fits comfortably.
  • tonycdtonycd Posts: 223
    Carlupi, I couldn't agree more with your sunroof comment. As a guy who wants his next sedan to have the luxuries, I'm very frustrated by this -- and although I'm long-waisted, I'm only 6' 2". This shouldn't happen.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,673
    Don't forget us not-so-tall people, too...while headroom is rarely an issue for me at 5'3", sitting on top of the steering wheel is...adjustable pedals (in both of my vehicles, 2004 Crown Vic and 2004 Dodge Ram 1500) make each vehicle easy to drive and I don't have to move the seat up so that my chest is on the dashboard...
  • james27james27 Posts: 433
    Well, Mercedes posted the US configuration for the new E-class, and no joy. It appears that it comes only with a sunroof. But, you get your choice of a 'normal' one or a humungous one. AND, there's bottom of the industry headroom for this class (if their spec is right) at 37.2". Most in this class have around 38" or more. The only one (other than a stripped Genesis, which some would not consider in this group) that I fit in is the M-series. There's no competition. This is sad. The M's steering is fussy and it is noisey. It's an okay car, but not great. After a long drive, the sound level puts you on edge. The A6 is much quieter and tracks like a tank.

    Come on, manufacturers...people are getting taller, not shorter.

    The problem I think is that Audi, Mercedes, BMW, etc. are marketed here as luxury cars, and they have all agreed that that must contain certain things - a sunroof is one of them. As opposed to their home market where you can buy the car without all of the fancy bits, they don't think it is viable here and would dilute their status in the high end. Nobody wants a basic, stripped car sold here for many thousands less that looks the same from the outside. Those that spent $50-80K would lose 'status' if somebody drove up in the same model that cost $35-40K.

    Same herd mentality that makes everyone slow down to gawk at an accident.

    Here's hoping that the next round of new models may offer some other choices.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Here's hoping that the next round of new models may offer some other choices.

    I wonder if one of those new "tallboy" sedan/wagon things would work for you - the new 5 GT or the Acura ZDX.
  • james27james27 Posts: 433
    Those tall hulks have the same problem...raise the road clearance, raise the seat height, throw in a sunroof, and many have even less. Tried the A5. Went in because the Audi add said there was like 40" of headroom in the new A4...well, maybe if you could buy it without the sunroof, but you can't.
  • james27james27 Posts: 433
    The full MBUSA brochure for the 2010 E-class is now on their website: front headroom listed is 37.9". If you go to the UK website (easiest to read since it's in English), the list the front headroom as 41.2" (which, must be without a sunroof - they don't list a separate number for those that do have one - at least that I found).

    Very dissapointing. I may still go and sit in one, but I'm not expecting good things.
  • Tall people are ignored more and more in modern cars. It seems the seats are getting lower and HARDER. I'm 6-feet tall (w/long legs) and the seats don't go back far enough in the BMW 5, Lexus LS or GS, Infinity G (an extremely tight fit), Audi A6, or Acura TL. And the Lexus LS seats are too hard.

    The new Benz E-class seats are so low I feel like I am right on the floor with my knees unbent (although the seat goes back far). The E-class seats themselves feel fine, and would be great higher up.

    The Infinity M35 and Acura RL have just enough room but the seats are HARD,
    especially under the thighs.
    And in the top cars like the BMW 7 or Audi A8, the seats have weird, hard, thigh supports. (The BMW 7 has thigh support that extends & leaves an empty gap right under my knees; it's awful if you use it at all for long legs.)
    The Benz S-class seats also are too low for me; not as low as the E-class,
    but still won't tilt up enough in front, making it very annoying. The S-class seats themselves are nicely padded.
    The best feeling and positioned seats are in the Cadillac DTS (honest) and the Volvo S80 IMHO (but both of those have small footwells for tall people, especially for the left foot).
    So, no place for me yet. (I didn't have these problems in cars 10 years ago. I think the new cars are designed for smaller drivers. I think this started with Saturn,
    which I thought was the world's most uncomfortable car.)
    Thanks for reading.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,593
    Out of curiosity have you tried sitting in the new generation Taurus? It might fit you the best even though it may not be your dream car.
  • james27james27 Posts: 433
    The spec on the Taurus has 39" - they don't list what it is with a sunroof, you often lose at least 2". The good thing is it appears you can get it without a sunroof on all models except the SHO, which has it as part of most of the options packages. Maybe worth a try, but my hair rubs on the roof now on a bad hair day, and my M35 has 39.7". Over 41" would allow flexibility on adjusting the seat so I wouldn't always have to sit on the floor. Also, moving the seat up some gives more foot room for those behind (not that I carry passengers back there often). I'm sort of lusting after the 32mpg of the diesel and over 600-miles on a tank during a trip, too. If I really wanted to go in a different path, the Nissan Cube (?) has over 42", if I remember. I just prefer something a little more geared towards quiet comfort and a bit more power.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    So, no place for me yet. (I didn't have these problems in cars 10 years ago. I think the new cars are designed for smaller drivers. I think this started with Saturn,
    which I thought was the world's most uncomfortable car.)


    How about any of the big luxury coupes (those few that are left)? It's been awhile since I've driven one, but from what I can remember all of the big coupes like the MB CL have absolutely massive amounts of legroom for the driver, much more than any sedan I've ever driven. Headroom might be a problem though.

    Unfortunately, when Ford Restyled the Taurus this year they cut the roof line by a few inches to make the car look sleeker, taking away those inches in headroom, of course.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,530
    Looks like next year there will be
    a new M - an M56, from Infiniti.
    Interesting...
    - Ray
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Looks like next year there will be
    a new M - an M56, from Infiniti.
    Interesting...


    Indeed, where did you hear that? The next M is definitely coming soon, but there was talk about no V8 at all this time, with the options instead being M37 and some sort of M hybrid. A new M50 would be logical enough, but M56 implies the use of Nissan's truck engine, which makes no sense in a luxury car.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,530
    http://www.nissannews.com/newsrelease.do?id=836&mid=1

    08.14.2009 , Pebble Beach, Calif.
    2011 Infiniti M Makes Virtual Debut at Concours d’Elegance

    Infiniti today provided an advanced look at the all-new 2011 Infiniti M performance luxury sedan at the 59th Annual Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance. This is the third generation of Infiniti’s popular M and the first to be sold across all of Infiniti’s 32 markets around the world, including Western Europe.

    Like the current Infiniti M, the next-generation design will be offered with V8 and V6 engines. The 2011 M models will be designated the Infiniti M56 and Infiniti M37 respectively, reflecting their more powerful, larger displacement engines. The M56 V8 is expected to offer more than 400 horsepower. For Western Europe, the M56 will be replaced by a V6 performance diesel.

    The 2011 Infiniti M also features a completely redesigned body, with authentic sports sedan proportions and evocative new styling with a low front end and deeply sculpted fenders inspired by the Infiniti Essence concept car. The new M interior promises to be pure Infiniti, highlighted by the use of innovative materials, an advanced climate control system, superior audio and an enhanced quality feel. Despite improved performance from the new engine lineup, fuel consumption will be reduced.

    In addition, the 2011 M will continue Infiniti’s technology innovation leadership with a blind spot intervention system. This industry-first system is designed to help alert the driver if another vehicle is detected in an adjacent lane during an intended lane change, and then help assist the driver in returning the vehicle toward the center of the original lane of travel.

    The 2011 Infiniti M, which is scheduled to go on sale across the world starting from spring 2010, was revealed through a unique “video mapping” process – in which a “virtual M” was created on a 3D form. It is the world’s first “virtual only” (no physical vehicle) automotive application of this cutting-edge technology. The 2011 Infiniti M will make its official public debut later this year.
  • barryendbarryend Posts: 121
    The new M is a beauty. I hope they cured the bad steering, bad ride, noise and trammeling issue. My 2006 M35X was a horrible ride. Love my 2009 Audi A4 with sports package.
  • rbirns1rbirns1 Posts: 219
    What about rear seat headroom? I'm 6-2 and usually have no problem with driver seat headroom. I have a teenage son who is already near 6-4, on his way to 6-6+. Just tested a CTS (with sunroof) yesterday and he was already up to the headliner in the back seat. Also tested the 2010 SRX (dealer had one just for the afternoon) and it had slightly more more headroom (about an inch). My current Audi Q7 has plenty of headroom except for third row of course. Anyway, which luxury sedans (or crossovers) should I be considering?
  • james27james27 Posts: 433
    Lots of luck! Since the public seems to think a sunroof is required on that type of vehicle, and they absorb 2-3" or more of headroom, you'll have problems. I'm also 6'2", but long-waisted. I didn't search much in SUV or cross-overs, but the only sedan in that class that had decent headroom was the M. Most of the SUV and cross-overs just used taller seats, and with the sunroofs, they weren't any better (at least in those I looked at - I prefer a sedan). The only car with more headroom than the M is the Genesis, and then only if you buy a stripper without the sunroof. All of the neat packages and the V-8 come with a sunroof.

    I contacted the MB dealer, and they corporate, to see if they would offer the new E-class in the USA without a sunroof (they used to, and still do anywhere else in the world, but not here). With the sunroof, it's 37.9", without, it's 41.3", a huge difference! I'm still waiting for an answer - it's been about a month. Still hoping.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,530
    Though I realize that the BMW 3 does not rise to the level of
    "Luxury" Performance Sedan [ by definition, here ]
    I was interested to see that the 2010 BMW 328, apparently both
    Coupe & Sedan now do NOT have the sunroof \ moonroof
    as standard - it is now a $1,050 option.
    PERHAPS this is the start of a trend?
    - Ray
    Seeing no reason for this NOT to be optional
    in the US of A....
  • shmangshmang Posts: 297
    Well, BMW 328 is a very popular model and it can offer that. But, the sales volume of most (if not all) luxury performance cars are not large enough to justify offering both. As a result, they just opt for the most popular choice - with sunroof as standard.
  • Forget where I read it, but I think the 2010 E has a sunroof that goes over the top rather than into it. However, that could just be for the coupe with the "panoramic" sunrrof.
  • finally traded in my 07 Infiniti M35X and got a 2010 MB E class 4matic, and what a difference...
    This is a true luxury car with exceptional ride and comfort, everything is high quality and it looks great inside and out especially with AMG wheels.
    The M was more sporty but I never liked the ride and especially hated the engine noise. I also had issues with tramlining and had the tires replaced with only 5000 miles on them, but that is all over now and I am enjoying my new ride.
  • Go on your own blog.You are no longer one of us.See Ya!
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