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Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • bornoborno Posts: 77
    A little skeptical of your situation. Obviously things can break here and there, that doesn't kill the benefits of owning. Although I agree, I'd lease new over buying new any day. I usually buy a year or two old,(certified) and keep it over 6-7 years. That's hard now given the great new technology that keeps coming in this newly competitive industry!.

    So, I need a car asap; mine was totalled. Off duty cop turned into my line, no injuries, his fault. Got $7.5K for my 00 A6,2.7TQ,MT. Loved it. It was only worth 2.5K on trade cause of bad cats.

    I'm between a 08 A6 4.2, it has sport suspension(a must), and is certified. Stickered around $64K, and asking $43K, a decent discount from sticker, actually saw two similar cars both with low 20K miles on them.

    I am also a good lease candidate, though I've never leased B4. (low annual miles, business write off, take car of my cars, like newest tech toys) So my two questions:

    Lease new, and have a decision to make in 39 month or buy used and keep long term?
    If I leased new I'd go with the 3.0T, maybe chip it after the lease if I buy it out, or the used 4.2?, great natural engine pretty good discounts on cars, but older tech

    HELP.......thanks in advance for ideas suggestions or comments
    Still love the cayenne gts.stick, but have finally come to my senses...lol
  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,286
    The A4 leases better than the A6 and will cost you a lot less. The size difference is not all that much either. If you don't get too heavy on the options, you can even buy with a 4 year loan to match the warranty. Then trade it in. Just stick with the quattro premium[ not the premium plus or prestige]. -- money factor is very good til 3/1.
  • Before getting a '10 E350, I test drove three different Genesis'. Very disappointed in the ride and it just did not look as good inside when compared to Infiniti, Acura, M-B and Lexus. Outside, looked liked they copied too many other makes.
    Was driving an Azera at the time and could have gotten the Genesis at actual dealer cost through a special HMA program. Just couldn't convince myself saving money was worth it-and that is Genesis' only advantage. As Jerry Seinfeld said: "You can't drive money."
    Did get a very good deal from MBUSA and the dealer on the E350.
    Also, I think Hyundai is rushing cars into production too fast and then ignoring the ones already on the market, e.g. Azera, Vera Cruz, etc.
    Much more pleased with the E350. Cost more and maintenance witll be more? Definitely, but well worth it in my book.
    :)
  • The A4 Premium is a strippie -- and really would not even be part of the LPS crowd. I traded in a loaded $53K+ 2005 A6 for a more loaded $49K 2009 A4 Prestige. The wheelbase of the B8 A4 is over 110" -- a hair, a thin hair, shorter than the A6's. The A6, however was slightly wider than the new gen A4 and overall length of the A4 is shorter than the C6 gen A6.

    The interior of the A4 is 98% A6 (especially when the A4 has been equipped with both the sport package and the wood package.) But the 2% difference is, for me having had over 36 months living with the A6, noticeable. The interior lighting of the A6 is, for instance, one place where the A6 shows even greater attention to details that separate the near-luxury PS from the LPS class.

    Then, I do have the ADS and 19" sport package on my A4 and it is a totally different performing drive -- the A6 seems, in comparison, almost, er, Buick-like (almost).

    Were I again looking in the LPS class (and at $49K, the A4 qualifies me to cross shop, I would think); I would, were I wanting to shave costs, look only at the A4 with the Prestige package and several option boxes checked off.

    The Premium A4 seems completely unqualified to even be considered when one is shopping LPS. I have been loaned Premium and even Premium Plus A4's when mine is in for service -- the differences from Premium to Prestige are hard to overlook -- but Prestige does command quite the hmm, "premium" price.

    The new M37X with the technology package is being advertised locally here in River City (lease) for something like $499 or $549 per month, which would be worth a look-see if you wanted to have a car that has the creds to actually be in the LPS class.

    The A4 Prestige is, to repeat, a near-LPS offering, but, at this point, it really is not an LPS car. If you want LPS, you need to be in the cars discussed in this forum. Neither the Genesis or Audi A4 are anything but upper-middle class (not that that is a bad thing.)

    For me, going from the 2005 A6 to the 2009 A4 was kind-of a lateral move. So, perhaps you can, if you say it fast enough, argue that the current crop of near-LPS offerings is "about on par" with a four-year old LPS model from Europe, Japan, England or America.
  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,286
    enjoyed your post. You're definitely someone who appreciates luxury. Amazing the range in price that audi-bmw have on the same model. Have you looked at the 2010 Jaguar XF. Don't think they lease very well but the cabin and seats are VERY nice-- high end. Reportedly a real rush behind the wheel. If I could justify $800 per month, would definitly at least test drive. Might be able to do a bit better on the lease with some hard work. The bmw X6 would work for me -- may look for a deal on a loaner with a big discount.
  • Back to back, test the X6 and X5 models. They seem very similar, but the X6 commands a double take when you look at the sticker.

    The X6 is a looker, to be sure -- but where/how is all that extra money justified?

    I read an article that said, test the X6 then test a ZDX. Now, the schnoz of the Acura, well, gulp, it will take some getting used to; but here in Cincinnati, at least one dealer (on the dark colored Acuras) is attempting to do a nose job on the new models by paiting the "big nose" the body color -- I saw one recently in burgundy with the silver nose piece also in burgundy and it didn't look too bad.

    In any case the article claimed that the ZDX was what BMW should have done in the first place. Dunno about that, but if in your neck of the woods Acuras are discounted (as they seem to be here) and BMW X6's are not, well, maybe that would be something to consider.

    Me? Well, I'd wait for the upcoming X5 twin-turbo inline 6 version and fughetaboud the X6.

    On the subject of the Jaguar, interesting read in Motor Trend -- it certainly is the quietest of the LPS crowd, so they say.

    Drive it like you live! :shades:
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Have you looked at the 2010 Jaguar XF. Don't think they lease very well but the cabin and seats are VERY nice-- high end.

    The standard XF is not that great. The carry over 4.2L engine isn't any faster than an A6 3.0T or 535i, and the suspension is too soft to be much fun. You really need the supercharged car which has the adaptive suspension, and that starts at $68K. I'm also not sure that Jag has worked out the myriad of quality control issues yet.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The X6 is a looker, to be sure -- but where/how is all that extra money justified?

    Looker? Looks like something, that's for sure. BMW makes absolutely no attempt to justify the price. The X6 is just a profit machine, for the eight people out there who think they need a 3 ton coupe on stilts that will be as good off road as a Prius, and will pay anything for it.
  • If you go with X6 make sure you do a use case test drive

    Last month a vendor took us out for lunch in his X6
    Extremely difficult to get in/out of the rear seats. The vehicle had running board.
    The seats are set way inside.... you need LONG legs to reach out to the ground below.
    If you do have LONG legs then there is no Leg room in the back
    Very claustrophobic. Very uncomfortable.

    I fail to understand the purpose.... make be it makes a statement that I do not understand.
  • ghstudioghstudio Posts: 943
    but if you step up just a little to the Jaguar XF premium with the 5.0L V8 naturally aspirated engine with 385hp, it becomes a much different and far more interesting car.
  • intersting conversation. for me it's the MB 350 sedan. the XF has some sex appeal but after a few years will there be anything left except for high maintenence?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,076
    edited February 2010
    If you care at all about reviews, the three cars to consider are the Audi A6, the BMW 535 and the Mercedes E350. A few months ago the Audi was the top dog according to Car and Driver, this time the Bimmer comes in first and pushes the Audi to Avis according to Motor Trend.

    The three Germans seem, at this point in history, to be the ones to consider in this class -- everyone else (so it would seem they say) are just wannabes.

    I wouldn't be unhappy with any of these three.

    I've not driven the MB, but having driven the other two, I can see why they always finish as medal winners.

    And, BTW, I'm glad someone picked up on my comment that the X6 is a looker.

    I could also have said, "I've never seen anything like it," with equal sincerity.

    I did test drive one, though, and it was, once I got into it, a blast to drive.

    I hate to have to feed it though.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419

    The three Germans seem, at this point in history, to be the ones to consider in this class -- everyone else (so it would seem they say) are just wannabes.


    In the rest of the world that's true, but in the US market at least the A6 never seems to get much respect. I'm not sure why, but BMW and Mercedes always outsell it 3 or 4 to 1, while the A6 is forced to fight it out with Lexus and Infiniti.

    It may be that the A6 has really only been a serious contender since the '98 C5 car and Audi just needs more time, although the GS has been around for much longer and its sales have always sucked. I'm not sure why, but BMW and Mercedes have always absolutely dominated this segment, even when the Es have been mediocre they still just march off the sales floor.

    I'm curious to see if the C7 will turn things around or if the A6 will remain a distant third here, despite its best seller status in the rest of the world.
  • I agree with your post lexusguy, my point, well, was not MY point. I was remarking on C&D and Motor Trend ranking the A6 (even tho it be long in the tooth) either number one or number two, in one case besting the previous "king for life" BMW.

    Audi, overall, is on a tear -- and they, finally, have had the, er, intestinal fortitude to give it back to BMW in their recent Olympic TV spots.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    edited February 2010
    I agree with your post lexusguy, my point, well, was not MY point. I was remarking on C&D and Motor Trend ranking the A6 (even tho it be long in the tooth) either number one or number two, in one case besting the previous "king for life" BMW.

    The C6 gen A6 wasn't always such a high-ranker though. If I recall correctly, the old 3.2 and 4.2 usually scored around mid-pack in comparisons from a couple of years ago. The new 3.0T engine and the revised suspension seem to have really turned things around for the A6, as its doing better now at the end of its life than it ever has.

    With the move to the new platform, Drive Select, and the latest Quattro system, it's possible that the next A6 could stay on top. At least from the early reports I've seen, the F10 5 series is not really any kind of leap forward.

    I definitely agree that Audi is on a tear, although sometimes I wish Audi would treat the US a little more like the EU market. Going to audi.co.uk and seeing all the models and options that they get - and we don't - can be depressing.
  • bornoborno Posts: 77
    edited February 2010
    can u elaborate on the, 'revised suspension + new quattro system' please.
    Model year, and change details would be helpful.
  • At least from the early reports I've seen, the F10 5 series is not really any kind of leap forward.

    Out of curiosity, was wondering what would be needed to be a leap forward?

    I've been reading about the F 10 with pro BMW blinders on, but a couple of things have caught my attention so far- a more powerful and torquey V-8, 8 speed auto, new front suspension, Adaptive Drive, and nicer interior.

    Probably the most radical change is it has real cupholders! :)

    Bruce
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,076
    edited February 2010
    There have been MANY MANY little running changes/improvements to the C6 since it was brought out in 2004 (2005 MY, US).

    Here's what I think was meant, and it is relevant only to the 2009 and 2010 MY versions.

    A6 could be had with a 3.0TFSI (Supercharged) 300HP engine coupled to a revised software (faster, smoother, shifts) 6 speed tiptronic.

    The quattro (TorSen) system, remains active, as opposed to reactive, but the "at rest" torque bias was shifted from 50 50 (front/rear) to 40 60 f/r bias, giving the car a bit less reason to understeer, even though little if anything was done to better balance the weight distribution f/r.

    Furthermore, the suspension was, what would be a good word?, "tuned" to better work with the newfound power and perhaps even create and enhance the perception of [better, more equal] balance; that is, the suspension components were tuned to better counteract the nose heaviness of the A6, further mitigating the understeering tendancies of the engine being ahead of the front axle. As far as I know nothing substantial was done to actually make the car have better f/r weight distribution.

    We don't get the real Audi weight balancing improvements currently enjoyed in the A4 until the C7 A6 debuts.

    You can read the comparison reports from Car and Driver and Motor Trend about the last gasp of the C6 A6 platform -- in these articles, there is certainly some better prose that describes the improvements that the supercharger, new TorSen adaptation and suspension tweaks imbued on an already pretty good performing car.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    can u elaborate on the, 'revised suspension + new quattro system' please.

    I don't know that much about it, just that the sport suspension has been re-tuned a bit from the old S-line/sport suspension settings. The S6 has its own setup, and I don't think that changed with the '09 restyle.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419

    Out of curiosity, was wondering what would be needed to be a leap forward?


    Well, there doesn't seem to be anything amazing that the F10 does that the E60 doesn't do. There's plenty of new technology sure, but I haven't heard that the F10 is somehow amazingly better to drive. It's heavier, and thanks to improved engines its not any slower.

    On the other hand, the change from the B7 to the B8 A4 was a leap forward, particularly with the S4. The A6 is getting basically the same changes. It'll win easily against the E350, and there's a good chance that it could win against the new 5 as well.
  • bornoborno Posts: 77
    FINALLY, after a looooong search, I think I found her!
    Thanks for all the help!!!

    '07 Audi S6 with 34K, three year old, certified with audi care, has brand new set of winter snows and rims, white with black interior, with carbon fiber inlays, tech pkg., and warm package(rare, it replaces the glass moonroof with solar panels that operate fans to change the air in the car when its parked.

    the only options it doesn't have are adaptive cruise(regular cruise will b ok, wont use it much any way), driver side leather dash(nice but oh well), and the silver optioned head liner(this I'd like and may look into), also will need the i pod interface installed(expensive, any ideas?, hear $1k, from one dealer, $2K from another, but i will get it factory oem.

    Car was sold and serviced buy selling dealer, who also capped my shipping costs at $500. 25 year audi salesman, previous owner trade it and an older porsche for a new S5 cab, my other dream car. Also getting 1.9% from audi for 24 months!

    Pretty psyched!, will give price details later, may purchase the cpo audi care which covers additional 2 services. Any other ideas?? This is a beast of a car!

    lexusguy was right, more S6s than 4.2, and only $1-2K more than the '08 4.2!

    THANK U!
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I would suggest not double posting in multiple forums, as it can disrupt the normal flow of conversation.
  • Hi,

    I bought 2009 E350 and has 3K miles on it. When my wife was driving vehicle, suddenly wheel rim burst and lost air. I checked tire and was not damaged from outside or didn't see any stress where rim was damaged.

    I believe that this is bad quality of AMG wheel but Dealers are not ready to accept.

    See video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si2OuQeVbbc

    Few questions:
    1) Why MB always ask you to buy wheel and tire warranty for AMG wheels?
    2) I have seen several post where people has described about the chip, crack in the wheel.
    3) They always denies for warranty with outside force (including pot holes). How many pot holes in this country on the road and have you face any rim damage by pot holes on another vehicle?

    I am IT person and this is simple logic that AMG low profile wheel are not designed properly to handle impact of small outside force.

    We are paying high for vehicle with priority of safety for family members. But if this happens while you drive, your family could get hurt.

    I have filed complain in NHTSA. I wanted to hear about your opinion or if you have faced this kind of issue in the past.

    Thanks,
    AD
  • linhtwulinhtwu Posts: 15
    Anyone out there that has owned a BMW 7 series (E38/2001 or older) and now driving an MX45x? I live in Cleveland where we get lots of snow and need to think about a replacement for my 740. My "winter" vehicle" was a lease and recently turned in. Wife wants to go down to two cars so I figure MX45x may fit my needs.

    Would like to know how the MX45 compares to the 7 series. No pre-owned MX45's in area for sale currently or else I would go test drive one.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Would like to know how the MX45 compares to the 7 series. No pre-owned MX45's in area for sale currently or else I would go test drive one.

    The M35x is basically the same car just with a bit less power, and those should be easy enough to locate for a test drive. You may also want to consider an A6, or if you want another BMW, a 530/535xi.
  • linhtwulinhtwu Posts: 15
    Two main reasons why I am considering the switch. One, need AWD and secondly want something with more reliability. Don't get me wrong, my 7 has been great but it's a different animal when compared to the Japanese brands ( when it comes to reliability). You constantly need to take care of it. Therefore, a switch to another German vehicle whether it be an Audi or another BMW is not in sight.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Therefore, a switch to another German vehicle whether it be an Audi or another BMW is not in sight.

    Understood. Are you buying new or used? The Infiniti M is completely redesigned for this year, and is considerably better than the car it replaces. If you're shopping used, the year to get would be an '08. You may just want to stick with the M35x. There's plenty of power, and the fuel economy is better than the M45x which gets around 14mpg.
  • kivikivi Posts: 12
    My wife has had several BMW's and has been driving an M35X for 3 years now. She loves it. The BMW's were not AWD and they were crap in the snow. The M35X is fantastic in the snow (we live in Northern Ontario... so lots of snow experience here). Unless you truly don't give a crap about gas mileage I don't see why you would bother with the M45x (or the new M56X). The M35X has had great reviews for years now, and deserves the reputation from our experience with it. Much better value for the car than our BMW's. We liked the BMW's alot... but the snow performance was a big issue for us.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,867
    If I get another Infiniti, it'll be an "x" version - I have the G35 RWD version, and it's like driving on roller skates in the snow. :( A friend has an "x" version, and it's fantastic.

    One positive experience I can share about Infiniti ownership (I've had a few) - some people complain that parts/service can be more expensive, which is fair enough. However, I always say that it's not that expensive if you don't have to repair much! I've put 105K miles on mine, and have yet to have a true repair expense - just maintenance items like brake pads/rotors, oil changes, and some belt replacements. My I30 was the same way.

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  • linhtwulinhtwu Posts: 15
    Buying used. Any reason why you prefer the 08?
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