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Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • ddeliseddelise Posts: 339
    Ok - I recently test drove a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo with the X option package. Am I crazy in considering this? It was pretty impressive. Fit/finish was excellent. Sound system was pretty good too. Had remote start, leather, back-up camera, etc for $35k. It drove nicely and kind of sporty (took an off ramp at about 2x the posted speed with no problems), and merged onto the highway to 80 MPH easily. Overall, a nice ride.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Desert SWPosts: 1,611
    Okay, well how's it going to hold up; i.e., will interior parts fall off? And is its poor mpg going to bleed you slowly?
  • ddeliseddelise Posts: 339
    I don't know how well the interior parts will hold up. I will say that they appear to be of high quality and put together with precision. The interior upon inspection seems to me to be equal to the Genesis, better than the Taurus, equal to the older Infiniti.

    I have only seen a glimpse of the Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland, and that interior is stunning. It compares with Range Rover for about $20k less. It might not be 100% equal, but it is definitely not $20k less nice1

    I am not too concerned with MPG - I only drive about 12k miles/year. So a few MPG's aren't going to kill me one way or another.

    I did receive a lease quote on a $35k Laredo X - $35.5k MSRP. 12k/miles/yr, 36 month, no money out of pocket (meaning no cap cost, all fees including dealer and acquisition fee rolled into lease) for $510/mo including the 7% sales tax. I have not shopped lease payments with other cars and am unsure how that stacks up.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Ok - I recently test drove a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo with the X option package. Am I crazy in considering this?

    From what I've seen, the materials quality is a huge improvement over the typical abysmal Chrysler standards. Reliability is a giant question market though. Chrysler isn't exactly setting the CR charts afire.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,918
    Actually, they probably are... in their offices and in their homes, out of frustration at so many poor ratings. :)

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  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,918
    A reporter is hoping to talk with a new Mercedes C-Class owner, as well as anyone who recently bought a new Mercedes after having owned Lexus models in the past. Thanks for sending your contact information to pr@edmunds.com no later than Tuesday, October 12, 2010.
    Thanks,
    Jeannine Fallon
    Corporate Communications
    Edmunds.com

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  • billodbillod Posts: 31
    Looking for some suggestions here. I have driven several (5 or 6) used 2006 & 2007 A6 quattro sedans with low mileage and they all vibrate on the highway. The salespeople all agreed that there were vibrations. Rebalancing the tires did not solve any of the problems. One salesman said what I was feeling was the quattro sensation. To me, that was BS. Is there something going on with these late model A6 quattro's that I am unaware of? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Bill
  • james27james27 Posts: 433
    Balancing the tires is important (on any car), but on an all-wheel drive car, the tread pattern matching, and the tread depth is also quite important. Audi (and most all-wheel drive vehicles) have some tight tolerances on the differences in tread depth between ALL four tires. If, say, they replace one or several, or if the tread patterns don't match, all bets are off. This is especially important on a mechanical all-wheel drive system as it can always cause the differentials to rotate when they normally only would when changing direction.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    edited October 2010
    It is that kind of answer which illustrates perfectly why car salesman have the reputation they do!
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,918
    A reporter wants to interview people who have trouble using voice-activated car technologies. Please respond to pr@edmunds.com by Tuesday, October 26, 2010 with your comments on the subject.
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  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The salespeople all agreed that there were vibrations. Rebalancing the tires did not solve any of the problems. One salesman said what I was feeling was the quattro sensation. To me, that was BS. Is there something going on with these late model A6 quattro's that I am unaware of?

    I would agree with james, they probably all needed new tires, though a road force balance should've helped, at least temporarily. The only "quattro sensation" that you should feel is some vibration when making turns with the steering at full-lock at 20+mph. That's due to it being a full time AWD system and not a mostly FWD or RWD slip and grip type system as used in most cars.

    I haven't heard anything about A6s having suspension issues that would cause the problem like the early B8 gen A4s.
  • billodbillod Posts: 31
    Hi Guys,
    Thanks for your replys to my 2006 Audi A6 vibration issues.
    The good news is I have not bought this car yet and probably won't. The strange thing is that all 6 of the cars I drove had vibrations at highway speeds of 55-75. One dealer who had replaced the OEM Continental Contact Pro tires with Yokohama tires claimed the vibration may have been because the Yokohama's were unidirectional tires. I asked him why he would put unidirectional tires on a car that did not come from the manufacturer that way and he started to do "a dance." Regardless of one dealers unidirectional tire comments, why would all 6 cars I drove vibrate on the highway. I live in the Northeast, but the roads I drive on were newly paved and very smooth. Is there really a vibration issue with the late model A6's??? I would appreciate your comments. Thanks, Bill
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,206
    Hmmm.. Did you drive all six of them over the same crappy road?

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  • james27james27 Posts: 433
    There should be no issue using unidirectional tires! All that means is that the tires must be mounted in a particular manner, and because of that, can provide better tread clearing (in wet or snowy conditions - most snow tires are unidirectional, too). Only if the tires were not mounted properly (i.e., one or more backwards) would it be an issue. It does often mean that when rotating, you can only go front/rear on the same side, but that isn't always a problem.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Regardless of one dealers unidirectional tire comments, why would all 6 cars I drove vibrate on the highway. I live in the Northeast, but the roads I drive on were newly paved and very smooth. Is there really a vibration issue with the late model A6's???

    Control arm or other suspension issues could do it, but it seems very unlikely that a bunch of different cars would all have an issue like that. How long have the cars you're looking at been sitting on dealer lots and not moving very much? It could be something as simple as flat spots. That happens to my Jag if it sits for awhile.

    My S6 doesn't have any vibration issues, and as I've said, I don't know of any TSBs or anything related to A6 vibration issues.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,067
    One reason I have stayed away from Audis is that most of the people I know who own them are always having some type of nagging problem that they can't seem to fix.

    We also have sub par Audi dealers in my area so part of the problem here may be the service offered. Great cars otherwise, if you can compromise on this issue. I just see no reason to put up with it.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,067
    edited October 2010
    I know how some of you just love Consumer Reports so I will throw this out.

    In a recent survey on reliability, which included over 1 million vehicles and 114 brands, three German Mfgs. were at the bottom. Mercedes, BMW, and Audi.

    The very worst car was a tie between the Audi A6 and the Jag XF. As usual, Acura/Honda, Toyota/Lexus were at the top overall, but the most reliable car was the Porsche Boxster.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • Early 2009 when I was car shopping, I had narrowed things down to Jaguar XF vs Audi A6 3.0T. Lucky for me I ended up with Lexus GS450h instead, apparently!
  • I subscribe to CR both magazine and website and I NEVER saw this BS. In fact, M-B has been rising in reliability on CR's ratings and most cars are now recommended.
    Get your facts straight.
    BTW, CR has NOT been showing reliability for Toyota/Lexus because of their recall and other issues so they cannot be at the top. :mad:
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,067
    edited October 2010
    Don't get excited bob, the info is there, in the latest issue, so just look a little harder. They are referring to overall manufacturer reliability. I would post it for you if I knew how. Maybe someone else could post it?

    I think the German mfgs. reliability has been rising, but they still lag well behind the Asians and even the U.S. mfgs. and most recently they have lost ground, according to CR.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The very worst car was a tie between the Audi A6 and the Jag XF. As usual, Acura/Honda, Toyota/Lexus were at the top overall, but the most reliable car was the Porsche Boxster.

    I wonder how some Boxster owners have felt when the engines exploded in their top rated, ultra reliable cars (see IMS failure). Acura products are awful, and Lexus products are just boring.

    What's average? How many more problems than average is worse than average? CR knows this information, and it would be incredibly useful for them to let the public know it. But they refuse to do so.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,067
    Too bad we can't get a car with Audi styling and driving dynamics and Lexus build quality and reliability.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Too bad we can't get a car with Audi styling and driving dynamics and Lexus build quality and reliability.

    I think the Infiniti M currently provides the best compromise of German style performance and luxury and Japanese quality and reliability. The rest of the lineup isn't quite there yet, nor is their "tuning" division, but they're on their way.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,067
    edited October 2010
    What are your initial thoughts on the Equus? I think it has a shot.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • Actually my subscriptions expired this month, so I missed the details. However, I still get their e-mails and was able to access the overall impressions. Looks like BMW, Audi and M-B have fallen behind again.
    BUT the good news is that the 2010 E350 is better than average.
    Which paper issue contained the information? My earlier post was based on what they said in the April 2010 (annual auto) issue.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    What are your initial thoughts on the Equus? I think it has a shot.

    I think it's boring. What does it do that a CPO LS460 doesn't?
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,067
    I think it is the November issue, and I humbly accept your apology. :)

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,067
    Well obviously you haven't driven one so I assume you mean it just looks boring.

    What does it do that a CPO LS460 doesn't?

    Too early to tell at this point, other than a new car instead of someone else's hand me down. Comparing new to new with the LS, you get a great new car and and BIG sack of money to cart around with you.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,582
    edited November 2010
    "What's average? ....CR knows this information, and it would be incredibly useful for them to let the public know it. But they refuse to do so. "

    "AVERAGE PROBLEM RATES [ % ]
    TROUBLE SPOTS [ year ] 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10

    Engine Major 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 1 <1 <1


    Engine Minor 8 7 6 4 3 2 1 1 1 <1"
    ....etc
    - from CR online.

    [ edit - I have tried now 4 times to line there #s up
    so that they will display as they are in the chart.
    with no luck - sorry... ]
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