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Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,049
    Uh as in it takes one to know one (a misplaced blogger), this comment about the Z06 makes not sense in the context of the LPS cars that, generally speaking, are discussed here. The Corvette may be many things, it may be a bargain. It is NOT an LPS car in any case.

    While were at it, the new Hyundai Azera accelerates from 0-60 in 6.1 seconds and costs about $25K, $28K for the limited model.

    This does not, of course, make the Hyundai an LPS car, despite the fact that it seems to be able to better cars costing double.

    If I want a high performing car, the BMW M5, or the Audi RS4 or even a last generation RS6 seems like a much better way to spend Z06 money (plus.)

    This discussion seems to me to be a non sequitur.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Nice car if you don't mind having the interior room of a 3 series at 5 series prices, the worst trunk in the industry and getting a concussion when you sit erect because your head just went through the roof.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Wow, how belated can you get? I made that post about the Vette on page 3 of the LPS board, more than two years ago.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I really didn't notice the driving position problems that you and others have reported myself. If it weren't for the M, the GS300 would probably be my choice if I was going to buy a car in the segment. The GS430 was a total turn-off though, I just couldn't get past how computer-simulated everything felt for a supposed "performance" car.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Of the 2 GS models, I too preferred the 300. The brakes were better and the non-adaptive steering was what I am accustomed to.
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Posts: 767
    Lexus GS - 2,456
    Infiniti M - 2,178


    Well, I guess the h has saved the day for the GS ( and probably the rest of the year ). I wonder how many GS sold in May were hybrid?
  • bfeng7bfeng7 Posts: 47
    MC,

    Considering what I've seen of your posts and your frequent use of speculation about Bose as fact ... I'm a bit surprised to see you say something nice about Bose. In the end, the audio system is about music, not about bells and whistles or one's preconceived notions of Brand.

    BFENG
    P.S. I work for Bose
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Posts: 767
    Maybe the GS designers intended to build the cars for regular sized people ;) Just kidding. You probably be more happy in an ES or LS room wise. My cousin is 6.2 and he could barely fit in the front seats of my car.
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Posts: 767
    I just couldn't get past how computer-simulated everything felt for a supposed "performance" car.

    Lexusguy, I have not driven the new GS, but I wonder about your statement; is it because it feels different that you don't like it or is it just bad?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Well, I guess the h has saved the day for the GS ( and probably the rest of the year ). I wonder how many GS sold in May were hybrid?

    I dont think those additional sales are GS450hs. They don't list individual GS450h sales, but combined GS430\GS450h sales for May were 516, compared to 1,940 GS300s. In May of '05, Lexus sold 638 GS430s. Even with the h, its down 22% compared to last May.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The GS430 eschews all of the 300's tried and true mechanical bits for wires and computer chips. There are a couple of cars that have gotten electric steering and brakes to "feel" right, but the GS430 is not one of those cars, and the variable-ratio effect just makes things worse. That was the wrong thing to copy from the 5.
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Posts: 692
    Sales of the GS hybrid are minuscule. I think they plan to produce 2,000 for an entire year. My local Lexus dealer's quota for the YEAR is 8. The one they had sitting on the lot stickers for $60,000 and has an EPA of 25/28.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Well that's true-airline and car seats seem to be designed for an "average-sized" person. Lucky him!
    I have the comfort seats in my 5-series but as for legroom, my 6'2" frame can use more seat travel.
    The only vehicle I have tried that really had generous legroom that satisfied me is the BMW X5.
    Not only did I find the GS cabin confining, but my right leg kept hitting the console.
    Maybe in my next life, I will be born regular-sized, hopefully-not in a king-sized world! :surprise:
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Well, if it makes you feel any better, my 545's brakes are almost as bad as the 2006 GS 430's. There is no way you can modulate the brakes to provide a smooth stop, no matter what the speed. Always a little "jerk" at the end.

    I was in NYC recently and rented a Hyundai Sonata at the airport, and I couldn't believe how smooth the brakes were-sort of how BMW brakes used to be-smooth and powerful.
    Drove the 330i last summer and like the 545, found I couldn't stop the car smoothly.

    When they have something good, why can't they leave it alone?

    Next time around, if BMW's brakes are still "jerky", I will move on to a different vehicle which is why this Fall, I will be doing some early research on the new LS.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Sales of the GS hybrid are minuscule. I think they plan to produce 2,000 for an entire year. My local Lexus dealer's quota for the YEAR is 8. The one they had sitting on the lot stickers for $60,000 and has an EPA of 25/28.

    Even if they sell 2,000 a year, I really don't think its going to give them much, if any extra overall sales of GS. I think what the GS450h is going to do is cannibalize sales of the 430. I don't really see a shopper who was otherwise going to buy an E550 or 550i picking Lexus instead because of the 450h.

    I understand that they made the car to say "Look what HSD can do", but I think the execution is flawed (more so than the regular GS), and I still believe not making it AWD was a huge mistake.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,049
    My opinion about Bose has not changed.

    I think about the best in car sound system I have ever heard is in the Infiniti M's if equipped with the technology package.

    Audis system has never been, by me, given a grade less than a B+.

    The virtual inability to find any high end, non mass market retailers who represent Bose products coupled with a 7+ year tour of duty as a program director and music director for FM rock radio stations (where we regularly were disappointed by Bose products to the extent that we chanted "no highs no lows, must be Bose") has pretty much left me with the opinion that Bose makes good to excellent systems for cars. Period.

    I have not heard the new love of Audi's life, from B&O, but for the price they want for this system it better be great and make coffee too, for that matter.

    My Audi A6 has about the second (or third) best system I have ever had the pleasure to have in a car. The Infiniti M, I am "convinced" would have been better.

    When asked, I usually rate the Audi Bose Premium system as an A-.

    I have enjoyed Bose noise cancelling headphones on transoceanic flights.

    I assume the Bose clock radios that I have enjoyed in several upscale hotels are also among the best.

    I can only comment that the apparent marketing and retailing of Bose products seems aimed squarely at the mid priced (and then discounted) market; and, subsequently, my FM mantra is still remembered -- perhaps unfairly.

    BOSE in car systems are generally a clue that the audio in the car will be no less than good and possibly excellent.

    BOSE is a successful company and I do respect what they have done and the aural pleasure they have provided me in several of my cars over the past years.

    The Q7 was quite nice, indeed in this respect.

    I can't see myself paying for the B&O system especially having heard the Infiniti M system.

    :shades:
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I assume the Bose clock radios that I have enjoyed in several upscale hotels are also among the best.


    Nope. Listen to the Henry Kloss designed Cambridge S-Works radio. Better in every way (and of course much cheaper) than the Wave Radios.

    I agree with you that Bose car division generally does decent work, and has done a few amazing systems, such as the Infiniti's, which is a worthy competitor to Lexus\Mark Levinson.

    However, I think the home division's products are simply an affront to all things audiophilia, the very definition of snake-oil. Priced like Bowers & Wilkins, sounds like Radioshack. Your mantra is also quite correct. The "Lifestyle" systems don't go above 13khz (no highs), or below 50hz (no lows), and are made out of plastic and Wal-mart fiberboard (must be Bose). They are also completely MIA from around 200hz-300hz, so no real mids, either.

    If you do go to a mass-market retailer that carries Bose products, ever notice that the Bose stuff is always in its own room or section, where it can't be compared to the Polks and JBLs? This is because Bose is well aware that a direct comparison would make people start to wonder why those $140 JBL bookshelf speakers sound so much better.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    This is your post #38. Isn't it interesting how some time later the 5 series is the leader of the pack even though a short while ago, it placed nearly dead last in a comparo?

    "The RL will probably win the 6-cylinder contest on price/power/performance."

    Did the RL fulfill it's mission?
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,207
    Calling the Paul Harvey icon a "clock radio" is only one of several reasons You are considered entertaining by (I'm assuming here) several of us.
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    Well, hpowders, not all BMWs are like yours. My 97 528, 5 spd, with 144K on the clock, has superb brakes without a hint of "jerkiness". What is amazing to me is that I have been shopping new LPS cars and have yet to find one that I "want" more than my ten year old bimmer. Doesn't have all the latest techo stuff, but it is QUIETER, handles and rides better than than the GS, M, RL, gets better gas mileage, accelerates just about as quickly, and frankly, looks a darn sight better too. I am planning to have a couple of minor items fixed at the next service and will probably just keep it. My wife has a Garmin Nav for her car, so will use that for trips. If Bangle had not done such a disastrous job on the looks of the E60, then it would have been my next car. Given what's out there, I'll keep my E39.
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