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Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • bartalk3bartalk3 Posts: 692
    Can someone post June sales for LPS's?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    BMW 5-Series: 5,199 (+24.3%)
    MB E-class: 4,213 (+0.2%)
    Cadillac STS: 2,565 (-31.0%)
    Lexus GS: 2,191 (-33.9%)
    Infiniti M35/45:
    Audi A6: 1,748 (+10.5%)
    Acura RL: 980 (-37.4%)

    M
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Posts: 692
    Thanks, merc1. GS sales are sinking fast, probably in anticipation of the GS350 coming soon to a dealer near you. RL sales are collapsing, even though they're being discounted as much as $9,000 off sticker, with Acura offering dealers a $3,000 incentive. 5-Series sales are phenomenal (what accounts for that?).
  • sfcharliesfcharlie Posts: 402
    BMW 5-Series: 5,199 (+24.3%)
    MB E-class: 4,213 (+0.2%)
    Cadillac STS: 2,565 (-31.0%)
    Lexus GS: 2,191 (-33.9%)
    Infiniti M35/45: 2,012 (-18.9%)
    Audi A6: 1,748 (+10.5%)
    Acura RL: 980 (-37.4%)
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Strangely, the GS seems to be dragging the M down with it. Or is Audi taking sales away from Infiniti? The A6 vs. M seems to be a very popular choice, on these boards at least.

    The fact that Acura can't sell the RL even at $40K is a seriously problem, and makes it questionable as to whether a lower content\lower price RL will do anything to boost sales. How much lower can they go? The TL is $36K. A free RL with every tire rotation?
  • quemfalaquemfala Posts: 107
    Haven't you heard? Our loony politicians would have us believe that there's a recession and nobody has any money! It's the underground economy fueling the sales. Cash deals! Get in on the action, buy a car! Especially a BMW, where "deals" don't exist.
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Posts: 692
    The Achilles heel of the M35/45 is gas mileage--very poor. That may account for some of the declining sales. Apparently the M35 engine isn't that efficient to begin with, and then they geared it way up for power so that at 60mph the engine is doing 2,500rpm (compared to 1,800-2,000)for most of the competition.
  • calhoncalhon Posts: 87
    Politics aside, combined LPS sales decreased by about 10%.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,069
    Or:

    German LPS sales UP

    Everyone else's LPS sales DOWN.

    What I am about to write is not my opinion -- you may argue with me, and I will attempt to take a counter position, but this does not exactly represent my thoughts.

    Two people talking:

    "How's it going?"

    "Pretty good, how about with you?"

    "Things are OK, but being the in commercial lending industry at this time, bonuses are down a bit, so I had to settle when I got my new car?"

    "Settle? Settle on what. . .?"

    "Well I've always wanted a BMW and probably would've even considered an Audi, but I settled for one of those Infiniti M's."

    "Wow, that's too bad. . ."

    "Tell me about it -- but you know, the Infiniti is a great car, well made, powerful and all the toys -- you should hear the sound system, it makes my home system sound tinny."

    "Gee, sorry you couldn't get your Bimmer."

    "Yea, me too -- next time."

    This, of course is a made up conversation, but it is based on reality -- not exactly a widespread reality, since I can't claim to have heard this kind of conversation more than a couple of times. . . .

    But, here in River City, "everyone" wants a Bimmer -- or so it seems.

    When a person gets a new Lexus or Cadillac or Infiniti or Acura, the responses are always something "is that so" or "well I'll be darned, how do you like it."

    If the person gets a new Bimmer, it is somehow like they were just misted with pheromones.

    Passats may have the lowest ego emotions (or so says their commercials), but "everyone" lusts for the blue propeller on the hood.

    The Americans and the Japanese cars are apparently the ones "we" settle on -- when we "can't get" (for whatever reason) a German model, usually a BMW, Mercedes or Audi (a distant third, there, to be sure, in this country.)

    Don't shoot me, I'm only the piano player. :surprise:
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The Americans and the Japanese cars are apparently the ones "we" settle on -- when we "can't get" (for whatever reason) a German model, usually a BMW, Mercedes or Audi (a distant third, there, to be sure, in this country.)

    In the LPS class, thats probably true. In the entry level class, I'm not so sure. The leaders are the TL and G35, and there are cheaper BMWs and Audis available. If German badge lust were everything, I think a lot more people would be buying stripper 325is and A4 2.0Ts, rather than "settling" on TLs and Gs.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,069
    Relax. . .nothing we say, certainly nothing I say is any cause for defensiveness.

    "Oh yeah?"

    "Yeah!"

    :D
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    While this issue has been beaten to death on this forum, it is worth noting that (apparently) the 07 M will NOT get the newly revised VQ engine. It seems that the "80% new" VQ will only go to the new G, where it is claimed that both power and efficiency will be improved. If so, and if Nissan has done nothing in the current climate (actually going back almost a year) to improve at least the cruising MPG of the M, shame on them, and they will likely take a hit on sales as a result. The new GS350 is likely to be a 20/28 MPG/EPA car vs. the 18/25 of the M, with the real results probably another MPG or two in the GS's favor. Maybe the new VQ would have helped this situation?? Many people on this board have discussed this subject and believe that Nissan could have, a) put a six speed auto in with a higher OD top end to improve cruising MPG; or, b) at least changed the gear ratio in the existing five speed to accomplish some of the same. Not apparent that this happened. If not, too bad. M sales are slipping already and if the 07's don't offer some improvements, particularly in MPG, then expect the sales to slip further. While these are luxo/performance cars, other than the ultra top end machines, no one can totally ignore MPG these days.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Relax. . .nothing we say, certainly nothing I say is any cause for defensiveness.

    I wasn't being defensive, just making an observation. In the LPS class, I'm sure there are many sales that go to team Japan that may otherwise have gone to team Germany had the buyers been able to afford the extra monthly payment. In the midsize and fullsize classes, the Germans are usually more expensive, often substantially so at the LS vs. S level.

    My point was there are cases where the German badge is similarly priced or even more affordable, (Audi A3, for example) and yet there are still plenty of buyers going to Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    BMW 545 V8 automatic 18/26 MPG/EPA.

    Infiniti M 35 V6 automatic 18/25 MPG/EPA.
  • rich545rich545 Posts: 386
    So much for the M being the 5 Series killer huh? 5 Series sales continue to soar while M sales are sliding in what, its second year? I'm sure the M did accomplish a fair number of conquest sales over the German competitors, but certainly in the case of the 5 it has been anything but a killer. I think there is more to it than MPG too. Most buyers that I know in this segment (myself included) don't worry too much about it (whether right or wrong).
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,069
    Credence is further lent to the notion I overheard and presented a few posts back -- if you can't get a German car (for whatever reason), you may tend to "settle" on one of the American or Japanese "wannabee's."

    Like I said, I am not totally convinced that is the entire story -- in my case, I just would not pay $829-ish for an Audi when the M was in the $6's. The moment Audi seemed to get it leasing program in line with its MSRP, well -- I came back to the Audi.

    I guess, come to think of it, with 14 months of hindsight, perhaps I was one of those who was 'bout to settle on a Japanese LPS -- and I even flirted with getting an STS as a "settle" car when the Audi was "outrageously" priced.

    The leasing deals on BMW's from what I can tell are still quite stimulative (at least here in Zinzinnati -- "vas you ever in Zin-zin atti? Ja?!?")
  • sfcharliesfcharlie Posts: 402
    Yes, I believe the fantasy of M as BMW killer was an artifact of a few auto magazine and newspaper reviews. Often in comparative reviews, the cars are selected by price range. The BMW model used is always the lowest HP engine available and the review often says that the BMW would have finished first, if it had more power. So, when the lowest price in class M35/M45 appeared, it did "kill" (in the sense of accelerate much faster) the BMW.

    So many of the articles, when about the new BMW engines, rave about the amazing combination of new (more powerful and refined technology) combined with better mpg. But the comparative reviews tend to give great weight to whichever car can accelerate fastest for the least money.
  • sfcharliesfcharlie Posts: 402
    Where you live might make a difference in how excited you get about the prospect of an Audi "ownership experience." In my area, it's a VW-Audi dealership (in fact, many nearby are) and there is none of that "hey Joe, great to see you, how are the kids, join us at the Audi refreshment bar, etc -- more like "we can get you in for service in two weeks, unless the car has broken down on the side of the road). And the same dealer owns the BMW dealership down the road.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,069
    And hopefully posts like yours are read by Audi (and all the mfrg's, indeed) -- for it is places like this forum where opinions ARE formulated, purchase decisions swayed and attitudes shaped.

    Edmunds in some respects may be a strong player in the perception is reality sweepstakes.

    Now, we have two Audi dealerships in Cincinnati -- and I have only actually purchased from one of them, but I have shopped both.

    I didn't buy from the other dealer for one reason -- they housed both Volvo and Audi sales in the same building and when I went to look at an Audi there, the sales staff (supposedly neutral) spent all their time telling us the advantages of Volvos (over Audis.)

    Of course, these days, only the legacy dealers seem to be able to get away with such "dual dealerships."

    Heck, my Audi dealership was "forever" an Audi Porsche outlet -- no more, nope -- neither Audi nor Porsche will stand for that on a forever ongoing basis these days.

    It kinda makes sense -- one would perhaps have to compete for purchase dollars with the other one.

    Of course the Cadillac dealer is also a Hummer dealer, maybe that gets a pass since they're both GM brands.

    Anyway, if there is not a well educated, marketing aware/savvy, well-read and ear to the ground kind of person who is passionate about Audi's (employee of AoA) monitoring these posts, well -- sign me up.

    Your post, were I Audi of America would be a call to arms to "fix" the situation.

    As the phrase is so often defined: Audi means, "we listen," [sic].

    Never Follow, indeed. :shades:
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,577
    "BMW 545 V8 automatic 18/26 MPG/EPA $60,000+

    Infiniti M 35 V6 automatic 18/25 MPG/EPA" $47,000+
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