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Luxury Performance Sedans



  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,643
    Yeah.. I agree with all that.. but..


    Most Vette buyers are coming from other domestic cars.. They are used to cheap, crappy interiors.. They'll never notice..;-)

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  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    When I was a kid and the first Corvette rolled into town I wanted one. When I came back from serving uncle Sam in '65 I spent the summer riding in one owned by a buddy. Then I got married and the whole Corvette thing went away. I don't believe I've looked at the interior for years but when you see one on the have to look.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,643
    I like them... Would I buy one, if I were spending $50K on a car? No way... I'll take a stripped Boxster any day.. Or an '00 911...


    I can dream, can't I?

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  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    In the 60's, Corvettes actually had nice interiors. As with most other cars, it went down hill in the '70s, and hit absolute rock bottom in the '80s. The digital dash vettes are one of the ugliest interiors ever in a car.
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    I don't hate them, Merc. They just are increasingly irrelevant in the U.S. market - and will suffer the same fate globablly, IMHO.


    I what I hate here, is all of the canned 'framing' arguments that the sales-oriented posters use that babble on about the value of heritage or the foundation patents, or the 0-60 times, none of which applies to 99.99% of driver's day-to-day experiences or to what's being produced any more.


    I hate the baloney. It's rancid. And as long as the conversations here are largely corporate marketing drivel, I'll continue to sound off in my standard way.


    But hey, if MB starts making cars that offer better owneship value than Lexus, Infiniti, or Acura, I'd be first in line to applaud them. But my expectations are that I won't even have to snap my fingers, much less clap. The issue is process technology. "How" to make them is more important now than "what" you make, becuase if you lead in the "how", you can lead the "what". Look at Intel.


    None of the Geman car companies know how to design AND build a modern luxury car anymore. It's true across Europe. There's no substantive automobile industry left in the UK, French makers can't compete here either. Italian makers, excluding custom builders like Ferrari, have been globally irrelevant since about 1985.


    It's only a matter of time for VW/Audi. They'd be much better off focusing on China, where perhaps, they'd make up the losses in volume.
  • liyliy Posts: 47
    For Footie, above: look, feel, fit and finish do still count in the car buying experiences of some!


    See my post: liy, "Acura RL" #5859, 14 Feb 2005 10:47 pm


  • mezecamezeca Posts: 66
    I couldn't agree more!! Sure, the Japanese cars have it down for "overall" reliability, but I really feel that a lot of people put all their emphasis on that as a sole factor.

    I personally find most Japanese cars to be over-engineered(or maybe it's inability) to make a car that has a personality. Japanese cars do everything they are supposed to, but in the process something gets lost in the equation. For some, they will never notice this.

    And this is where I feel German cars really excel. They know how to make a car respond the way a car should. There is something there, you can feel it when you drive. I also like the way they sneak cool features in.

    I'm addicted to MB's tip start!!

    In short, the Germans take second in reliabilty, but first in execution. I just depends which one you favor more.

    Oh, and American cars.... the shift knob on the '05 vette looks to be from the Lumina/Malibu/Cavalier parts bin...... nuff said.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    I dunno about second in reliability, they're more like fourth, after the Japanese, Americans, and Koreans.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I'm surprised you don't like the Corvette, I really am. The XLR you know is different in purpose, though they used the Corvette as the foundation. The Corvette is just a different experience from a 911, a car which I'm also crazy about. I got to drive the new Vette at the GM Drive this past fall and it was a monster. I agree as do just about every magazine that it won't match the precision and build of a Porsche, but it does cost a lot less too.




    I understand where you're coming from really I do. I think we disagree totally because you don't allow a car to be judged on any other criteria and you're clearly in a minority in that thinking. If everyone looked at cars like you do nobody would buy anything other than Japanese, specifically Toyota and Honda. Because frankly Nissan, Mitsu, Isuzu and others from Japan aren't setting the surveys on fire either.


    For you to say that Ferrari, a company that has wiped the floor with Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, BMW and Jaguar in F1 over and over again, a company that sells every single car they build year after year, is irrelevant says a lot. Ferrari is about the most precious brand in the world to the enthusiast. Which is why I can see where you'd think it is irrelevant.


    I find that the group that post about sales the most are Toyota fanatics, not European car fans/owners. Reading the High-End board you'd think that a company's balance sheet and sales reports has something do with the way a car drives. I find that to be the most ridiculous thing I've yet read. It's also boring as all getout.


  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Its cheaper, but it also feels cheaper, so I guess you get what you pay for. What you dont get is a $50K+ interior. One car I'm very excited about is the first world market GT-R. Its quite odd, considering that there are some 8 cars or so competing for the $50K mid-size luxury sedan class, that not a single car challenges Corvette at its own price level. I'm not talking about a mid-engine Porsche with less than 300hp either. I mean a FE,RWD V-8 powered sports car. Theres absolutely nothing. Hopefully the GT-R will come in and shake up the town a bit.
  • jlbljlbl Posts: 1,333
    "None of the German car companies know how to design AND build a modern luxury car anymore. It's true across Europe. There's no substantive automobile industry left in the UK, French makers can't compete here either."


    hmm… Don't forget Rolls Royce is owned, designed and engineered by BMW. (Don't forget British Aston Martin, either.) Not in the U.S. A., but in other world markets French brands like Renault, Peugeot and Citroen have very good shares. And their products are good as well: Citroen wins the World Rally Cup over and over again and Renault is well placed in F1, of course after Ferrari but ahead of most of the other makers.


  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I agree which I why the Corvette gets all the props. I'd like to see a new Supra or GT-R also, but for now for can't touch the Vette on price/hp.


  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I dont think the Supra would be V-8 powered. If Toyota does do another one, I think it will be targeted more at 350Z than GT-R. Another car to watch is the Chrysler Firepower, if it actually gets the green light. Viper chassis, the SRT-8 engine, and Aston Martin junior looks. I could go for that.
  • ckelly14ckelly14 Posts: 105
    Liy: Great post. I also love the Audi's new design and interior, but as there will be no Audi dealership where I'm moving (Savannah, Georgia)I'm looking for alternatives. I will not buy an Audi without a dealership nearby (even though I love my current 2000 A4 1.8T now, but too many initial quality problems.) I will be driving the Lexus GS 300 and Infiniti M35 at special promotion parties Thursday so I'll post my impressions at that time.
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    The Acura dealership in Central Savannah is very good per my sister. She has bought 2 vehicles there: a 1995 Legend and a 2001 RL. She'll be getting one of the new RL's later this year. She says that beside buying a bulletproof car that lasts forever, the people at the dealership are a delight to deal with. When she takes her car in they will give her a loaner or drop her off any where in Savannah she desires plus it's washed and cleaned inside when she picks it up.


    She put 175,000 on the Legend which was then passed to her daughter and is now around 225,000 and still looking and running great. The RL only has about 75,000 and of course, has been problem free.


    Good luck in Savannah!
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Oo but they dont come to the house and GET the car, now do they :)
  • Who needs them to come get me...I'm a big boy and can drive myself the whole ~1 mile to the dealership!!!
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    "Oo but they dont come to the house and GET the car, now do they :)"


    I remember you get this convenient sevice from your dealer. You have to have total trust in his honesty Lexusguy. And if you do that's great!
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    I don't know but it's only about 3 blocks away.


    But the next time I chat with her I'll ask.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I live about 10 minutes from a BMW dealer, so if I bought one from there I wouldnt really care about having to drop off the car. However, to get to my Lexus dealer is an hour and a half to two hours depending on traffic round trip. THAT is more of an issue.
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